Undersized Mount feat and Eidolons


Rules Questions

Silver Crusade

3 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

Does the Undersized Mount feat (ACG-159) remove the requirement of the mount evolution (APG-60) that the eidolon must be one size larger than the summoner to ride?

Liberty's Edge

It's a good question. My hunch based on a first read is no. The Undersized Mount feat is taken by the rider. The Mount evolution is for the eidolon and to even qualify, it must be one size larger than the summoner.

Silver Crusade

In a home game I would allow it. As for PFS, I'm not sure as to RAW or RAI.


It's a good question, but I'd like to point out that you can still ride things that are unsuitable as mounts:

Ride Skill
You are skilled at riding mounts, usually a horse, but possibly something more exotic, like a griffon or pegasus. If you attempt to ride a creature that is ill suited as a mount, you take a –5 penalty on your Ride checks.

So even if the eidolon is undersized and lacks the mount evolution, you can still try to ride it at a -5 penalty. All the feat and evolution do are remove that penalty.

Grand Lodge

You missed a second penalty that is much more important. It is a Move Action to control your untrained mount instead of the Free Action to control a Trained Mount.

Silver Crusade

Drake Brimstone wrote:
You missed a second penalty that is much more important. It is a Move Action to control your untrained mount instead of the Free Action to control a Trained Mount.

Which wouldn't apply to an eidolon.

Grand Lodge

Ajaxis wrote:
Drake Brimstone wrote:
You missed a second penalty that is much more important. It is a Move Action to control your untrained mount instead of the Free Action to control a Trained Mount.
Which wouldn't apply to an eidolon.

Why not?

Do not use intelligence for a reason, it doesn't understand how to act as a mount because it is NOT suited to be a mount without the Mount evolution. Do you understand how to act as a combat trained mount? It is far more then just knowing what your rider wants, you have to know how to move properly with someone on your back.

Silver Crusade

A creature you summoned and can communicate with is under your control automatically(CRB-354). You can tell your horse-dragon eidolon to attack a particular foe or move a certain direction by shouting from thirty feet away. I don't read the rules as you losing that ability because your sitting on the eidolon. You don't need to worry about the "Control [not combat trained] Mount in Battle" part of the Ride skill (CRB-104).

Maybe your thinking of the "Fight [you get to make an attack on top your mount's] with Combat Trained Mount" part of the Ride skill, which is a free action. As the mount evolution specifically calls out the eidolon as "skilled and formed" as combat trained mount, I'd can see this (your?) point. If you want to make a ride skill check to attack in addition to your mounts attack, you do need the mount evolution. Which in itself is an important second penalty.

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