If you were to be able to rebuild a pfs character with 32 fame and a little over 36,000 gold, level 8, what would you make? I am particularly interested in ninja, rogue, or slayer builds. Multiclassing and prc's are ok too. I want something that can lay down the hurt, and is fairly versatile.
Hmmmmm...is this character able to be made into a tiefling? I assume this is a blob of GM credit that you are looking to give some form to. I am quite fond of one of the +Dex flavors of tieflingand going natural attacks as a rogue or ninja. Since you want versatility, you probably aren't looking to dump Int too much. Maybe go something like:
Feats: Armor of the Pit, Iron Will, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (claws)
Gear: Agile Amulet of mighty Fists, Belt of Incredible Dexterity +2, Headband of Alluring Charisma +2, +1 Mithral Kikko, Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier, Amulet of Natural Armor +1, Ring of Protection +1
You still have 6,000 gold left over. You could bump the kikko up to a +2 if you wanted to for 3,000 more gold.
Your melee attack sequence will look like:
Without Power Attack:
bite +12 (1d4+6+4d6), 2x claws +13 (1d4+6+4d6)
-each attack also does 1 point of Str or Dex damage, your choice, when you sneak attack
With Power Attack:
bite +10 (1d4+10+4d6), 2x claws +11 (1d4+10+4d6)
-each attack also does 1 point of Str or Dex damage, your choice, when you sneak attack
Your AC sits at 28 and jumps to 32 against a target you landed a sneak attack against on your last turn.
I'm not sure where your saves are, but reflex is through the roof. You have 67 HP if you put every FCB into HP. You also have 64 skill points to spend. You'll obviously want 8 ranks each in acrobatics, stealth, and diplomacy. The rest I'll leave up to you.
It's making use of a boon to rebuild a character, so no tiefling. He is a human ninja going the two-weapon fighting route. I wonder if I can do anything with style feats.
Your AC sits at 28 and jumps to 32 against a target you landed a sneak attack against on your last turn.
As the feat reads, it is just a flat bonus to your AC that would stack with itself. Potentially giving you 12 more AC vs all targets. There is an FAQ about it. That says:
FAQ wrote:
Rogue: Does the dodge bonus from the “offensive defensive” rogue talent (page 131) stack with itself? Does it apply to everyone, or just to the target I’m attacking?
There are two issues relating to this rogue talent.
One, in the first printing it provided a +1 circumstance bonus against the attacked target, which was a very weak ability. The second printing update changed it from a circumstance bonus to a dodge bonus, but accidentally omitted the “against that creature” text, which made it a very strong ability.
Two, it doesn’t specify whether the dodge bonus stacks with itself, and because this creates a strange place in the rules where bonuses don’t stack from the same source but dodge bonuses always stack. While we haven’t reached a final decision on what to do about this talent, we are leaning toward this solution: the dodge bonus only applies against the creature you sneak attacked, and the dodge bonus does not stack with itself. This prevents you from getting a dodge bonus to AC against a strong creature by sneak attacking a weak creature, and prevents you from reaching an absurdly high AC by sneak attacking multiple times in the same round.
So currently it does still work. I dont know if its worth it building your character around that, since the talent is subject to change.
@Slacker: I was only assuming you got the bonus once per round, not stacking it up multiple times and against all opponents.
@Cory: TWF for a ninja is going to be a rough road. You're going to have problems hitting things, and when you do hit them, you won't do much damage. You may want to consider going with a two-haned weapon. In the long run you will do as much, if not more, damage.
From here you still have quite a bit of room to mess around with too, 1 feat from being human and 3 ninja tricks, or if you use ninja tricks as feats it would be 3 feats and 1 rogue trick.
You could dump str unless you wanted power attack. Handy Haversack and possibly mithril chain shirt would let you deal with encumbrance.
That build looks good. I am also toying with power attacking with an agile elven curve blade, or going a str based half-Orc skulking slayer/scout rogue.
Make a half elf to get the EWP
Get one level of swashbuckler then all slayer, at level 2 you can pick 2 weapon fighting from the slayer style talent and at lvl 6 you can get enhanced twf.
So, you think slayer is better than ninja, and twf is better than two-handed. I thought you couldn't twf with slashing grace. I thought you had to have a hand free.
It has to be a one handed weapon that you are wielding with one hand. Sawtooth Sabre is the only weapon that qualifies as a one-handed weapon for Slashing Grace and as a light weapon for TWF (with the exception of the Sunblade).
Yeah, but the weapon itself it legal for PFS (unless I am missing something). For the record, you were probably thinking of Precise Strike. That can not be used with TWF.
well, full attacking is a given no matter what you take. And if you didn't want flanking why did you want a ninja?
The only way of skiping full attack are: well gaining pounce so you can always full-attack or be a spellcaster. So, pummeling style with a brawler/monk/masterof many style dip or a barbarian.
As for flanking, well there's not too many option. You could get improved faint and two weapon feint (but it's hardly worth it). Or you could get dodge mobility, canny tumble and counfounding tumble deed to be able to drop dex from ennemy defense.
I mean, you asked for a rogue, slayer or ninja build.
The advantage of the build I gave you is you can still get decent damage if you cant flank because of the studied target class feature.
I'm not too familiar with the new book but slashing grace + 1 level of cleric of callistria (or other god that has whip as favored) + W Finesse + W Focus + Crusader's Flurry + Whip Mastery + Combat Reflexes on a character with 6 levels of Flowing Monk seems like it might do as a Dex-based character that can control space and deal adequate damage.
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If all you're looking at is versatility and DPS, there are many ways to go, including Barbarian, Alchemist, Summoner, Gunslinger, etc.
If I wanted spell-less DPS and some versatility, I'd do a Gunslinger build of some type. The one I'm going to do next for PFS I think is simply Half-Orc Paladin 7 / Gunslinger 5 with Beast Rider and Boon Companion. Riding a flying Pteranodon and shooting a musket at foes I've smote seems pretty awesome once it gets going.
well, full attacking is a given no matter what you take. And if you didn't want flanking why did you want a ninja?
The only way of skiping full attack are: well gaining pounce so you can always full-attack or be a spellcaster. So, pummeling style with a brawler/monk/masterof many style dip or a barbarian.
As for flanking, well there's not too many option. You could get improved faint and two weapon feint (but it's hardly worth it). Or you could get dodge mobility, canny tumble and counfounding tumble deed to be able to drop dex from ennemy defense.
I mean, you asked for a rogue, slayer or ninja build.
The advantage of the build I gave you is you can still get decent damage if you cant flank because of the studied target class feature.
I get that martial characters get the most damage from full-attacking. I would just like to do some reasonable damage before I get the flank/full attack set up instead of pitiful damage.
That build looks interesting, but it has a lot of holes. He will fail practically every fort and will save he has to make. He has to get that flank/full attack set-up to do any real damage. He has no way to deal with flying/far away enemies, grappling, or swarms. In short he can do decent situation dependent damage, but makes a terrible adventurer. Damage is good, but I need an adventurer.
Standard DPS ninja in PFS uses Tengu with alternate trait for claws.
Three natural attacks on a flank, all at highest bonus. Get an amulet of mighty fists (it increases natural attacks and they count as magic and whatever else you put on).
The only thing you're missing is you can't take the rogue racial arch that gives you pounce (but that's pretty limited anyway), and you would have wanted to run your ki pool on Wis rather than Cha (for which you need at least 4 monk levels).
If you're a melee specialist, you'll need to have some way to fly later on...and either move fast or slow an opponent down (which is one reason why spells that either debuff or tactically cut up the battlefield are so strong and why "god" wizards are so nice).
That build looks interesting, but it has a lot of holes. He will fail practically every fort and will save he has to make. He has to get that flank/full attack set-up to do any real damage. He has no way to deal with flying/far away enemies, grappling, or swarms. In short he can do decent situation dependent damage, but makes a terrible adventurer. Damage is good, but I need an adventurer.
Well you did ask for rogue or ninja builds, all of which will suffer from the same weaknesses. His will save, at least, is +5 and you could bump it to +6 with a trait. Other trait would be Quain Martial Artist, which adds +1 damage to all unarmed strikes.
At least with this build having Vanishing Trick you won't have as much trouble maneuvering into a flank.
As fas as adventuring, you've got a whole mess of skill points to give you versatility and utility.
For doing damage without full-attack on a rogue/ninja/slayer there is no option. You ask for something that does not exist. Either you get pounce or you dont. You can do something else then damage when you can't full. (stealth, magic, dazzling display?)
In combat, the slayer is definitly superior to the rogue, and probably better then the ninja. However, he lacks a bit good talent for sneaking like the ninja.
With my build, you can build towards Pummeling Style. That gives you full attack every round and once you get Invisible Blade, they all get +2 and sneak attack. You would need to take a level of either brawler or monk to get it, but it's well worth while.
For flanking characters, I highly recommend the feat Gang Up: you are considered flanking if two other creatures threaten your target. You get your sneak attack much more consistently without relying on position.
You could consider a dip into Urban Barbarian so you can rage to increase your Dex (adding +2 attack/damage). Then pick up Furious on your weapons for an additional +2 attack and damage while raging. That would boost your damage output somewhat.
For "non-pitiful damage" that doesn't depends on full attack or sneak attack, you would probably need to go with a strength-based two-handed weapon with Power Attack. Which sounds kind of like the complete opposite of your character concept. Here's the problem:
Dex to Damage tricks don't do 1.5 times damage on a two-handed weapon like Str-to-Damage does. They either require that you wield the weapon one-handed (Dervish Dance, Slashing Grace) or they specifically call out that they don't (Agile enhancement).
Both Power Attack and Piranha Strike halve their damage bonus on an off-hand weapon, no matter what. But you still take the full penalty on all attacks, which in some cases actually calculates out to less damage overall.
Because you're not a fighter, you can't get the fighter-specific damage boosters like Weapon Specialization and Weapon Training.
Because of these limitations, your primary damage output comes from getting multiple attacks a round. Sneak attack damage is a bonus.
I guess you are right. I have to deal with flank/full attack and being mainly a one-trick pony with crappy saves. I was just thinking that with all the crazy stuff in Pathfinder, there may be some options that I was unaware of. I guess the only thing not married to a full attack would be a vital strike build. Has anyone made something like that?
With my build, you can build towards Pummeling Style. That gives you full attack every round and once you get Invisible Blade, they all get +2 and sneak attack. You would need to take a level of either brawler or monk to get it, but it's well worth while.
Would you mind statting out the pummeling style build? I kind of like the brawler.
I guess you are right. I have to deal with flank/full attack and being mainly a one-trick pony with crappy saves. I was just thinking that with all the crazy stuff in Pathfinder, there may be some options that I was unaware of. I guess the only thing not married to a full attack would be a vital strike build. Has anyone made something like that?
The best vital strike builds I've seen generally involved being a druid.
Most of your damage in D&D doesn't come from your weapon die but rather your modifiers after your hit (power attack, weapon buffs, or even sneak attack).
All vital strike does is give you an extra die to roll with one hit...it's actually weaker than a full-attack action most of the time (and can't be used WITH a full-attack), unless you're shapeshifted into a T-Rex or something else really nasty.
I am not a newb, I am just not up on all of the minute details of all the uber build options in Pathfinder. I just don't have time to research all of that. I know that after the first few levels, damage modifiers are way more important than damage dice. I have heard of a crazy cave druid build that does a lot of damage vital striking as a crystalline ooze.
These limitations are why I was really thinking about the half-orc rogue scout/skulking slayer/underground chemist. Sneak attack when I move 10 feet or more, sneak attack on cleave, sneak attack with splash weapons. A lot more ways to get the damage, and I can do pretty good damage on a single hit from a charge. Of course, a scout ninja can do some of this.
With my build, you can build towards Pummeling Style. That gives you full attack every round and once you get Invisible Blade, they all get +2 and sneak attack. You would need to take a level of either brawler or monk to get it, but it's well worth while.
Would you mind statting out the pummeling style build? I kind of like the brawler.
I will post something tomorrow. I need to read up on the brawler some more.
This is the best I can do off the top of my head for a Dex-based level 8 brawler. You could go Str-based. Drop Wis to 12, Int to 10, make Str the 20 and Dex will be a 14. Your damage will go up a little bit, but your AC will drop some. Your next purchase will be upgrading the belt to a +4, then a +6.
Level 8 brawler:
Human Brawler 8
Human Brawler 8
N Medium humanoid (human)
Init +6; Senses Perception +13
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Defense
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AC 27, touch 20, flat-footed 19 (+7 armor, +6 Dex, +1 deflection, +2 dodge)
hp 68 (8d10+16)
Fort +8, Ref +12, Will +6
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee gauntlet (from armor) +12/+7 (1d8+13) and
unarmed strike +12/+7 (1d10+14)
Ranged sling +14 (1d4)
Special Attacks brawler's flurry
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Statistics
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Str 10, Dex 22, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 14, Cha 8
Base Atk +8; CMB +5 (+7 grapple); CMD 28 (30 vs. grapple)
Feats Blind-Fight, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Unarmed Strike, Iron Will, Piranha Strike, Pummeling Charge, Pummeling Style, Weapon Finesse
Traits bullied, quain martial artist
Skills Acrobatics +17, Climb +11, Escape Artist +17, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +10, Knowledge (local) +10, Perception +13, Profession (barrister) +9, Swim +11
Languages Common, Orc
SQ ac bonus, brawler strike, close weapon mastery, knockout, martial flexibility, unarmed strike
Combat Gear jingasa of the fortunate soldier; Other Gear +2 mithral kikko armor, sling, sling bullets (10), +1 agile amulet of mighty fists, belt of incredible dexterity +2, ring of protection +1, 1,119 gp, 9 sp
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Special Abilities
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AC Bonus +1 (Ex) When a brawler wears light or no armor, she gains a dodge bonus to AC and CMD.
Blind-Fight Re-roll misses because of concealment, other benefits.
Brawler Strike (magic) (Ex) Unarmed strikes overcome DR as various things.
Brawler's Flurry +6/+6/+1/+1 (Ex) Can make full attack & gain two-wep fighting, but only with unarmed strike, close, or monk wep.
Bullied +1 to hit with unarmed AoEs.
Close Weapon Mastery (Ex) Weapons of the close group deal dam as unarmed strike at -4 levels.
Combat Reflexes (7 AoO/round) Can make extra attacks of opportunity/rd, and even when flat-footed.
Improved Unarmed Strike Unarmed strikes don't cause attacks of opportunity, and can be lethal.
Jingasa of the fortunate soldier (1/day) Activate to negate a critical hit or sneak attack as an immediate action.
Knockout (1/day, DC 20) (Ex) Declare before attack, if hit then foe is unconscious 1d6 rds (Fort neg), resave each rd.
Martial Flexibility (Swift action, 7/day) (Ex) As a Swift action, gain a combat feat for 1 min. More gained for greater actions.
Piranha Strike -3/+6 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage with light weapons.
Pummeling Charge When using Pummeling Style, make Pummeling Style atk at end of charge.
Pummeling Style As full-rd act, make normal full attack or flurry, adding all dmg together into 1 hit.
Unarmed Strike (1d10) Extra unarmed strike dam, no off-hand dam reduction and don't need free hands to att.
You could also mix master of maneuver monk with slayer bounty hunter and get the dirty trick line of feat.
Use your bonus maneuver to blind them and use your sneak attack.
the build:
slayer, bounty hunter: power attack, feat
master of maneuver:imp trip
slayer:
slayer:feat
master of maneuver:imp dirty trick, feat
slayer:feat or talent
lore master fighter: greater trip, great dirty trick.
grab a big 2-handed weapon. You can replace your small sneak by a dirty trick and ou still do the damage. You can do a greater trip to trip them and get an attack in. So you can get all the fun
With a ninja/Swashbuckler build there are several things you can do to help your saves. First obviously don't dump charisma and Charmed Life will be helpful. There is also a new cloak that will give +4 resistance with Charmed Life (price of a +3 cloak).
There is also a couple of new feats that should help. Battle cry will give +1 to hit and allows a reroll of a save.
Oh dear, I just realized that level 8 brawler build didn't even have a cloak of resistance. Maybe make the AoMF just agile and add a cloak of resistance +3. That will leave you with 4,000g leftover.
And I wonder if anybody noticed the brawler had ranks in profession (barrister)? I was going for a whole Fight Club sort of theme for him, lol.
Since you seemed to want a sneak attack build, here's a slayer build I'm working on for PFS. It's much better when you get to start at level 8.
Level 8 slayer:
Human Slayer 8
Human Slayer 8
N Medium humanoid (human)
Init +4; Senses Perception +12
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Defense
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AC 21, touch 13, flat-footed 18 (+8 armor, +2 Dex, +1 dodge)
hp 68 (8d10+16)
Fort +11, Ref +11, Will +9
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee +1 menacing wakizashi +11/+6 (1d6+13/15-20) and
+1 wakizashi +11/+6 (1d6+7/15-20)
Special Attacks sneak attack +2d6, studied target
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Statistics
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Str 22, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 8
Base Atk +8; CMB +11; CMD 27
Feats Blind-Fight, Dodge, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (wakizashi), Improved Critical (wakizashi), Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Iron Will, Power Attack, Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (wakizashi)
Traits indomitable faith, reactionary
Skills Acrobatics +12, Climb +16, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +11, Knowledge (local) +11, Perception +12, Stealth +12, Survival +12, Swim +16
Languages Common
SQ combat styles (two-weapon combat), slayer talents (combat trick, ranger combat style, ranger combat style, weapon training), track +4
Other Gear +2 mithral breastplate, +1 menacing wakizashi, +1 wakizashi, belt of giant strength +2, cloak of resistance +3, 4,280 gp
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Special Abilities
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Blind-Fight Re-roll misses because of concealment, other benefits.
Power Attack -3/+6 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Sneak Attack +2d6 Attacks deal extra dam if flank foe or if foe is flat-footed.
Studied Target +2 (Swift action, 2 at a time) (Ex) Study foe as a Swift action, gain +2 to att/dam & some skills vs. them.
Track +4 Add the listed bonus to survival checks made to track.
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That build looks good. I am still leaning towards skulking slayer. I have a lot of builds to mull over. So much you can do with 8 levels and a chunk of gold.
Yeah. I would like to start every character at level 4 and with say 6000g. Well I could if I would stop playing ad start GMing, but where's the fun in that?
