Why is Wotc wasting their time follying up a whole new edition of their game when they should just cave in and market their settings and own adventures. They could at least make some money on the success of their most recently successful edition 3.75.
Seriously with all their settings they have more than enough products they could sell and easily make a decent profit. WE NEED EBERRON, DRAGONLANCE, FORGOTTEN REALMS, GHOSTWALK, RAVENLOFT..... The list goes on, right there you have 5 months worth of just hardcovers, then you could go for adventures, miniatures, etc.... seriously do they have apes sitting in the ceo chairs making these pathetic decisions. If they are gonna continue to blindly destroy everything they had worked on for so long they could at least get along with it faster and sell the dnd license to paizo, at least then it would be put to good use.
| 8 people marked this as a favorite. |
I gotta say, DnD 5e is pretty fun. To me it feels like what I like about 3e/pathfinder, to my gf if feels like 1e and others at the table, it feels like what they feel is their favorite edition. I should also say that 5e has my gf playing again after a number of years away, something pathfinder was never able to do. They did a really good job with it. Combined with the fact that every game store owner I've talked to, they express really good sales. I don't think Wizards is destroying the hobby at all. I really think they stepped up to the challenge and did well.
To give credit where credit is due. They did good.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Because all the money is in the rules books and not the adventures.
I gotta say, DnD 5e is pretty fun. To me it feels like what I like about 3e/pathfinder, to my gf if feels like 1e and others at the table, it feels like what they feel is their favorite edition. I should also say that 5e has my gf playing again after a number of years away, something pathfinder was never able to do. They did a really good job with it. Combined with the fact that every game store owner I've talked to, they express really good sales. I don't think Wizards is destroying the hobby at all. I really think they stepped up to the challenge and did well.
To give credit where credit is due. They did good.
Agree with this totally. The 5e PHB is the first RPG book I've actually bought since the 3.0 PHB when it first came out. For myself, and I suspect many others, the 5e rule set is a return to the way RPGs are supposed to be. After the abomination that was 4e, I'm glad to see the direction they went with this new edition. I don't even care about their settings, never used Eberron, Dragonlance, Ravenloft, or Dark Sun setting material anyway. In fact, aside from the deities listed in the 3.x material and any pre-made modules we played, I don't think my group has really made use of any official setting material.
That being said, I'm still wary of the WotC methodology. For myself, I'll be happy to play for many years with just the three core books. If they add meaningful changes without just going full-on splat, I may buy more beyond that.
If they add meaningful changes without just going full-on splat, I may buy more beyond that.
If WotC's previous business model is any indication, they will go full splat as hard and repetitive as they possibly can.
If they add meaningful changes without just going full-on splat, I may buy more beyond that.If WotC's previous business model is any indication, they will go full splat as hard and repetitive as they possibly can.
That's pretty much what I'm expecting. But, as with all the past editions, I'm sure we'll be fine with just the core 3. I'm also interested in seeing what they make available online, though right now I'm expecting it will be nothing.
| 6 people marked this as a favorite. |
Why is Wotc wasting their time follying up a whole new edition of their game when they should just cave in and market their settings and own adventures. They could at least make some money on the success of their most recently successful edition 3.75.
Probably because there are quite a lot of people who don't play Pathfinder or v3.5 because of how......I'm gonna be nice......unwieldy the system can be, especially at higher levels. And because a LOT of people just won't purchase yet another homebrewed 3rd Edition again. Going outside the Paizo bubble and reading comments on 5E, it's shown me just how far people have come in the last 5 or 6 years in terms of what they want in their systems. I've seen people ride the Pathfinder band-wagon and later accept that the system has most of the flaws of v3.5 while only adding enough bells and whistles to keep people's attention OR because they're sticking with a system they already known vs. a brand new edition with a LOT of different rules and style (ie. 4E) and because it was easier.
Now that 5E is out and it's 1) more streamlined. 2) easier and faster to pick up and play. 3) can be used to convert a LOT of v3.5 and 4E material. 4) has better balance across the board than v3.5 and Pathfinder, I think it's a safe bet that 5E will do fairly well early on. The true telling will be later in the year after or a year after release and how they handle the amount of bloat people are used to coming out. Can they create adventures that are useful and fun? It appears that Ghosts of Dragonspear Castle and the Murder in Baldur's Gate / Icewind Dale / Dead in Thay adventures were quite amusing and fun from people's reactions across the forums.
Seriously with all their settings they have more than enough products they could sell and easily make a decent profit. WE NEED EBERRON, DRAGONLANCE, FORGOTTEN REALMS, GHOSTWALK, RAVENLOFT..... The list goes on, right there you have 5 months worth of just hardcovers, then you could go for adventures, miniatures, etc.... seriously do they have apes sitting in the ceo chairs making these pathetic decisions. If they are gonna continue to blindly destroy everything they had worked on for so long they could at least get along with it faster and sell the dnd license to paizo, at least then it would be put to good use.
Or they could just make a better game. 5E seems, on many fronts, to be just that. Considering that I frequent places like theRPGsite, who's extremely.......I'm gonna be nice........one sided in their view of 4E and WotC in general, the amount of support the new version is getting is pretty amazing to witness. Let alone at other places as well.
I think the fact is: People are getting burnt out on the ridiculousness of the 3rd Edition system (and for many others 4E as well). The bloat, the trap options, the moronic levels of numbers and broken combos and page after page after page of options and the HUGE dependence on magical items, and monster stat blocks that fill entire pages, and high level play being completely dominated by spellcasters are just getting on people's nerves. People don't want to see Players dishing out 158 DPR in 1 turn at 11th level. People don't want to see ACs ascending into the 40's or Attack modiiers hitting +30/+25 yadda-yadda. ALL of that is pretty apparent in v3.5 and Pathfinder (and to an extent 4E as well).
Agree with this totally. The 5e PHB is the first RPG book I've actually bought since the 3.0 PHB when it first came out.I gotta say, DnD 5e is pretty fun. To me it feels like what I like about 3e/pathfinder, to my gf if feels like 1e and others at the table, it feels like what they feel is their favorite edition. I should also say that 5e has my gf playing again after a number of years away, something pathfinder was never able to do. They did a really good job with it. Combined with the fact that every game store owner I've talked to, they express really good sales. I don't think Wizards is destroying the hobby at all. I really think they stepped up to the challenge and did well.
To give credit where credit is due. They did good.
I haven't seen it yet, though I think it looks good. The only problem I have with it is: What does it replace? I mean, I like 5E and the play test was fun, but my group really digs 4E and we still play v3.5 and I can sorta get the same feeling by just playing E6.
For myself, and I suspect many others, the 5e rule set is a return to the way RPGs are supposed to be. After the abomination that was 4e, I'm glad to see the direction they went with this new edition.
Honestly, was that sort of terminology necessary? I get some don't like 4E, fine, but these sorts of comments just inflame edition warring and all the BS that goes along with it.
That being said, I'm still wary of the WotC methodology. For myself, I'll be happy to play for many years with just the three core books. If they add meaningful changes without just going full-on splat, I may buy more beyond that.
And, after initial sales, how do they continue to turn a profit?
Why is Wotc wasting their time follying up a whole new edition of their game when they should just cave in and market their settings and own adventures. They could at least make some money on the success of their most recently successful edition 3.75.
Seriously with all their settings they have more than enough products they could sell and easily make a decent profit. WE NEED EBERRON, DRAGONLANCE, FORGOTTEN REALMS, GHOSTWALK, RAVENLOFT..... The list goes on, right there you have 5 months worth of just hardcovers, then you could go for adventures, miniatures, etc.... seriously do they have apes sitting in the ceo chairs making these pathetic decisions. If they are gonna continue to blindly destroy everything they had worked on for so long they could at least get along with it faster and sell the dnd license to paizo, at least then it would be put to good use.
Whatever WotC has done in the past, good or bad, the newest edition is an attempt to bridge divides that have formed between the gaming community over the past half-century. Whether it does a good job at this or not is likely to vary from person to person, but it is a noble effort nonetheless.
As to the settings, Forgotten Realms is going to be the flagship setting for 5E's launch (or maybe I should say "is currently the flagship. . .") and the next year or so, if I'm recalling correctly. Dragonlance, Eberron, Greyhawk, and Ravenloft are all either confirmed or *wink-wink, nudge-nudge* confirmed. I wouldn't be surprised to see Planescape making a reappearance in the near future as well (one can hope).
As to the game itself, it seems to have a generally positive-lukewarm reception (leaning more towards the former from what I've seen/read/experienced, which is admittedly limited). A lot of the staunch opponents were digging their trenches before the game released, so I'm not surprised to see the bile hasn't lessened from that camp.
Bottom line? You're getting the setting books and materials you want, plus a new edition. I've greatly enjoyed 5E thus far, especially from the DM side of things (all three sessions I've ran, that is). So for my own super personal objective anecdote of an opinion, I'm glad they pressed forward with a new game.
- the multitude of settings was one of the straws on TSRs back in the 90ies.
- money is made primarily from the core rulebooks
- 4e does not seem to have been such a big success, compared to 3e
- There is no need to bash a company for redoing a rule set that was not bringing in enough money anymore. They need to generate revenue, instead of going broke over catering to every hiccup of their whimsical fan community.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Supporting a multitude of settings was the one of the straws on TSRs back in 90s, not the fact that they had them.
One or two books detailing each setting (A campaign and a monster book, maybe) would be, in my opinion, a smart way to handle it.
Or farming these projects out to other companies as they are the adventures.
Or farming these projects out to other companies as they are the adventures.
I love that idea. Use the far broader talent base that is out there. TSR in the 80s and 90s tried to "own" the vast stable of writers and artists. Part it out, nowadays all around the world, and manage the quality of the output to not dilute the brand.
The Frogs have the chops to write some brilliant stuff, I would love to see what they could do in Greyhawk.
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
Why is Wotc wasting their time follying up a whole new edition of their game when they should just cave in and market their settings and own adventures. They could at least make some money on the success of their most recently successful edition 3.75.
Seriously with all their settings they have more than enough products they could sell and easily make a decent profit. WE NEED EBERRON, DRAGONLANCE, FORGOTTEN REALMS, GHOSTWALK, RAVENLOFT..... The list goes on, right there you have 5 months worth of just hardcovers, then you could go for adventures, miniatures, etc.... seriously do they have apes sitting in the ceo chairs making these pathetic decisions. If they are gonna continue to blindly destroy everything they had worked on for so long they could at least get along with it faster and sell the dnd license to paizo, at least then it would be put to good use.
Frankly I think it would just be better for everyone involved if you chose not to concern yourself with anything having to do with published D&D products going forward.
Agree with this totally. The 5e PHB is the first RPG book I've actually bought since the 3.0 PHB when it first came out.I gotta say, DnD 5e is pretty fun. To me it feels like what I like about 3e/pathfinder, to my gf if feels like 1e and others at the table, it feels like what they feel is their favorite edition. I should also say that 5e has my gf playing again after a number of years away, something pathfinder was never able to do. They did a really good job with it. Combined with the fact that every game store owner I've talked to, they express really good sales. I don't think Wizards is destroying the hobby at all. I really think they stepped up to the challenge and did well.
To give credit where credit is due. They did good.
I haven't seen it yet, though I think it looks good. The only problem I have with it is: What does it replace? I mean, I like 5E and the play test was fun, but my group really digs 4E and we still play v3.5 and I can sorta get the same feeling by just playing E6.
For myself, and I suspect many others, the 5e rule set is a return to the way RPGs are supposed to be. After the abomination that was 4e, I'm glad to see the direction they went with this new edition.Honestly, was that sort of terminology necessary? I get some don't like 4E, fine, but these sorts of comments just inflame edition warring and all the BS that goes along with it.
And, after initial sales, how do they continue to turn a profit?
That being said, I'm still wary of the WotC methodology. For myself, I'll be happy to play for many years with just the three core books. If they add meaningful changes without just going full-on splat, I may buy more beyond that.
As far as I'm concerned, 4e is an abomination. Sorry if that makes you uncomfortable.
They will continue to make a profit by churning out books. If they make good books, I'll be likely to buy. If they don't, I won't. I don't recall saying they have to cater exactly to my tastes, but if they don't then they won't get my money. I'm sure there are many other people who have different tastes than I do, and I'm sure they'll get money from them.
Wat.
EDIT: Ah. Okay, cool.
Or farming these projects out to other companies as they are the adventures.
I've heard from some industry insiders that this is in the process of happening.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
As far as I'm concerned, 4e is an abomination. Sorry if that makes you uncomfortable.
Uncomfortable? No. Elicits uncontrollable eye-rolling and face-palming for the over dramatic usage of words? Yes.
Further, it sadly demonstrates the gulf and disparity that fans of a niché hobby face over the most moronic things.
Or farming these projects out to other companies as they are the adventures.I've heard from some industry insiders that this is in the process of happening.
WotC does not have the staff numbers on the tabletop RPG line anymore to churn out product like they did for 3.x/4E.
They will absolutely farm it out if they want to create more than 2-3 large products/year.
I would expect you will see all of those campaign settings eventually, though it may take up to 4 (or more) years to get them all.
Keep in mind that WotC has said that they want to tie in their products to computer games, board games, etc. Therefore, you may see the Dark Sun setting at the same time a Dark Sun board game or computer game is ready to go.
Or farming these projects out to other companies as they are the adventures.I've heard from some industry insiders that this is in the process of happening.WotC does not have the staff numbers on the tabletop RPG line anymore to churn out product like they did for 3.x/4E.
They will absolutely farm it out if they want to create more than 2-3 large products/year.
I would expect you will see all of those campaign settings eventually, though it may take up to 4 (or more) years to get them all.
Keep in mind that WotC has said that they want to tie in their products to computer games, board games, etc. Therefore, you may see the Dark Sun setting at the same time a Dark Sun board game or computer game is ready to go.
Which, IMO, isn't all that bad of an idea. I get not wanting to churn out splats and all but they're going to need some substance after the Player's Handbook, Monster Manual, and DMG come out. Even if it's adventures and such from 3PP support like Necromancer Games.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Frankly I think it would just be better for everyone involved if you chose not to concern yourself with anything having to do with published D&D products going forward.Why is Wotc wasting their time follying up a whole new edition of their game when they should just cave in and market their settings and own adventures. They could at least make some money on the success of their most recently successful edition 3.75.
Seriously with all their settings they have more than enough products they could sell and easily make a decent profit. WE NEED EBERRON, DRAGONLANCE, FORGOTTEN REALMS, GHOSTWALK, RAVENLOFT..... The list goes on, right there you have 5 months worth of just hardcovers, then you could go for adventures, miniatures, etc.... seriously do they have apes sitting in the ceo chairs making these pathetic decisions. If they are gonna continue to blindly destroy everything they had worked on for so long they could at least get along with it faster and sell the dnd license to paizo, at least then it would be put to good use.
Yeah I almost never agree with Scott on anything. But yeah man just...WALK AWAY.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Which, IMO, isn't all that bad of an idea. I get not wanting to churn out splats and all but they're going to need some substance after the Player's Handbook, Monster Manual, and DMG come out. Even if it's adventures and such from 3PP support like Necromancer Games.Or farming these projects out to other companies as they are the adventures.I've heard from some industry insiders that this is in the process of happening.WotC does not have the staff numbers on the tabletop RPG line anymore to churn out product like they did for 3.x/4E.
They will absolutely farm it out if they want to create more than 2-3 large products/year.
I would expect you will see all of those campaign settings eventually, though it may take up to 4 (or more) years to get them all.
Keep in mind that WotC has said that they want to tie in their products to computer games, board games, etc. Therefore, you may see the Dark Sun setting at the same time a Dark Sun board game or computer game is ready to go.
Kobold Press produced the first two official 5E epic Tyranny of Dragons adventures for Wizards of the Coast, after all.
Given the Greyhawk pedigree of a number of folks here at Paizo, one wonders if WotC made the offer to produce several official adventures for 5E Greyhawk like Kobold just did for Realms, whether Paizo would be willing to consider it.
Kobold Press produced the first two official 5E epic Tyranny of Dragons adventures for Wizards of the Coast, after all.Which, IMO, isn't all that bad of an idea. I get not wanting to churn out splats and all but they're going to need some substance after the Player's Handbook, Monster Manual, and DMG come out. Even if it's adventures and such from 3PP support like Necromancer Games.
Keep in mind that WotC has said that they want to tie in their products to computer games, board games, etc. Therefore, you may see the Dark Sun setting at the same time a Dark Sun board game or computer game is ready to go.
Exactly, which sounds like a pretty solid business decision. Get them to write it, slap the D&D logo on it, sell it as an official adventure. And, honestly, I always felt 3PP did adventures better than WotC anyways. They've had a few that were pretty good but for most of 4E's run the published adventures always felt too rail-roaded from the DM's perspective. It took a bit more work to get them a bit more organic and realistic, something I don't think is a problem now.
Given the Greyhawk pedigree of a number of folks here at Paizo, one wonders if WotC made the offer to produce several official adventures for 5E Greyhawk like Kobold just did for Realms, whether Paizo would be willing to consider it.
I really would hope NOT.
Keep in mind that WotC has said that they want to tie in their products to computer games, board games, etc. Therefore, you may see the Dark Sun setting at the same time a Dark Sun board game or computer game is ready to go.
From your keyboard to their ears... I'd love a Dark Sun board game or computer game.
|
Given the Greyhawk pedigree of a number of folks here at Paizo, one wonders if WotC made the offer to produce several official adventures for 5E Greyhawk like Kobold just did for Realms, whether Paizo would be willing to consider it.I really would hope NOT.
Not that I really think they would, but why the vehemence?
Paizo's better at adventures than they are rules, anyway. Excluding bestiaries, there's really only been one book in the Rulebook line that's been all that special...the APG. Everything since then has been rapidly diminishing returns; the core rulebook was simply a somewhat tweaked SRD, with backwards comparability taking precedence over fixing the system's problems; and the GMG was mostly simply regurgitated advice that's been around for decades before Paizo existed.
I'm glad that WotC made 5th edition. I admit that I am not a fan of them as a company; they have made some questionable marketing decision in the past, IMO. However, that doesn't impact the current product.
I paid $30 on Amazon for my 5E PHB and am very happy with what I received. The book is good quality and the the rules are a good fit for my group. No matter what they did in the past that does not change that I feel the current product is a good value.
I don't know what WotC will do with the line in the future, maybe they will screw it up with more questionable marketing. If that happens I won't buy any more 5E, but I still won't regret buying the core rule books.
I just got my copy of Hoard of the Dragon Queen yesterday and that book also looks fantastic. My group has many sessions of exciting times ahead with 5E.
