Someone, Chris is staring at this thread intently, trying to decide whether or not she should nuke it with her orbital bombardment lasers because A) it has veered so heavily off-course and B) because half the posts are insulting the inconceivable concept of sexy men (as opposed to rugged, bad-ass men) in roleplaying games.
Anyway, back on topic, I wouldn't mind seeing an overweight or barrel-chested iconic either. I wouldn't want his / her RP fluff to constantly be, "Oh, fatty's out of breath again!" or anything, but it would be nice to get some acknowledgement that adventuring isn't just for thin people and just because you're adventuring doesn't mean that you magically "burn off all the fat" or anything. I've always hated that excuse. And traditionally speaking, in Pathfinder fat people are generally portrayed as people that I'm not supposed to like, such as corrupt villains (like the leader of the Shadow Lodge) or annoyances to the party (like Horgus in Wrath of the Righteous). It would be a breath of fresh air to get an iconic with an atypical body shape.
I also liked the idea of a Middle Aged female iconic. It would be great if she was the iconic Medium, but I could also understand getting a male medium to play with people's expectations, since all of the best-known mediums in real-life and in fiction are stereotypically female.
Finally, since the kid's track has been growing nicely and psychic powers don't necessarily need physical strength, I'd like to see a young iconic. Not necessarily a child, but someone very clearly in the Youth age category. Paizo's been getting better about including children in their adventures and modules, but the inclusion of a true Youth iconic would help cement that inclusion for younger audiences. Plus it would give them a literal poster child for the kids track.
I doubt Chris would do that without at least firing a warning shot or two first. Chris is cool like that.
While I agree a more husky iconic isn't a bad idea, it's worth pointing out that an adventurer is someone who's going to use a lot of energy and build up some endurance / muscle. It's just basic biology: if you're constantly moving about on your feet, in combat, or undergoing physical exertion, that's a lot of energy you're burning. Likewise, while maintaining a diet mostly comprised of trail rations, cheap and simple tavern fare, or whatever they can get via Survival, the sort of rich and additive / harmful chemical-laced foods that contribute to a more overweight population in modern-day America isn't going to find a way into your system, for the most part. This doesn't guarantee you'll be as slim / buff as a Hollywood star or whatever, but I find it a dubious claim that even an 8th level wizard is going to look like Orson Welles did later in life.
I would love to see an older iconic as a psychic magic inspired slayer of some kind. I'm thinking Victoria from RED, but she can kill you with her brain.
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I'm excited for both books and would be pleased as punch to see non-core iconics whether bishounen, middle-aged and female, plump, or otherwise.
Seltyiel doesn't count as a bishōnen? The hawtness in question
Or is he too muscular to really count? (Not that one example is enough to bring parity when compared to the female iconics.)
I doubt Chris would do that without at least firing a warning shot or two first. Chris is cool like that.
Her lasers are precision-based. I've heard that they could blast the wings off of a fly buzzing around a farmer's market without so much as bruising a tomato.
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Oooo, Helen Mirren gunslinger!Also, I second the inclusion of an old lady iconic. Since we have Ezren, we need an elderly lady iconic to balance that scale a little.A Judy Dench will do nicely thanks. Gives hope to all us ageing ladies out here.
I'm a bit more partial to Helen Mirren, wizard. Take that, Ezren!
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A female Gnoll iconic would be a dream come true though I am guessing not popular enough or standard enough to ever be a reality. Ratfolk is also good.
A Judy Dench will do nicely thanks. Gives hope to all us ageing ladies out here.I think the core devs have stated they wont use any non-core races for iconics.I understand not wanting to use some of the weirder races, like catfolk or nagaji. However, I don't see why we can't have an aasimar or a tiefling iconic. They've been apart of the game for years, people are very familiar with them, and they're popular PC choices. I don't see why an exception can't be made for this corner case.
Also, I second the inclusion of an old lady iconic. Since we have Ezren, we need an elderly lady iconic to balance that scale a little.
I see your Dench and raise you an Alex Kingston.
/not really elderly, but definitely in the GM range
//and she's aging really well
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I really want to commission her to do a bishie android overdriven (barbarian archetype).Moar sexy bishie tieflings plz.(art by Sakimichan! Check out her work!)
1. God I just want to commission her for something, period.
2. Please do! :D
That's really not an art style that fits with the established style. And iconics are always drawn by Wayne Reynolds anyway.
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Seltyiel doesn't count as a bishōnen? The hawtness in question
Or is he too muscular to really count? (Not that one example is enough to bring parity when compared to the female iconics.)
Sometimes he does, but it seems to depend on the artist. For example, the Mythic version had a much prettier face.
It also kind of goes back to some of the earlier "where is all the male fanservice" threads where many mentioned that one thing that was severely missing were friendlier expressions. Seltyiel can do that, but most of the time he's portrayed as being visibly more untrustworthy. That and he's evil... But hey, there is a market for the "bad boy" types.
But we don't have any bishounen options that don't fall into that category...and now that I think about it, having a friendlier beautiful tiefling type would make for a neat contrast against the half-elven dastardly pretty boy, with both moving against racial expectations. :)
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That's really not an art style that fits with the established style. And iconics are always drawn by Wayne Reynolds anyway.
Objection. Pathfinder uses a wide variety of styles. Case in point: Pathfinder regular Carolina Eade
Both examples would fit right in.
wait what does male fanservice mean
yeah
that is what I thought it meant
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Males that provide fanservice.wait what does male fanservice meanUh fanservice for males or males that provide fanservice?
Gideon Emery!
*swooon*
But what about childlike emaciated goth lolis who serve as companions to wizened old sorcerers with the Tentacle bloodline?
WAIT WHY IS EVERYBODY LOOKING AT ME LIKE THAT PLEASE PUT THAT PITCHFORK AWAYUUUUGHHBRLLLLLL....*expires*
I'm sorry, but that only looks like a loli. Any rogue will tell you that by using their trap sense.
Also, who needs made up bloodlines? The alchemists actually have a discovery, the tentacle discovery, which comes with the grab ability (I know, I know. Jokes aside, it does make grappling builds viable for them, and can stack well with reach builds)
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But what about childlike emaciated goth lolis who serve as companions to wizened old sorcerers with the Tentacle bloodline?
WAIT WHY IS EVERYBODY LOOKING AT ME LIKE THAT PLEASE PUT THAT PITCHFORK AWAYUUUUGHHBRLLLLLL....*expires*
I'm sorry, but that only looks like a loli. Any rogue will tell you that by using their trap sense.
Also, who needs made up bloodlines? The alchemists actually have a discovery, the tentacle discovery, which comes with the grab ability (I know, I know. Jokes aside, it does make grappling builds viable for them, and can stack well with reach builds)
An interesting thing that my RL GM did is let my Aberrant blooded Bloodrager take the Aberrent Blood feats from 3.5's Lords of Madness as his Bloodline Feats.
The sad thing about the tentacle discovery is that...yes, yes it does work best on magical girls (or guys, if that is your preference).
I mean, grappling any 1/2 BAB caster (who probably dumped str hard) is always a relatively easy act, and doing so means they can't cast spells.
It doesn't work too well on witches though, since their bread and butter abilities are supernatural most of the time(does this mean that witch works best as the green ranger/antihero/lancer that allows the socerer protagonist deal the finishing blow?)
Do we really need another one of these posts? Don't we already have a dozen others just like this?
Wouldn't mind seeing an Alex Kingston or Helen Mirren sort, or Pierce Brosnan for the other side, generally older but still capable adventurer.
I'm less interested in seeing fan service being done just for the sake of fan service. After the nightmare threads about such around here, I'd just as soon see everyone dressed to adventure and less to titillate; that said, downtime pictures would be great in other places.
Race is less an issue for me, although it would be nice to see the occasional pull from the ARG, and yes I'm aware that we must look to Society gaming. That said, I don't think that should make a difference once we've stepped beyond the Core book -- this stuff is already optional, so I don't feel that we have to cater exclusively so that those playing Society games don't get upset that they can't play Bob the Iconic Whatever.
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I have mixed feelings about this thread
what about that Tengu from the cover of Advanced Races. I wouldn't mind seeing more of him (or her...I can't tell)
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what about that Tengu from the cover of Advanced Races. I wouldn't mind seeing more of him (or her...I can't tell)
Heck yeah. If we can have an Iconic Keleshite Cleric of Sarenrae, or an Iconic Vudrani Monk, the notion that 'iconic' has to mean 'generic' and can't mean 'Golarion-Specific' (like, uh, Keleshites or Vudrani or Sarenrae-worshippers) then we can *totally* have an Iconic Tengu.
Tengu (and Tieflings and Gnolls and Goblins) are at least in the Bestiary (Roleplaying Game), and not tucked away in the Inner Sea World Guide (Campaign Setting), making them *more* Iconic than Vudrans or Keleshites...
And heck, some of the races are flat out Golarion flavor all over, and not carried over from previous editions, like the Gillmen and Androids and Wayangs.
If 'Iconic' meant 'core only,' they already broke that rule a bunch with the non-core human ethnicities.
If 'Iconic' meant 'generic cliché,' then they also broke that rule with the oversized bastard sword wielding Barbarian and tea-drinking Dwarf Ranger and temple sword using Monk.
IMO, 'Iconic' never had to mean 'boring' or 'stereotype.'
Bring on the 'iconic' Vishkanya Ninja. The 'iconic' Jadwiga elemental Sorcerer. The 'iconic' hyenadon-whisperer Gnoll Ranger. The 'iconic' Erastili Archer Paladin mounted on a celestial Elk.
Embrace the potential of the setting and it's many races, cultures, ethnicities, deities and tasty, tasty options.
I wonder if the designers might break their "no non-core race iconic rule" for this particular product, since it seems to be such a different sort of beast than that which has come before?
I wonder if the designers might break their "no non-core race iconic rule" for this particular product, since it seems to be such a different sort of beast than that which has come before?
I really thought the would with the ACG but nope some ol boring core races that we have seen a million times before.
Hey guys! It might be a better idea to move some of the detailed stereotype/anime discussion to another thread.
what about that Tengu from the cover of Advanced Races. I wouldn't mind seeing more of him (or her...I can't tell)Heck yeah. If we can have an Iconic Keleshite Cleric of Sarenrae, or an Iconic Vudrani Monk, the notion that 'iconic' has to mean 'generic' and can't mean 'Golarion-Specific' (like, uh, Keleshites or Vudrani or Sarenrae-worshippers) then we can *totally* have an Iconic Tengu.
Tengu (and Tieflings and Gnolls and Goblins) are at least in the Bestiary (Roleplaying Game), and not tucked away in the Inner Sea World Guide (Campaign Setting), making them *more* Iconic than Vudrans or Keleshites...
And heck, some of the races are flat out Golarion flavor all over, and not carried over from previous editions, like the Gillmen and Androids and Wayangs.
If 'Iconic' meant 'core only,' they already broke that rule a bunch with the non-core human ethnicities.
If 'Iconic' meant 'generic cliché,' then they also broke that rule with the oversized bastard sword wielding Barbarian and tea-drinking Dwarf Ranger and temple sword using Monk.
IMO, 'Iconic' never had to mean 'boring' or 'stereotype.'
Bring on the 'iconic' Vishkanya Ninja. The 'iconic' Jadwiga elemental Sorcerer. The 'iconic' hyenadon-whisperer Gnoll Ranger. The 'iconic' Erastili Archer Paladin mounted on a celestial Elk.
Embrace the potential of the setting and it's many races, cultures, ethnicities, deities and tasty, tasty options.
Thinking about it, I kind of want some history from veteran PFS players (I've only even really looked at pathfinder for about 2 seasons, let alone even play PFS). With the removal of aasimar and tieflings as free choices in PFS in favor of a more Tien flavor, I notice tengu are still sticking around.
How long have they had that kind of position? Since tieflings and aasimar are being taken out since they are less populous in Tien, does that mean that tengu have good populations out west? Have they been free choices since their conception?
I kind of like the idea of tengu being a rather widespread, if not a particularly numerous race. I mean, they tend to live on the fringes of human/core races' societies, much like how crows live within real world human cities. And with the widespread habitat ranges of crows, it would make sense that a crow race would be a widespread background presence in Golarion. I can certainly see them having the wits and guile, as well as the linguistic and sword abilities, to survive anywhere.
But this might just be me making conjecture and wild theories. I would love some words from veterans about the issue.
Oh, and greylurker, if I know anything about bird biology (and if it has anything to do with bird person anatomy), then it might be hard to tell the gender, even if they weren't dressed in a gender ambiguous robe. I've heard that sometimes, penguins and parrots have to be tested genetically to tell the difference (unless they give you a suprise omlet, I guess). So I suppose it would only be visible if they wore pink bows (although I kind of like the the idea of a tengu couple dressed in attire like the one from the cover, and no one could ever tell which was the husband and which was the wife).
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The fact that this thread exists makes me happy. What doesn't make me happy is the significant dearth of non-D&D (AKA dragon-fiend), male tiefling artwork.
A tiefling iconic is almost a must at this point.
James Jacobs said just today there will be no non-core-race iconics. I believe at least part of the reason is to allow the iconics as pregens in Society play, without special boons being required.
And Keleshite and Vudran are ethnicities, not races.
I'm sure that Hell's Rebels will feature some tiefling characters, but the iconic designers seem pretty hard to budge when it comes to the core races.
But I think that Occult Adventures is a great opportunity for other, non-fantastical forms of diversity to be featured. Psychic-magic characters are a great way to introduce characters that aren't the standard bodybuidling heroes. Old characters (preferably a woman), heavy-set characters, very young characters -- maybe, if we're lucky enough, a physically handicapped* character in the style of Professor Xavier that can earn the same respect as warriors like Kess.
(*No offense meant here. I'm very behind the current terms in this field.)
Wasn't their someone on the forum who keeps on pushing forchildlike emaciated goth lolisHow horrifying and completely out of place in Pathfinder.Funny, I was going to say the same thing about bishonen :p
Course I hate most anime so... what we need is more Jojo's characters. Ridiculous proportions with fabulous poses. Would be funny.
I second this. We need more Kenshiros and Joseph Joestars. Especially old Joseph. Mythic Ezren is not enough.
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James Jacobs said just today there will be no non-core-race iconics.
Dang.
Still! There's plenty of time and room for a no-compromises all-the-way bishounen iconic of some sort! :) (art by Anndr)
And there's still hope for a friendly, bishounen, tiefling love interest in Hell's Rebels! (art by Sakimichan, though that first link upthread is definitely a more welcoming looking fellow)
C'mon 2015...
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It'd be nice to have an "old lady" iconic. Just speaking visually--it makes for a more varied lineup.I figure an Ailson Kindler ought to be a lock for sure for Occult Adventures. :)
I approve of this idea.
Creative Director
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James Jacobs said just today there will be no non-core-race iconics. I believe at least part of the reason is to allow the iconics as pregens in Society play, without special boons being required.
And Keleshite and Vudran are ethnicities, not races.
That's not quite what I said. We might some day do iconics of those races, but before we do, we'd have to decide how we feel about making an iconic of a race that's not a core race. We may find another way to do pseudo-iconics in the future though—iconics who aren't standing in for a base class. We shall see.
That's not quite what I said. We might some day do iconics of those races, but before we do, we'd have to decide how we feel about making an iconic of a race that's not a core race. We may find another way to do pseudo-iconics in the future though—iconics who aren't standing in for a base class. We shall see.James Jacobs said just today there will be no non-core-race iconics. I believe at least part of the reason is to allow the iconics as pregens in Society play, without special boons being required.
And Keleshite and Vudran are ethnicities, not races.
Archetype pseudo iconic maybe?
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How about racial iconics? As standins for the race, not for a particular class.
That could be awesome. And the other Golarion Human ethnicities that have yet to be covered (like Arcadians, Erutaki and Jadwiga) could also have Iconics.
The Advanced Race Guide probably would have been the ideal place for that, instead of having pre-existing artwork, which would have likely boosted the production cost a ton, since there were at least 37 races covered individually, and we'd need to clone WAR a dozen times if they were to be traditional WAR Iconics.
Still, Blood of Fiends and Blood of Angels both included a ton of awesome Tiefling and Aasimar art, so those two races aren't as lacking as others.
That's not quite what I said. We might some day do iconics of those races, but before we do, we'd have to decide how we feel about making an iconic of a race that's not a core race. We may find another way to do pseudo-iconics in the future though—iconics who aren't standing in for a base class. We shall see.James Jacobs said just today there will be no non-core-race iconics. I believe at least part of the reason is to allow the iconics as pregens in Society play, without special boons being required.
And Keleshite and Vudran are ethnicities, not races.
What about Racial iconics? Archetype iconics would work pretty well too.
I'd also like to see some more Prestige Class iconic love.
How about racial iconics? As standins for the race, not for a particular class.That's not quite what I said. We might some day do iconics of those races, but before we do, we'd have to decide how we feel about making an iconic of a race that's not a core race. We may find another way to do pseudo-iconics in the future though—iconics who aren't standing in for a base class. We shall see.James Jacobs said just today there will be no non-core-race iconics. I believe at least part of the reason is to allow the iconics as pregens in Society play, without special boons being required.
And Keleshite and Vudran are ethnicities, not races.
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As much as we try, beg and ask, Paizo has already said no to non core iconics. :(
Meh, they've already got an Iconic Kellid, an Iconic Keleshite, an Iconic Vudran, etc. and those ethnicities are very much not 'Core,' but pure Campaign Setting content through and through.
If there's a 'no non-core Iconics' rule, it's already weeping in the corner, wondering where it all went wrong.
Core races. Kellid, Keleshite, and Vudran are all ethnicities of human and have no mechanics you don't find in the CRB; you don't need another book for their stats.