The "Kirthfinder" home rules (discussed on these forums) have simple, martial, and exotic proficiency levels for every weapon, including the bastard sword. In many cases, it is worth the feat for EWP for a specific weapon if you can fit it in.
I think those WP rules are far superior to the legacy proficiency rules.
I feel like mentioning that "attribute gates" don't actually do anything. people already wanting to invest in melee will already have high strength, with the possible exception now of swashbucklers, thus the status quo actually does not change, except that anyone and everyone who wants to use a 1-1/2er now can for free. the prereq is barely one, when it is something already needed for a proper build to use that item.
thats the actual intent.
by today's standards maybe, but people back in the day were much more active and thus had higher endurance and higher strength. I mean imagine having to walk to your local grocery store, and you don't have a refrigerator, just some salted meat in your ice box(if you live in a northern climate).Requiring higher stats to wield certain weapons and/or armor is just another way to weaken martials.
If you want to encourage players to choose a certain option, it is better to boost said option than nerf other options because if you take that route you need to nerf EVERY other option equally to make it fair.
Furthermore, requiring more than 13 in a stat is requiring someone to be exceptionally above average in that attribute. Remember, a 10 is not low, it is average. An average man can swing a sword and wear armor.
an average man CANNOT wear armor and fight swinging a a full sized longsword one hand.
anyone real life was above average strength and more physically fit than common/average men.Fighting in full armor with heavy blades is not an 'average' thing to do.
Also not true.
Earlier humans in history were smaller than modern man, just visit historical ships or homes and look how doorways were constructed, with much smaller people in mind.
Have you ever seen the TV show "Full Metal Jousting"
I watched it live about a month ago and talked to the Host/founder of the Knights of Valor.
He explains at all his exhibitions how jousting is a sport, and the knights are athletes that have to train, workout etc.
But on average, the common man of today his larger, healthier, stronger and more long lived than his counterpart of when men actually wore metal armor and swung swords.
While in a fantasy setting, the common human more readily resembles the capability and health (and size) of a modern day human he or she might actually be played by, the same individual is not very likely to be table to wield these weapons or don this armor without the rigors of working out and preparing to do so.
There is no real world comparison, at any time in history, where you can say a "common man" un prepared, untrained and having never before done so, could fight with sword and armor by virtue of natural talent and ability alone.
So I'm alittle confused here. Where rules did we come up with or what ever else we have decided to use with the weapon sets or setting them apart. I ask because this is something i would like to add to my home brewed game i have all planned out.
by today's standards maybe, but people back in the day were much more active and thus had higher endurance and higher strength. I mean imagine having to walk to your local grocery store, and you don't have a refrigerator, just some salted meat in your ice box(if you live in a northern climate).Requiring higher stats to wield certain weapons and/or armor is just another way to weaken martials.
If you want to encourage players to choose a certain option, it is better to boost said option than nerf other options because if you take that route you need to nerf EVERY other option equally to make it fair.
Furthermore, requiring more than 13 in a stat is requiring someone to be exceptionally above average in that attribute. Remember, a 10 is not low, it is average. An average man can swing a sword and wear armor.
an average man CANNOT wear armor and fight swinging a a full sized longsword one hand.
anyone real life was above average strength and more physically fit than common/average men.Fighting in full armor with heavy blades is not an 'average' thing to do.
Also not true.
Earlier humans in history were smaller than modern man, just visit historical ships or homes and look how doorways were constructed, with much smaller people in mind.
Have you ever seen the TV show "Full Metal Jousting"
I watched it live about a month ago and talked to the Host/founder of the Knights of Valor.
He explains at all his exhibitions how jousting is a sport, and the knights are athletes that have to train, workout etc.But on average, the common man of today his larger, healthier, stronger and more long lived than his counterpart of when men actually wore metal armor and swung swords.
While in a fantasy setting, the common human more readily resembles the capability and health (and size) of a modern day human he or she might actually be played by, the same individual is not very likely to be table to wield these weapons or don this armor without the rigors of working out and preparing to do so.
There is no real world comparison, at any time in history, where you can say a "common man" un prepared, untrained and having never before done so, could fight with sword and armor by virtue of natural talent and ability alone.
actually our top is just higher due to technology, and our size increased due to better overall food, due to technology.
the Amish and other people who temporarily forgo technology for a period of time become significantly more fit. Your Health is 90% exercise and 10% what you eat, unfortunately big biz can't sell exercise, so they'd like you to think otherwise, but human are designed to metabolize anything we throw in our mouths.
oh, and let's not forget the weak died, not went to the hospital.
and I'm just arguing if someone picked up a bastardsword, they could swing it, while badly(because they probably have proficiency in no martial or exotic weapons), with one hand.
also, at the post prior to this, then why not simply do away with the prereq? a prereq that is there simply so something has a prereq isn't actually a prereq.
I like BAB much better as it makes the longsword better at lower levels, but then more skilled people can advance to the bastard sword.
The "Kirthfinder" home rules (discussed on these forums) have simple, martial, and exotic proficiency levels for every weapon, including the bastard sword. In many cases, it is worth the feat for EWP for a specific weapon if you can fit it in.
I think those WP rules are far superior to the legacy proficiency rules.
I absolutely love the idea of this, but worry about the complexity.
I also like the idea of adding a few more weapon properties that further distinguish existing weapons. Keep the ideas coming, folks.
Kinda yeah.
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The "Kirthfinder" home rules (discussed on these forums) have simple, martial, and exotic proficiency levels for every weapon, including the bastard sword. In many cases, it is worth the feat for EWP for a specific weapon if you can fit it in.
I think those WP rules are far superior to the legacy proficiency rules.
that's the way to go. i'd like to get a look at those.
to share:
I had a game that lasted about 5 sessions before breaking apart where i had the damage of the weapon a function of both Proficiency and Wield. since BAB is essentially upside-down Thac0, it would translate roughly into:
full BAB = A, 3/4 BAB = B, 1/2 BAB = C
damage specs below follow A/B/C order, depending on who is using the weapon (a fighter, rogue, or wizard, for example)
Two-Handed: d12/d10/d8
One-Handed: d10/d8/d6
Light: d8/d6/d4
to accomodate character size (such as Halfling or Half-giant) i used bonuses/penalties, instead of changing the base dice
thus, the same sword would deal a higher or lower die of damage depending on who was wielding it
if i were to integrate this into pathfinder (which i am not), the difference in weapons would be their relative costs, weights, damage types, range, critical specs, and special qualities - with emphasis on the last two
that's the way to go. i'd like to get a look at those.
Click on "Chapter 6 - Equipment" and scroll down past the armor.
Here's my suggested alteration to the handedness rules:
Heavy is there to distinguish between the (mostly martial) two-handers that are big, heavy, and clumsy if you...Light, One-Handed, and Two-Handed Melee Weapons: This designation is a measure of how much effort it takes to wield a weapon in combat. It indicates whether a melee weapon, when wielded by a character of the weapon's size category, is considered a light weapon, a one-handed weapon, or a two-handed weapon.
Light: A light weapon is used in one hand. It is easier to use in one's off hand than a one-handed weapon is, and can be used while grappling (see Combat). Add the wielder's Strength modifier to damage rolls for melee attacks with a light weapon if it's used in the primary hand, or half the wielder's Strength bonus if it's used in the off hand. Using two hands to wield a light weapon gives no advantage on damage; the Strength bonus applies as though the weapon were held in the wielder's primary hand only.
An unarmed strike is always considered a light weapon.
One-Handed: A one-handed weapon can be used in either the primary hand or the off hand. Add the wielder's Strength bonus to damage rolls for melee attacks with a one-handed weapon if it's used in the primary hand, or 1/2 his Strength bonus if it's used in the off hand. Using two hands to wield a one-handed weapon gives no advantage on damage; the Strength bonus applies as though the weapon were held in the wielder's primary hand only.
Two-Handed: Two hands are required to use a two-handed melee weapon effectively. Apply 1-1/2 times the character's Strength bonus to damage rolls for melee attacks with such a weapon.
Hand-and-a-half: A wielder may choose to treat these weapons as one- or two-handed. If treating the weapon as one-handed, wielders with a strength modifier less than +2 take a -2 penalty to attack rolls.
Heavy: Treat these weapons as two-handed, except that wielders with a strength modifier less than +2 take a -2 penalty to attack rolls.
I like it and have put a little thought into it.
-light and one-handed weapon categories would contain the same weapons they currently do
-hand-and-a-half weapons would be all non-reach, non-double two handed weapons that are not classified as heavy.
-two handed would be all reach and/or double weapons that are not classified as heavy
-heavy weapons would be as follows
-earth breaker
-great sword
-great ax
-heavy flail
-ogre hook
-halberd
-horse chopper
-scythe
(weapons pulled from d20pfsrd, so might not have all of them)
Is screwing over martial characters who've taken strength damage/penalties so there combat style isn't possible anymore instead of simply less effective also your intent.I feel like mentioning that "attribute gates" don't actually do anything. people already wanting to invest in melee will already have high strength, with the possible exception now of swashbucklers, thus the status quo actually does not change, except that anyone and everyone who wants to use a 1-1/2er now can for free. the prereq is barely one, when it is something already needed for a proper build to use that item.thats the actual intent.
similar to how a caster looses its most powerful spells if it takes a hit to its casting stat... YES.
I know this adds a caveat that martials did not have before, but martials gain so much more than can potentially lose. By adding the potential for a martial wield an oversized weapon effortlessly through sheer force of strength, without use of feats, you are opening many more opportunities.
I like it and have put a little thought into it.
-light and one-handed weapon categories would contain the same weapons they currently do
-hand-and-a-half weapons would be all non-reach, non-double two handed weapons that are not classified as heavy.
-two handed would be all reach and/or double weapons that are not classified as heavy
-heavy weapons would be as follows
-earth breaker
-great sword
-great ax
-heavy flail
-ogre hook
-halberd
-horse chopper
-scythe(weapons pulled from d20pfsrd, so might not have all of them)
Forgot to add waraxe (same stats as dwarven waraxe) to martial hand-and-a-half list (essentially making the standard dwarven waraxe obsolete). And because bastard sword defaults to the martial hand-and-a-half list, EWP bastard sword is no longer a necessary feat.