So what the heck is with the Temple Champion Paladin?

[Mrpops]

If you are not aware, the temple champion is an archetype for the paladin that cames out with the ACG.

It has two changes.

"A temple champion does not gain access to paladin spells, and does not have a paladin caster level or spell list. This is not considered a spellcasting class.

Domain Granted Power: At 4th level, a temple champion selects one domain granted by her deity (or a domain suitable for her ethos or goals, subject to GM approval). The temple champion gains the 1st-level granted power of that domain and uses her paladin level as her cleric level for determining the effects of that granted power. Any Wisdom-based aspects of that granted power instead use the temple champion's Charisma. The temple champion does not gain access to that domain's spell list."

"At 5th level, a temple champion gains the minor blessing (as the warpriest class feature) of the domain she selected at 1st level. She uses her paladin level as her warpriest level for determining the effects of that blessing. Any Wisdom-based aspects of that blessing instead use the temple champion's Charisma. At 11th level, she gains the major blessing of her chosen domain.

This ability replaces divine bond and aura of justice."

Some archetypes are traps because they seem good at first, but after you think about it, they are bad. This seems just straight up, irredeemably bad in every way. Why would anybody willingly give up four levels of spellcasting, divine bond, and aura of justice for that?

What am I missing here? And if there is nothing, Writer, what the heck was your thought process when you made this archetype?

[Scavion]

Yeah it's pretty lackluster.

[Blueskier]

It's an option for those who want a spell less paladin. Admitedly, it is very weak. Why the heck would you design an archetype like this and only make it gain the first domain power?

[K177Y C47]

Warrior of Holy Light is a much better example of spell-less Paladin....

I mean Temple Champion could have been pretty cool it it gained all the powers of their domain and blessing...

Honestly, they should have also gained 2 domains and 2 blessings... otherwise... this is just a utterly sub-par archetype vs the Warrior of Holy Light...

[nate lange]

i could see it potentially being useful... for a small number of builds...
if you took destruction (on a paladin of ragathiel) you could use the minor blessing on your self and stack it with the smites you get from the domain- that gives you +level to damage; if you stack that with a real smite you're getting +Cha to hit, +double your level damage, and ignore DR (which, with the bonus to hit and ability to bypass DR, makes missing divine bond less bad).

is it the best archetype? no. but i could see it working out here and there.

i do think that for everything they lose it wouldn't be unreasonable to get the second domain power too, or maybe some SLAs based on the domain spells or something...

[insaneogeddon]

Protection works for amazing defenses.

Artifice is nice for laying pain on constructs seeing you have outsiders, undead and dragons covered. Also handy for breaching walls.

I never liked sharing my smites anyway and spells are a distracting toy on such a powerful melee class as the paladin.

[DominusMegadeus]

insaneogeddon wrote:

...spells are a distracting toy on such a powerful melee class as the paladin.

No, sir.

d20pfsrd wrote:

Litany of Righteousness

School evocation [good, language-dependent]; Level inquisitor 3, paladin 2

CASTING
Casting Time 1 swift action
Components V, S, DF

EFFECT
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target one creature
Duration 1 round
Saving Throw no; Spell Resistance yes

DESCRIPTION

Calling down a litany of anathema, you make an evil more susceptible to the attacks of good creatures. If the target is evil, it takes double damage from attacks made by creatures with a good aura (from a class feature or as a creature with the good subtype). If the target also has the evil subtype; when it is hit with attacks made by creatures with a good aura, it is also dazzled for 1d4 rounds. If this spell targets a nonevil creature (or one that lacks the evil subtype), it has no effect, and the spell is wasted.

While subject to this spell, the target cannot be the target of another spell that has the word "litany" in the title.

[Coriat]

In most cases, yeah, it would be quite a bad trade. The paladin spell list packs a lot of strong spells in, many of which are swift actions.

The spells are pretty good tools especially at high levels either for double secret supercharging the paladin against evil, or for helping him battle nonevil foes just as well as evil ones.

While there are a few domain powers that are pretty awesome and one of them might be attractive enough to take the hit - several of them aren't really classic paladin material. Liberation... might be difficult for LG? Madness... not likely.

[Coriat]

Oh, on first glance I thought it traded only the spell list. Divine Bond and Aura of Justice too? Oh well.

[ryric]

The are a few domain choices which seem okay:

Good
Liberation
Nobility
Strength
Sun
War

Most of these give you group buffs or other effects that are tough to replicate with spells. It's likely still weaker than the base paladin but it's no crumple up your character sheet in despair weak. Some players really don't like bothering with spells and I think with a well chosen domain this archetype is viable - not spectacular, but viable.

Warrior of the Holy light got nerfed so that all their abilities use up lay on hands - it's a lot weaker than the original print version.

Not sure Protection would actually work with this archetype, since strictly RAW it doesn't grant the bonus the domain gives innately.

[Imbicatus]

I've said it before, but Madness is a pretty powerful option for the archetype. There is no overlap in abilities between the Madness domain and Madness Blessing, and they have good synergy together.

Touch of Madness causes saves and attack rolls to plummet. Then activate Aura of Madness to confuse your enemies. Then Control Madness Blessing to force the enemies to attack themselves.

Tsukiyo is a LG deity with the madness domain.

[Coriat]

Imbicatus wrote:

Tsukiyo is a LG deity with the madness domain.

Oh, well, now I know.