Once again Michael and I are on the same wavelength, though my online resource of choice is d20PFSRD.com. If it's not on there, I write it out/CopyPaste it in advance so I don't have to go scanning through a PDF during the session looking for something.
The exception of course is the APs - I run them straight out of the PDF.
I don't own a single thing of Pathfinder in non-digital form, and really don't see a reason I'd need to.
When people complain about sluggishness of the PDFs, they're not talking about the PDF of the books or the AP. They're talking about the "interactive map" which uses layers so you can turn off grids and remove such things as secret doors and the like. Unfortunately, this has the effect of turning the PDF into a glacier.
I disagree - some of the older products are horrendous the newer stuff including the interactive maps aren't so much. I have 32 gig of memory so it's not really a memory issue - I find PDF X-change viewer works with the pdfs much better, but has issues with some formatting and images so I have to resort to adobe if (for example) I want to print something.
The text is funky in the older stuff as well - I copy\paste the text into DM's familiar for help running dungeons - and while the newer stuff (like mummy's mask for instance) has been pretty much flawless - going back to say shattered star cut/paste would get lots of issues, more like adobe had to OCR the text.
I'm guessing they've switched tools recently - resulting in better PDF's.
Ever since adventure path number one I have never used/downloaded any of the free pdf's.
Gods Above, I must have well over a hundred of the little things...somewhere...in the dark depths of the internet...being ignored...crying out endless tears...forever never downloaded...
Old School to the core...PAPER FIRST...LAST...ALWAYS!!!!!
I ALWAYS prefer print copies.
I still have copies of obscure RPGs from the late 70s/early 80s that I played when I was a teenager. I don't have to worry about technology changes, hard drive crashes, etc., and they have resale value (though I have never sold any of my RPG materials).
The only time I have ever purchased PDFs is when there was no print equivalent, and even then only if I really, really want the material. I have skipped a lot of RPGs and supplements over the years because I couldn't get them in print.
I don't have to worry about technology changes, hard drive crashes, etc...
Can't you just print them out, and keep the printouts in a safe place?
Can't you just print them out, and keep the printouts in a safe place?
Of course. But then you have the cost of printing them, and they still have no resale value.
If you look at my collection of RPGs (started in the late 70s), it has a higher overall resale value now than what I paid for everything originally, even adjusted for inflation.
Can't you just print them out, and keep the printouts in a safe place?Of course. But then you have the cost of printing them, and they still have no resale value.
If you look at my collection of RPGs (started in the late 70s), it has a higher overall resale value now than what I paid for everything originally, even adjusted for inflation.
but why on earth would you sell them! anyone that collects books will never sell them (says the guy with 6 full bookshelves) so please don't make the "resale value" argument.
just admit you love the books, they're easier to read in your hands and your eyes don't feel like dried out husks after reading them for a few hours:)we all love books in one form or another that why we're all here in the first place:-)
Speaking strictly for myself, with some PDFs I get a HUGE problem with loading time when I need to scroll though a PDF or jump to a bookmark, even if it's just one page away. That is a massively inconvenient lag time during gameplay. This is probably a problem with my current version of Adobe reader, and I'm planning to replace my PC this year, but until then it's a hassle.
On my Windows 8 machine I have downloaded SumatraPDF to view my pdf files, and it is so much quicker to view the actual pdfs! I can actually view my pdfs and look at different pages at a much more reasonable time.
Speaking strictly for myself, with some PDFs I get a HUGE problem with loading time when I need to scroll though a PDF or jump to a bookmark, even if it's just one page away. That is a massively inconvenient lag time during gameplay. This is probably a problem with my current version of Adobe reader, and I'm planning to replace my PC this year, but until then it's a hassle.On my Windows 8 machine I have downloaded SumatraPDF to view my pdf files, and it is so much quicker to view the actual pdfs! I can actually view my pdfs and look at different pages at a much more reasonable time.
Thank you. I will give that a try this weekend.
21st century digital boy here. You are not the only one.
Pan, do you know how to read? Do you own a lot of toys?
21st century digital boy here. You are not the only one.Pan, do you know how to read? Do you own a lot of toys?
well I'm goin' for a walk, not the after dinner kind. i'm gonna use my hands, and i'm gonna use my mind. i'm gonna build a wall, independent and exempt. all alone i'll be an empire! with no mortgage and no rent
which is Both my kids favorite song (and band actually)
I still have a very strong preference for a physical print over PDF. For me, and this is by no means indicative of anyone else, I see PDFs as only being useful if you run a lot of skype/virtual table-top games rather than regular face-to-face-all-in-the-same-physical-location table-top games.
In any case I am very BIASED against digital media in games, as the only time digital media devices are allowed to come out at a game I run is to take emergency phone calls, or game breaks to order pizza. For all of the convenience of the widgets, PDFs, virtual die rollers, and other digital gaming aids, it all comes across as more of a distraction to me and destroys any sense of mood or tone I am attempting to create...especially when you here the DIGITAL DING of some type of notification. Again, that's me and indicative of anyone else. My current group has taken calling me Herr Ludite because of my perspective.
I still have a very strong preference for a physical print over PDF. For me, and this is by no means indicative of anyone else, I see PDFs as only being useful if you run a lot of skype/virtual table-top games rather than regular face-to-face-all-in-the-same-physical-location table-top games.
In any case I am very BIASED against digital media in games, as the only time digital media devices are allowed to come out at a game I run is to take emergency phone calls, or game breaks to order pizza. For all of the convenience of the widgets, PDFs, virtual die rollers, and other digital gaming aids, it all comes across as more of a distraction to me and destroys any sense of mood or tone I am attempting to create...especially when you here the DIGITAL DING of some type of notification. Again, that's me and indicative of anyone else. My current group has taken calling me Herr Ludite because of my perspective.
I understand what you are saying and to a certain extent I agree with you. I wish I had a physical copy of all the books when the game is at my house.
Unfortunately, that would have me lugging at least 2 heavy backpacks worth of crap every time the game is not at my house OR the other folks will each have to lug a couple of backpacks worth to my house. We just own too much stuff and it is not all the same stuff.As far as during the game electronic stuff. Some of it I vastly approve and some annoys the heck out of me.
We have a guy that loves the hugely multi attack ginsu builds. greater 2 weapon fighting, high crit range, energy damage, etc... Not a problem except he is pretty slow at basic math. Plus he knows he makes lots of mistakes so he does everything twice to check it. Then if there is a discrepancy he does it a third time.
He made his own dice roller on a spreadsheet. Full attack. Click. Done. I am very much in favor of that one.
Another guy has a die roller on his phone. My problem with that is that means he has the phone in hand. He is constantly getting, checking, replying to text messages. Or he gets bored while not his turn, starts surfing, then is not prepared when the action comes back to him.
That one drives me nuts.
Even though they are nearly the same thing, one helps and the other hinders.
Being able to show pictures and maps that don't need to actually be color printed or drawn out is sometimes very helpful. Waiting while pages load is not.
but why on earth would you sell them! anyone that collects books will never sell them (says the guy with 6 full bookshelves) so please don't make the "resale value" argument.
just admit you love the books, they're easier to read in your hands and your eyes don't feel like dried out husks after reading them for a few hours:)
we all love books in one form or another that why we're all here in the first place:-)
Those are all valid reasons, too.
Though I have no plans on reselling them, that doesn't mean I never will. I have 15 bookshelves with five shelves each in my home, stuffed to the brim, many piles of books outside of them, and a good 20 big plastic totes full of books in storage. About 10 shelves (roughly two bookshelves) are RPG materials. I have already started whittling down the non-RPG stuff. If I decide to whittle down my RPG collection, the Pathfinder books will probably be first, since it's not my favorite system in the world. I mainly GM/play it because it's hard to find people in my area who are open to other games.
In the end, though, if my choice is between paying X amount of dollars for a print version of something, or slightly less for an electronic copy, I will always go with the print version. If the electronic version was significantly cheaper I might buy it in some instances, but it would have to be at least 80% less than the cost of a print copy.
In any case I am very BIASED against digital media in games, as the only time digital media devices are allowed to come out at a game I run is to take emergency phone calls, or game breaks to order pizza. For all of the convenience of the widgets, PDFs, virtual die rollers, and other digital gaming aids, it all comes across as more of a distraction to me and destroys any sense of mood or tone I am attempting to create...especially when you here the DIGITAL DING of some type of notification. Again, that's me and indicative of anyone else. My current group has taken calling me Herr Ludite because of my perspective.
I tend towards the same approach.
Ironically, though, I am using a laptop in the Pathfinder campaign I play right now. Given the number of newbies in the group, the classes they have selected, and some things specific to the campaign, a LOT of book referencing is necessary. For the sake of speeding things up, the GM asked me if I would bring my laptop with me, partially because I have Hero Lab loaded, and partially so that I could do quick d20pfsrd.com searches on behalf of the other players (he has one for the same reason). He knew I wouldn't spend time checking email or browsing websites, and I don't - I don't even glance at the screen unless asked to do so. It bugs me a bit to have it even sitting on the table, but it has been useful in this particular case.
In general, though, I have found that having electronic devices on the table is a distraction to most players, so I typically don't allow them. That might seem surprising to some, given that I am a programmer, but I'm not a fan of using electronics in everything in life.