Yeah, I feel pretty secure in saying that Damiel is Skull and Shackle's Lini (OP character). Bonus, however, is that he's less boring to play for most.
His Wisdom is not great, so those types of checks are not going to go well. I haven't had to deal with that much with him yet, but I threw an Int Stat Stone in his deck and if he has to discard some cards to mitigate structural damage, he has a cure spell and I've got Oloch ready to burn some armor for the check or to heal him after the check as needed. Plus Jirelle to mitigate a bit of the damage as well. I think he'll be fine.
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I don't have my cards and stuff handy right now, but isn't Damiel pretty bad at handling ship encounters? I know he's got super Craft so he's great at fixing ships when they get wrecked but I recall he's not very good at keeping them from getting wrecked.
I'm going to start giving this response to every question about what Damiel can do. Maybe stuff as well, but, I mean, come on...
Potion of Heroism.
He can aid or bless on top of that, never mind statstones or potential other potions.
I'll say this on Oloch and his effectiveness as a character (at the start, of course. He can certainly grow):
Over the weekend we started S&S and played through the first two adventures. 2 players, 4 characters. I took Oloch & Damiel. And while Oloch was definitely helpful to have, he is a fairly boring character in the early going. I spent most of my time with him focusing on healing others rather than exploring at all. I probably explored on about half of Oloch's turns. It mostly came down to bad luck getting any of his 4 weapons into my hand and having to discard them for high checks when I did have them. But with a hand size of only 4 cards and not wanting to trash my armor for no reason since it can either be a cure or a +1 to any check there was more than once that Oloch simply reset his hand and passed on to Jirelle (Jirelle & Alahazra were the other two characters). It didn't bother me at all because I had Damiel to play with as well, but if I was just playing Oloch it would have been fairly frustrating. I think that hand size boost will have to be my first power feat, just to get weapons into his hand quicker. I usually used my armor for the +1s and I couldn't care less about getting those back in my hand at the start of my turn.
Damiel, on the other hand, is just sick. If I was trying to show a new player how fun the game is, I'd give them a Damiel deck and let them go to town.
You can't use his armor for +1's. That power uses only blessings or weapons. His heal uses blessings or armors.
Overall, I like Oloch conceptually (the fact that we have 2 players, 3 characters each definitely helps), but in practice he is horrendously slow. There has never been a character that needed increased hand size and card feat: blessing the way he needs them. I am simultaneously hoping for and dreading his first power feat, since he needs them so much, but I'm going to have such a hard time choosing it (+2, potentially stacking, to any check, with negligible cost, is just so good).
I agree with Orbis's grades, overall: Combat B+, Utility A-, Exploration F-- (Frankly, the exploration is so bad it hurts his combat. If you can't find enemies, your combat ability is worthless). I'm very excited to see what he looks like at higher levels. Once I've had time to sculpt his feats and deck list, he might be a real powerhouse eventually.
I think they should introduce the ability at some point in the AP to simultaneously gain and lose a card feat that can alter the original deck list. IDK how they'd implement it exactly, but there are a ton of characters that I would like so much better if I could take one more of a certain card type over a different card type.
And yes, the majority of the time its armors that I want to drop.
That's one of the things I'd dread most about Oloch. Even with all of his abilities, three armors is just too much, in my opinion. Considering his abilities, I might even like him at two armors (maybe)... but three? Ugh.
You can't use his armor for +1's. That power uses only blessings or weapons. His heal uses blessings or armors.
I could not have misread the card and misplayed the power much worse than I did :-)
Having said that, much of what I said still stands. I'm still taking that hand size boost first and more weapons with my first card feat. He is painful for me to play otherwise.
You can't use his armor for +1's. That power uses only blessings or weapons. His heal uses blessings or armors.I could not have misread the card and misplayed the power much worse than I did :-)
Having said that, much of what I said still stands. I'm still taking that hand size boost first and more weapons with my first card feat. He is painful for me to play otherwise.
I'm a bit surprised you're taking weapon over blessing. They both can be used to buff, and I always seem to end up flooded with weapons each game.
I agree, I see little reason not to max blessings ASAP with Oloch. Especially compared to weapons.
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I had a big internal debate about what card feat to take first for S&S Lini. It was a bit of a toss-up between weapon, spell, and ally. Weapons give her more combat ability because having one weapon in the deck is a very unreliable start, though it's pretty easy to cycle through to get at it. Spells are always nice, and allies are reusable extra explores. Ended up going with ally. We'll see how it goes in deck 2.
I like to wait and get blessings slots in deck 3+ so I can get the non-Gods blessings of my choice.
I had a big internal debate about what card feat to take first for S&S Lini. It was a bit of a toss-up between weapon, spell, and ally. Weapons give her more combat ability because having one weapon in the deck is a very unreliable start, though it's pretty easy to cycle through to get at it. Spells are always nice, and allies are reusable extra explores. Ended up going with ally. We'll see how it goes in deck 2.
I like to wait and get blessings slots in deck 3+ so I can get the non-Gods blessings of my choice.
Given that I like to play her as a spellcaster and so don't use weapons, I usually take an ally feat, then max her spells, then take more allies.
EDIT: Facepalm. I read that as RotR Lini, not S&S. Which I thought was weird to be commented on at this point, but still. Well. I guess it would depend on what role you want her to fulfill. I see her as pretty much support on a stick, so I'd take spells, myself.
I'm basing my pick of weapons on what cards I wasn't getting that I needed. I didn't have trouble getting blessings in my hand, and once they were there they stayed there. I only saw weapons three times in two games. We'll see how I feel after I play Oloch correctly this weekend.
With my AP2 delayed, I started a second party (Damiel, Alahazra, Liranne and Seltyiel). I expected Damiel to be good, but he is just flat out ridiculous. Once you get a Tot Flask or two and Jack Scimshaw his card manipulation is amazing. And that;s just from the initial set. It will depend on the cards in future APs, but I would expect Damiel to become the most powerful character that we have seen thus far.
Alahazra met expectations. She is strong out of the box and gives unprecedented scouting ability. Her powers don't grow much until AP4, but that doesn't matter much because of her initial strength.
Lirianne underwhelmed. Yeah, she does fine at combat but tossing cards to support other battles is hard with the small hand size, and I kept earning for her to have survival on her skill list. I loved Harsk, so I thought I would enjoy the gunslinger, but have not so far. Perhaps with a few more feats under my belt.
Seltyiel confirmed all of my fears and basis against him. His skill set is limited, his card selection uninspired. Yes, his combat scores get ridiculous after a few feats, but he isn't even that strong in combat unless you are pitching his whole hand (and even then, it needs to be the right hand).
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Seltyiel confirmed all of my fears and basis (sic) against him. His skill set is limited, his card selection uninspired. Yes, his combat scores get ridiculous after a few feats, but he isn't even that strong in combat unless you are pitching his whole hand (and even then, it needs to be the right hand).
I take it you haven't hit the Aqueous Orb spell yet. If you go Spellblade, he'll be swapping weapons and spells into and out of his discard pile, and recharging spells from discard, and running roughshod over any and all bad guys.
Alahazra + Lirianne + Seltyiel = an effective combo, if played right
Seltyiel confirmed all of my fears and basis (sic) against him. His skill set is limited, his card selection uninspired. Yes, his combat scores get ridiculous after a few feats, but he isn't even that strong in combat unless you are pitching his whole hand (and even then, it needs to be the right hand).I take it you haven't hit the Aqueous Orb spell yet. If you go Spellblade, he'll be swapping weapons and spells into and out of his discard pile, and recharging spells from discard, and running roughshod over any and all bad guys.
Alahazra + Lirianne + Seltyiel = an effective combo, if played right
Alahazra + literally any two characters is an effective combo. She carries teams.
Are you kidding? Potion of Glibness and he just naps the whole scenario away. :D
Seltyiel confirmed all of my fears and basis (sic) against him. His skill set is limited, his card selection uninspired. Yes, his combat scores get ridiculous after a few feats, but he isn't even that strong in combat unless you are pitching his whole hand (and even then, it needs to be the right hand).I take it you haven't hit the Aqueous Orb spell yet. If you go Spellblade, he'll be swapping weapons and spells into and out of his discard pile, and recharging spells from discard, and running roughshod over any and all bad guys.
Alahazra + Lirianne + Seltyiel = an effective combo, if played right
Alahazra + literally any two characters is an effective combo. She carries teams.
Well, yes, but I think the point is that she's particularly good at mitigating the weaknesses of narrow characters (like Seltyiel & Lirianne) who suffer the most from blind exploration into things they can't handle. Being one-note isn't nearly as problematic if you can very often hit that note on your first explore for the turn. Alahazra doesn't add nearly as much to a Jirelle/Ranzak type team that already does fine just exploring into everything. Her bumping some C-tier characters up to B-tier seems relevant for party selection for anyone who feels like trying those characters, even if you'd be better off choosing A-tier characters in the first place.
Although, if the next AD or two are still missing utility spells to justify being an arcane caster, I may have to rethink whether Seltyiel has a payoff worth suffering through his early game (like Oloch and some other hand-size-4 characters appear to have eventually).
Alahazara makes everyone better; and yes, specialized characters will benefit more from her than generalists. But that's a function of Alahazra, not of Seltyiel. Any character that excels at combat would benefit similarly, and I think that all other combat focused characters bring more to the table than Seltyiel.
I'm not quite getting where Lirianne would ever struggle. She has solid dexterity, excellent ranged combat, access to perception based off the best wisdom die possible and her constitution/fortitude is ok. Her only weakness is her lack of strength and her opening 4 card hand... Strength you can't do much to fix, but I don't think I've been in a position with her where I have had to use strength and with her first power going to a five card hand she's carried her weight for me.
In S&S I value wisdom, battle skills (be them melee, dex or ranged based) and con/fort in that order. It's nice if your dexterity isn't awful as well. Lirianne is fully capable of whatever comes, I think.
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Her poor strength is why I made sure I dropped enough support cards to get the Pearl of Wisdom. I don't play her anymore (Damiel, 'nuff said), but when I did, I always seemed to have that pearl when I needed to use strength. For combat though, she should never need to use her strength, since she can shuffle / bury her other cards instead of her guns.
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I just wanted to celebrate the fact that my gamestore had all the class decks, the character add-on deck, and AP2 when I went Friday.
That is all.
I just wanted to celebrate the fact that my gamestore had all the class decks, the character add-on deck, and AP2 when I went Friday.
That is all.
Nice! But the million dollar question: Did they have any promo cards? Many stores, including my local store, seem to be having trouble getting the promos. Now I really don't regret that I decided to subscribe.
In other news, a friend and I played our first OP scenario last night as a two character team. We had played the base game a couple times before, first with Damiel and Lini, then with Damiel and Feiya. The first game we both died on the first scenario (Lini First, then my Damiel). Second game we won the first scenario, but both died during the second (first my Damiel, then Feiya). Lots of bad luck and I didn't build my Damiel with Potion of Glibness (I won't be making that mistake again!).
Anyway, I'm happy to report that we won our first OP scenario with the shorty duo of my Lem (halfling bard, S&S) and his Tontelizi (gnome fighter). I was amazed at how wonderfully I was recharging my spells. I don't think I failed a single recharge check. Big difference from when I was playing Damiel. I couldn't recharge a spell to save my life! I mean literally, the fact that I couldn't recharge my Cure spell got us killed. Anyway, we both had a great deal of fun and I went ahead and had my local store order three more class decks for me so I'll have all seven come next weekend! Now I'll just have to work a little harder at generating more interest in the game.
I think I'm going to just focus on playing OP scenarios with other people, playing as many different characters as I can. I'll just solo the base game's adventure path, with Damiel of course (complete with Potion of Glibness). Should be fun. Hopefully I don't die.
Nice! But the million dollar question: Did they have any promo cards? Many stores, including my local store, seem to be having trouble getting the promos. Now I really don't regret that I decided to subscribe.I just wanted to celebrate the fact that my gamestore had all the class decks, the character add-on deck, and AP2 when I went Friday.
That is all.
I don't know if they had any. Things were hectic at the time, I didn't think to ask and he wouldn't have thought to offer.
I know that now. But I built him with the suggested deck list. Which is really where I went wrong. Any Damiel I decide to play now will replace the Rum Bottle with Glibness.
Difference in our case, I guess, was we didn't have the Character Add-On deck, which meant most of his card options weren't available and we had to take Potion of Glibness. I might've skipped it, if there were other options.
I would advise people to stay away from Damiel until they get the add on deck. Without it you undercut your options.
I didn't feel most of them were necessary. I wouldn't waste my deck on blast stones (especially not when you can discard any alchemical thing for a 2d6 and heal it back) and Damiel doesn't have much use for Potion of Lucubration. The alchemical bombs are nice, but I played without them and we pulled through. :D We proxied them for a scenario or two, but I wouldn't have kept them once nicer items started coming around anyway.
A pistol and powder flask got my Damiel through most things just fine.
I would advise people to stay away from Damiel until they get the add on deck. Without it you undercut your options.
I mean, his character card is in the add-on deck... you're not even supposed to play him without it.
I'm not quite getting where Lirianne would ever struggle. She has solid dexterity, excellent ranged combat, access to perception based off the best wisdom die possible and her constitution/fortitude is ok. Her only weakness is her lack of strength and her opening 4 card hand... Strength you can't do much to fix, but I don't think I've been in a position with her where I have had to use strength and with her first power going to a five card hand she's carried her weight for me.
In S&S I value wisdom, battle skills (be them melee, dex or ranged based) and con/fort in that order. It's nice if your dexterity isn't awful as well. Lirianne is fully capable of whatever comes, I think.
Lirianne suffers a similar problem to Valeros: low hand size, and a lack of non-combat utility. Her combat checks aren't even that great, especially since guns tend to be rather weak if you're not using your bury power.
Her wisdom is a great asset though; probably the most useful stat overall, and she's killer with the Pearl of Wisdom. She's also got the advantage of being able to cycle through her limited cards by shuffling them into her deck to help with combat checks. The problem with that, however, is that you don't get to draw back up until the end of your next turn.
Overall she isn't bad, but I'd definitely put her in the bottom half of the characters in terms of usefulness.
Hey, I wasn't about to let printing delays stop me from playing the best character.
Hey, I wasn't about to let printing delays stop me from playing the best character.
*Stiffens*
She's also got the advantage of being able to cycle through her limited cards by shuffling them into her deck to help with combat checks.
I just wanted to add that shuffling is a double edged sword. With a small hand size and the fact she constantly will shuffle her deck, you lose all control over what you will draw. If you compare her to Harsk (who has a similar ability, but it operates on a recharge), Harsk is more reliable. He will cycle his cards and gets to the point where he knows what he is drawing in the second half of the game. Lirianne offers no such surety. Sure, that could be good; maybe you will draw your best cards every turn. But PACG is a game that rewards for avoiding bad fortune, rather than a game that rewards you for good fortune. From where I stand, Lirianne's shuffle power is just another chance for things to go wrong.
Oh right. Sorry. Sorry.
The best character that isn't Merisiel?
Oh right. Sorry. Sorry.
The best character that isn't Merisiel?
Now you're just taunting me...
And the more characters I play, the lower I tend to rate Merisiel... Although she's still great, she gets farther and farther from justifiably being in the top xx list.
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Oh right. Sorry. Sorry.
The best character that isn't Merisiel?
Now you're just taunting me...
And the more characters I play, the lower I tend to rate Merisiel... Although she's still great, she gets farther and farther from justifiably being in the top xx list.
Honestly, I'm not impressed with the Rogues in general. I'm sure they can play amazingly, but they are pretty far from my playstyle.
Plus, any character with a free evade for me is just wasting a power slot for something that I never have done, and never will do.
Oh right. Sorry. Sorry.
The best character that isn't Merisiel?
Now you're just taunting me...
And the more characters I play, the lower I tend to rate Merisiel... Although she's still great, she gets farther and farther from justifiably being in the top xx list.
Honestly, I'm not impressed with the Rogues in general. I'm sure they can play amazingly, but they are pretty far from my playstyle.
Plus, any character with a free evade for me is just wasting a power slot for something that I never have done, and never will do.
You'll never evade summoned monsters?
Just saying. That's an obvious and useful application of free evasions.
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I suppose that's a scenario where I would use it. However, I could probably count on two hands how many summoned monsters I personally had to encounter in the whole RotR path with my 4-man group.
To be honest though, I like to hit things. Hard. (Sajan was a blast when I'd fill up on Erastils and Lamashtus!) As long as I have at least a 70%-75% chance of killing it, even with a free evade, I'd still just risk it and smash it in its stupid face.
I'll never forget the Adventure 2 or 3 villain that made you recharge then draw your hand size between checks. Recharged a full hand of Erastils with an empty deck... drew up and did it again for check 2.
Ranzak's free evade will change your view of evades.
That being said, I didn't enjoy playing Merisiel in RotR and she ended up being one of my least efficient characters.
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Ranzak's free evade will change your view of evades.
That being said, I didn't enjoy playing Merisiel in RotR and she ended up being one of my least efficient characters.
Ranzak's isn't just an evade though, it has an extra piece to it. You don't evade it and possibly have to fight it again next turn, or later. You say "Wait, I can't smash this in the face... YOU DO IT". Well, something close to that that fits in Goblin-song form.
In fact, it only further deepens my belief that generic evades are not for me. Tack something onto the evade and it can be cool. Tell me I can evade, but nothing else happens at all, I don't want it.
EDITED: I hate that Merisiel's favorite card isn't weapon. I get why it's not fluff-wise, but it would help her so much (in power level and in terms of me liking her)...
It should be noted that she doesn't fit my playstyle either, so I also don't like her. I'm a big fan of spell-casting in the PACG, and its clone, Alchemy (Damiel and his potions basically are a spellcaster, even without his spell slots or the Arcane/Divine power). I mean, really, Potions are basically a third category of spell: there's Arcane, Divine, and Alchemical (In the PACG, anyway). They get banished right after you use them if you're not an alchemist or you don't have the item that makes you use them like one (Tot Flask)...
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I'm a big fan of spell-casting in the PACG
Really? You're joking.
, and its clone, Alchemy (Damiel and his potions basically are a spellcaster, even without his spell slots or the Arcane/Divine power).
When I first saw the Damiel character sheet, I though "Oh, that seems kinda cool."
I've played him through the pre-scenarios and the first adventure, and part of the second. He is officially my favorite character from both sets and the class decks. He isn't the best in every way, and other characters have things I wish he did (like a half-decent Charisma), but overall I'll take him over any other character.
I'm a big fan of spell-casting in the PACGReally? You're joking.
You got me. I actually prefer using characters with 4 card hand sizes, plenty of Armor, and Favorite Card Type: Armor.
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Okay, I couldn't even type that with a straight face XD
I suppose that's a scenario where I would use it. However, I could probably count on two hands how many summoned monsters I personally had to encounter in the whole RotR path with my 4-man group.
Have you seen Shark Island? Yeah, Merisiel says, "Sharks? What sharks? *grin*"
I suppose that's a scenario where I would use it. However, I could probably count on two hands how many summoned monsters I personally had to encounter in the whole RotR path with my 4-man group.Have you seen Shark Island? Yeah, Merisiel says, "Sharks? What sharks? *grin*"
There are also barriers that summon monsters and villains that summon monsters in both AP's. And the Guard Tower, Meri just laughs at that stupid [swear-word] location. Also, she should have a love-child with Ilsori Gandethis (or however you spell his name). That combo is awesome.
Oh yeah, monsters that summon other monsters. Those things can just be annoying to no end. Merisiel is a good person to have run into the Owlbeartross.
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Have you seen Shark Island? Yeah, Merisiel says, "Sharks? What sharks? *grin*"
the kind that can't be evaded, that's what sharks