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Still working this out for my home game, but thought I'd share. Some mechanics still need some figuring out, names aren't 100% solid, but I think the wacky idea behind it is all good:
Prestige and Achievements
Prestige Classes carry an inherent opportunity cost in the case of levels that might not always reflect the real concept for a character. While Prestige Classes offer a great deal of customization, they don't always feel worth that cost. Lowering a character's base class features in order to obtain levels in a prestige class will drive some players to never take levels that might otherwise be interesting for them.
Prestige Titles
This variant replaces prestige classes with a different system altogether. Inspired by Mythic Adventures, the Prestige system replaces prestige classes with a Achievement system: Titles. Like Mythic Tiers, Prestige Achievements aren't the same thing as levels a character obtains, and don't cost any sort of multiclassing. They have requirements like Prestige Classes do, but the First Achievement is earned when a character joins the organization that supports that class for the first time.
Characters each new Achievements when they complete Challenges that their Prestige Organization likes and supports. Their title grows in ability as a character completes challenges that reflect the goals and nature of that title.
Characters first can choose to pursue and gain a Title at 5th level. Characters can achieve up to five Achievements in a Prestige Title. In order to join and gain access to a Title and its achievements, characters must first meet the prerequisites of that title.
Peerage: At the first achievement, the character receives a bonus on Diplomacy and Sense Motive checks made against any one else that shares the same title as they do. This bonus is equal to that character's number of Achievements.
Prestige Saves: At the first achievement, the character receives a bonus on saving throws. Each title has its own favored saving throws. On these favored saving throws, the character gains a prestige bonus equal to the character's number of achievements.
Additional Training: At the first achievement, the character gains new class skills. Each prestige title has its own class skills, which the character adds to their own list of class skills. In addition, every time a character gains a new achievement, they also gain additional hit points or skill points. Each prestige title lists the skill or hit points gained at each new achievement obtained.
Title Feature: Each Prestige Title has a feature ability that all members obtain when they first gain a Achievement in that Title. This feature isn't a Prestige Ability, and is in addition to the prestige ability they can select on their first achievement.
Prestige Ability: At each Achievement, the character gains a prestige ability from that title's list of available prestige abilities.
Capstone: All prestige titles end in a Capstone ability at the 5th achievement.
# of Challenges needed to reach a new Achievement in a Prestige Title:
1st Achievement: Meeting the prerequisites and obtaining membership itself is all that is needed to gain the first achievement of a Prestige Title.
2nd Achievement: 3 Challenges
3rd Achievement: 5 Challenges
4th Achievement: 7 Challenges
5th Achievement: 10 Challenges
This is only a rough outline of the idea, but I think it is implementable as this. I think it'll allow people to consider prestige class ideas for their characters that previously they hadn't considered for the cost of losing their base or core class levels.
New Feat: Dual Titles [Prestige Feat]
Prerequisites: 1st Achievement
Benefit: You can select a second title. If you meet its prerequisites and can join it, you may select that Title's abilities in addition to your first title's. Furthermore, you can select to use that title's hit points, skill points or favored saving throws instead of your first title. You must select which title you use for your Prestige Saves and Additional Training, but both together. You cannot select separate titles for Additional Training and Prestige Saves, they must both be selected from the same Title.
Extra Prestige Ability [Prestige Feat]
Prerequisites: 1st Achievement
Benefit: You gain a prestige ability from your Prestige Title.
More musing and examples on my blog.
Whatcha think?
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It's a neat way to bring Prestige Classes back into the mix! It harkens back to when gaining a Prestige Class was as much about the roleplay involved with getting access to it as it was a package of mechanical benefits (3.0e vs what 3.5e became).
I even recall a section in the old DMG that listed alternative "challenge" ideas for qualifying for Prestige Classes, such as a "test of loyalty" for joining an Assassin's Guild (think Jason Bourne's training), or an Arena combat against a summoned devil for a Hell Knight group, etc.
I could even see some generic "non-established group" style of Prestige Titles:
Mercenary: A fighter that picks up the occasional job, with no permanent master. He shares a loose camaraderie with other mercenaries. Challenges might be almost self-imposed, based on taking on more difficult jobs (higher CR challenges) in a group, or even by himself.
Survivalist: Someone who lives out in the wild on his own, separate from society, etc. Lives off the land and whatnot. Might end up getting a animal companion or two. Challenges might be more survival based (living through a blizzard by skill alone, etc). He'll recognize and respect other survivalists, know how they operate, etc, but aren't part of any organization.
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I had been looking at a way to redesign the more "mechanics" style of Prestige Classes. Something similar to what we have as archetypes.
These would be "classes" that simply alter what your class abilities are. Qualifications would likely be minimal (other than maybe needing a particular class ability that the class improves), and instead of getting a new set of BAB, HD, Saves, Skills, etc, you just get an alternative set of Class Specials.
This is like, the other side of the Prestige Class coin to your Prestige Titles. It would probably take over the ones that don't really have any campaign/roleplay specifics to them.
For example, an Assassin class would work better under my idea, while a Red Mantis Assassin would work better under Prestige Titles.
I like this idea.
Nice, i approve this.
I like the idea however it might disrupt party balance. The character with 7 levels and a prestige title will be more powerful than the character with 7 levels and no prestige title. You might want to add some basic prestige titles that don't require joining an organization otherwise characters will feel they must join one, like Kaisoku suggested.
I'd do something like have four basic ones warrior, thief, mage, priest each with decent but somewhat boring abilities that way characters are still motivated to take a prestige title but the player with the anti-social character can still get some somewhat balanced benefit.
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I like the idea however it might disrupt party balance. The character with 7 levels and a prestige title will be more powerful than the character with 7 levels and no prestige title.
Well, it is not so different than the character with 7 levels and fantastic magic items and the character with 7 levels without fantastic magic items.
It really depends on how the GM controls the resources.
I like the idea however it might disrupt party balance. The character with 7 levels and a prestige title will be more powerful than the character with 7 levels and no prestige title.Well, it is not so different than the character with 7 levels and fantastic magic items and the character with 7 levels without fantastic magic items.
It really depends on how the GM controls the resources.
Yes exactly and i was just suggesting that the GM have some mechanic ready to maintain balance if they want to. It it's the fighter getting the prestige title and the wizard not then probably nothing needs done, if it's the other way around then a good GM would help the fighter get something or they would fall even farther behind. Ot at least I would, different strokes for different folks I suppose.
Be careful with your challenges. You don't want it to turn into a list of video game achievements.
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Yes exactly and i was just suggesting that the GM have some mechanic ready to maintain balance if they want to. It it's the fighter getting the prestige title and the wizard not then probably nothing needs done, if it's the other way around then a good GM would help the fighter get something or they would fall even farther behind.I like the idea however it might disrupt party balance. The character with 7 levels and a prestige title will be more powerful than the character with 7 levels and no prestige title.Well, it is not so different than the character with 7 levels and fantastic magic items and the character with 7 levels without fantastic magic items.
It really depends on how the GM controls the resources.
Good points. I want to convert over a bunch of current prestige classes, but I also think this kind of mechanics could handle other ideas that cost you levels to gain entry into. Like the Racial Levels in Arcana Unearthed.
Keeping in mind a variety of different kinds of titles for everybody seems like necessity.
I think this is going to hurt balance. This is going to result in a lot of opportunities to stack weird stuff together. For instance: a fighter could pick up the golden legionnaire's bonuses to attack rolls and stack those with his weapon training. Or people might get a hold of the better living monolith class features while still maintaining either full BAB or full casting. You could also make a master chymist without giving up any casting.
This clearly represents an increase in game power over and above the normal rules. While this isn't necessarily a problem if it's done consistently, I have to reserve judgement until I see some examples of what a Prestige Title might look like.
I'd be interested in seeing what constitutes various challenges.
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I rather like the concept; after reviewing your noble scion example, I like it even more. I have concerns about bonuses or benefits that ignore action economy for combat purposes, and certain stacking class features, but overall, very impressed.
I'd love to see more examples when you have the time.
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Be careful with your challenges. You don't want it to turn into a list of video game achievements.
I don't get the impression from his material that an achievement means "Orc Slayer - Kill 100 orcs."
It looks to me like a challenge might represent a quest or plot hook developed for the specific prestige group. I could be reading into it, however.
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Still working this out for my home game, but thought I'd share. Some mechanics still need some figuring out, names aren't 100% solid, but I think the wacky idea behind it is all good:
Prestige and Achievements
Prestige Classes carry an inherent opportunity cost in the case of levels that might not always reflect the real concept for a character. While Prestige Classes offer a great deal of customization, they don't always feel worth that cost. Lowering a character's base class features in order to obtain levels in a prestige class will drive some players to never take levels that might otherwise be interesting for them.Prestige Titles
This variant replaces prestige classes with a different system altogether. Inspired by Mythic Adventures, the Prestige system replaces prestige classes with a Achievement system: Titles. Like Mythic Tiers, Prestige Achievements aren't the same thing as levels a character obtains, and don't cost any sort of multiclassing. They have requirements like Prestige Classes do, but the First Achievement is earned when a character joins the organization that supports that class for the first time.Characters each new Achievements when they complete Challenges that their Prestige Organization likes and supports. Their title grows in ability as a character completes challenges that reflect the goals and nature of that title.
Characters first can choose to pursue and gain a Title at 5th level. Characters can achieve up to five Achievements in a Prestige Title. In order to join and gain access to a Title and its achievements, characters must first meet the prerequisites of that title.
Peerage: At the first achievement, the character receives a bonus on Diplomacy and Sense Motive checks made against any one else that shares the same title as they do. This bonus is equal to that character's number of Achievements.
Prestige Saves: At the first achievement, the character receives a bonus on saving throws. Each title has its own favored saving throws. On these...
This is an amazing idea. I think it's a great way to get players involved in organisations that exist in the world, lets GMs craft the setting for the players and adds a bit of a Mythic Boost without completely overpowering the character.
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This is a VERY QUICKLY thrown together version of Eldritch Knight, as an example, and is NOT to be taken as a serious and/or complete version. I want to make certain I understand the process you're using in construction. Let me know if I'm close.
Requirements
To qualify to become an eldritch knight, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Spells: Able to cast 3rd-level arcane spells.
Weapon Proficiency: Must be proficient with all martial weapons.
Eldritch Knight's Title Feature: Diverse Training: An eldritch knight adds his level to any levels of fighter he might have for the purpose of meeting the prerequisites for feats (if he has no fighter levels, treat his eldritch knight levels as levels of fighter). He also adds his level to any levels in an arcane spellcasting class for the purpose of meeting the prerequisites for feats.
Favored Saving Throw: Fortitude
Bonus Skill Points At Each Achievement: 2
Bonus Hit Points At Each Achievement: 2
Prestige Class Skills: The eldritch knight's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (nobility and royalty) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), and Swim (Str).
Prestige Abilities:
1st Achievement Abilities: Bonus combat feat.
Capstone: Spell critical: Whenever an eldritch knight successfully confirms a critical hit, he can cast a spell as a swift action. The spell must include the target of the attack as one of its targets or in its area of effect. Casting this spell does not provoke an attack of opportunity. The caster must still meet all of the spell's components and must roll for arcane spell failure if necessary.
In essence, it looks like you're doing HD granted by the class / 2 (round down, I'm assuming) and the class skill bonus is simply X + Int, but drop the Int. The achievement-based abilities are designated with a difficulty/number of challenges/quests/and so on you'd want them to perform to acquire, as well as "relative power level", no?
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It looks to me like a challenge might represent a quest or plot hook developed for the specific prestige group. I could be reading into it, however.
Exactly. I want to use this as way for players to throw more flags at me as a GM. If they work toward a title associated with their Noble family, then I feel I then can throw more encounters and hooks tied with them. The player gets to have them involved more, and I can reward them for accomplishing tasks for them or doing something significant.
As for other examples, I'm going to try and get a martial example and an arcane example done. Some have expressed worry about imbalance, as some prestige class features offset by hurting spellcasting. I'd argue some players will never take some prestige classes or finish them because of such penalties.
I'd like to spin out examples that give martial classes more reason to approach prestige classes, as they feel the least motivated to make the jump.
And thanks for everybody who's given their two cents. I'll take whatever suggestions I can get.
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This is a VERY QUICKLY thrown together version of Eldritch Knight, as an example, and is NOT to be taken as a serious and/or complete version. I want to make certain I understand the process you're using in construction. Let me know if I'm close.
That's it more or less. I also think liberty can be taken to add additional abilities or whatnot to the list of prestige abilities, but that depends on what class is being converted.
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That's it more or less. I also think liberty can be taken to add additional abilities or whatnot to the list of prestige abilities, but that depends on what class is being converted.
Excellent and I agree. I look forward to seeing this develop. Again, I think it's a rather elegant and excellent idea to implement with a cautious eye.
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new type of bonus: Faction
in the greater complex political milieu of a living world, every organization has a relationship with every other organization - interactions between them can be considered an analogy for interactions between individuals: Hostile, Unfriendly, Indifferent, Friendly, Helpful
depending on the relationship status between organizations (which, can sour or sweeten over time), characters who belong to one organization may have a Faction bonus or penalty to social rolls (Diplomacy, Bluff, Intimidate) which pays respect to that characters relative rank within their own organization.
Faction bonus/penalty, X, is a function of your rank (1-5 tiers)
for Strong relations (Hostile, Helpful), +X or -X
for Weak relations (Friendly, Unfriendly), +1/2X or +1/2X
for Neutral relations (Indifferent), +0
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new type of bonus: Faction
in the greater complex political milieu of a living world, every organization has a relationship with every other organization - interactions between them can be considered an analogy for interactions between individuals: Hostile, Unfriendly, Indifferent, Friendly, Helpful
depending on the relationship status between organizations (which, can sour or sweeten over time), characters who belong to one organization may have a Faction bonus or penalty to social rolls (Diplomacy, Bluff, Intimidate) which pays respect to that characters relative rank within their own organization.
Faction bonus/penalty, X, is a function of your rank (1-5 tiers)
for Strong relations (Hostile, Helpful), +X or -X
for Weak relations (Friendly, Unfriendly), +1/2X or +1/2X
for Neutral relations (Indifferent), +0
Clever. Something I shall take note of. :D
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That's it more or less. I also think liberty can be taken to add additional abilities or whatnot to the list of prestige abilities, but that depends on what class is being converted.Excellent and I agree. I look forward to seeing this develop. Again, I think it's a rather elegant and excellent idea to implement with a cautious eye.
Sweet. Also, updated my examples with a version of the Low Templar. I think its a good example of a martial prestige class that needed some love. It's also a class that has features that lead into one another- meant to be flavorful, but this variant subverts that somewhat.
I might try some more homebrew ideas with it too, but still, so far I think the examples help make the idea more appealing.
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Going beyond what are currently Prestige Classes, this could also be a really good way to rebuild some of the more Prestige-Class-like base classes. I'm thinking primarily of Cavalier, Inquisitor, and Paladin (and other holy warrior equivalents -- could have tailored versions for each religion, not necessarily all Lawful Good or even close to it). But you would need finer granularity for these -- 1st Achievement, 3rd Achievement, and Capstone for sure wouldn't be fine-grained enough, and likely even 1st Achievement, 2nd Achievement, 3rd Achievement, 4th Achievement, and Capstone wouldn't even be enough.
The way these classes are built now isn't bad, except that only LG and CE alignments have Paladins or Paladin-equivalents, but this seems an opportunity to do it better. Cavalier actually seems to be already trying to do something like what you are saying by means of the Order abilities, but the Orders are like Witch Patrons -- just sort of faceless things (not even entities like they should be) in the background that give you some extra abilities, but have no character of their own (hmmm . . . maybe I should include Witch in this list?). Inquisitor and Paladin/Antipaladin are so important in their positions in their faiths that you'd think that the respective faiths wouldn't let just any random person enter these positions, but would require some tests of the characters trying to get these classes. Actually, that's true of Cleric as well, but not to as much of an extreme as for the internal security service and the special assault forces (respectively) of the faiths.
Note that 2 Prestige Classes actually do keep you from suffering much of a level cost for taking them: Evangelist, with its Aligned Class feature; and Winter Witch Prestige Class, with its Winter Witchcraft feature (which is basically an Aligned Class feature that is specific to the Winter Witch archetype). These are the exceptions rather than the rule, though: Most Prestige Classes hit you with substantial opportunity cost, especially if you are a spellcaster, and even more especially if you are a spellcaster that traded some spellcasting advancement speed for other class features (basically any spellcaster that is not a full 9/9 caster, and it gets worse if you are an archetype that partially or even wholly traded out spellcasting for something else). An egregious example is Blackfire Adept/Darkfire Adept, which from the Prerequisites seems designed to support entry of Summoners (even specifies "able to cast Summon Monster III as a Spell or Spell-Like Ability", to cover the case in which you don't get the benefit of the recent ruling allowing Spell-Like Abilities to substitute for Spells), but then hits you with reduced rate spellcasting advancement and totally neglects to advance your Summon Monster ability. (It also forgets to specify "Summon Monster III or higher".)
Dot for later.
I'd be interested in seeing what constitutes various challenges.
An example of how I'd view it is an anecdote from my brother's game where he was DMing a player who wanted to join an assassin's guild (without the party knowing).
One stage of joining/proving himself, he was given a task to perform at a particular location in the town. The problem was that there was another applicant that was also given the same task to complete. It was essentially a race to see who could complete, and they were told "Be the first to reach the door and complete your mission".
My brother set it up as a chase scene through the slums. DCs and opponent of a CR a little on the tough side for solo, but doable.
The player was crafty though. He got ahead of the NPC and was able to hide at the point a couple stages before the end, and just as the NPC was about to approach the door, he did a sneak attack, killing him outright.
Fulfilling both the task set before him (reach the door before his opponent), and killing for no reason but to join the assassin guild.
This impressed the guild recruiter, as it fulfilled what was essentially the next stage he'd need to do behind the door, and tied up the loose end of the failed applicant for him all in one shot.
This is the kind of thing that would be a challenge... an encounter-based event, rather than filling a particular quota.
If "survive 100 orcs" sounds like it would fit, I'd write it more as "See that orc outpost there? Take it, on your own. Go." with an encounter map and environment/buildings set specifically for the PC to use and interact with. If the place happens to have 100 orcs written into it, who cares, it's not about killing the exact number, it's about taking the outpost. You aren't here to collect an exact number of scalps, but to succeed at a realistic goal (control the tactical point that the orcs are guarding).
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[...stuff...]
Your post sums up a great example of a "challenge", in my opinion.
...killing for no reason but to join the assassin guild.
I have always felt that was one of the silliest prerequisites in existence. We altered it to "complete an approved task set by an assassins guild handler."
This isn't a criticism of your brother or his player, but of the "requirement" as presented for the class. While this is judgmental on my part, it feels like it was written by a 12 year old (and I've felt that way since it was released in 3.x).
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I think it's supposed to harken to things like spy training. I've seen shows with ex-KGB interviews, or that scene in Jason Bourne's training, where they are basically given a test of how well they follow orders.
They bring a person, hooded, into the room, are handed a gun and told to shoot that person.
If they ask why, or who that person is, or hesitate at all, then they aren't "conditioned" enough yet. But if they just take the gun and shoot, they are ready.
"Sorta man they're like to send believes hard. Kills and never asks why." - Shepard Book
That's what I kind of likened the Assassin requirement to. Not just a "Kill, uh.. that guy" - "Ok!" kind of thing, but rather all the conditioning and utter lack of compunction that comes with that kind of scenario.
I think it's supposed to harken to things like spy training. I've seen shows with ex-KGB interviews, or that scene in Jason Bourne's training, where they are basically given a test of how well they follow orders.
They bring a person, hooded, into the room, are handed a gun and told to shoot that person.
If they ask why, or who that person is, or hesitate at all, then they aren't "conditioned" enough yet. But if they just take the gun and shoot, they are ready."Sorta man they're like to send believes hard. Kills and never asks why." - Shepard Book
That's what I kind of likened the Assassin requirement to. Not just a "Kill, uh.. that guy" - "Ok!" kind of thing, but rather all the conditioning and utter lack of compunction that comes with that kind of scenario.
I definitely get what you're saying. The "Kill, uh.. that guy" - "Ok!" is what I see every time I look at the requirement. I'm anal about it, I have no illusions.=)
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Haha, fair enough!
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Going beyond what are currently Prestige Classes, this could also be a really good way to rebuild some of the more Prestige-Class-like base classes. I'm thinking primarily of Cavalier, Inquisitor, and Paladin (and other holy warrior equivalents -- could have tailored versions for each religion, not necessarily all Lawful Good or even close to it). But you would need finer granularity for these -- 1st Achievement, 3rd Achievement, and Capstone for sure wouldn't be fine-grained enough, and likely even 1st Achievement, 2nd Achievement, 3rd Achievement, 4th Achievement, and Capstone wouldn't even be enough.
I think some sort of holy champion prestige title could be done within this variant. But constructing whole cloth other alignment classes feels like a great plan for a new set of archetypes/alternate classes to me.
But I think as a way to handle doing hybrid prestige classes (Rage Prophet comes to mind) I think that Titles might do way better.
As for Patrons and Orders, that just sounds like wasted RP space. I've always played Witch by specifying whom I've made a pact with in order to be my patron. Was a way to give my GM a way to get my character to do some darker things as a plot hook.
This feels vaguely of the Unearthed Arcana variant prestige classes to me too.
Of course, to partially speak against what I said in my post above, adding more Achievement tiers would run the risk of the same kind of imbalance that the current Mythic system apparently does (haven't used it myself, but I've read the PRD version of it, and seen other people's posts about how it breaks WotR AP, and am thus leery of it). But then again, the Mythic system, aside from any issues of being overpowered, functions as faceless non-entities much like Witch Patrons and Cavalier/Samuria Orders as written, and thus constitutes "wasted RP space". Achievements, if written up properly, would take specific measures to avoid this problem. For preventing imbalance, the total number of Achievement tiers could be limited to one per some number of character levels (sounds like this is what they SHOULD have done for Mythic).
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Of course, to partially speak against what I said in my post above, adding more Achievement tiers would run the risk of the same kind of imbalance that the current Mythic system apparently does (haven't used it myself, but I've read the PRD version of it, and seen other people's posts about how it breaks WotR AP, and am thus leery of it). But then again, the Mythic system, aside from any issues of being overpowered, functions as faceless non-entities much like Witch Patrons and Cavalier/Samuria Orders as written, and thus constitutes "wasted RP space". Achievements, if written up properly, would take specific measures to avoid this problem. For preventing imbalance, the total number of Achievement tiers could be limited to one per some number of character levels (sounds like this is what they SHOULD have done for Mythic).
I'm currently playing in a WotR AP with mythic rules. I think its more of getting the challenges down correct that caused that AP to misfire in some places. But in others, good ol' player incompetence makes up for it.
I dislike limiting anything in this regard, as a GM should be careful with any sort of power players get outside the base assumptions of the game. Prestige is far more easier to justify granting to NPCs than some mythic stuff, so I think it could be 'balanced.' But that gets more to a individual groups' tastes and style. You can't control for every instance I think.
I limited the number of Achievements to five and set challenges as being as numerous because I thought it felt within grasp and easier to accomplish, while being delayed enough that it doesn't pop up as often as Mythic could. Again, thats only if challenges happen. A GM might feel like delaying some challenges- reflecting a real-world concern of internal politics, like having to convince the organization that X deed over there was in fact worth Y recognition.
Things I'd like because it forces RP, but its more of a taste thing again.
Still, understandable points to make.
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This felt like a relevant thing to update this thread with. I've gone and created my first Prestige Title independent of conversion, mostly as a trial to feel out the process. It was a martial title, focusing on an area I think prestige classes have faltered on in Pathfinder the last little while.
The Destreza, is a martial arts school based on the spanish school of the same name. I stole a bunch of ideas from the old Book of Nine Swords for abilities, and created a title based around it.
That said, I'll post more here if I get a chance to playtest any of this out. If you've used this idea, please feel free to share any questions you have and I'll try to adjust to them. Thanks.
I definitely get what you're saying. The "Kill, uh.. that guy" - "Ok!" is what I see every time I look at the requirement. I'm anal about it, I have no illusions.=)I think it's supposed to harken to things like spy training. I've seen shows with ex-KGB interviews, or that scene in Jason Bourne's training, where they are basically given a test of how well they follow orders.
They bring a person, hooded, into the room, are handed a gun and told to shoot that person.
If they ask why, or who that person is, or hesitate at all, then they aren't "conditioned" enough yet. But if they just take the gun and shoot, they are ready."Sorta man they're like to send believes hard. Kills and never asks why." - Shepard Book
That's what I kind of likened the Assassin requirement to. Not just a "Kill, uh.. that guy" - "Ok!" kind of thing, but rather all the conditioning and utter lack of compunction that comes with that kind of scenario.
It's a little non-specific for some. I always read it as simply shorthand for what you changed it to. To be considered a full member of a gang, or a warrior in some cultures, you have to kill someone.
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Requirements: 5 ranks Bluff, 5 ranks Disguise
Skills: Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise, Escape Artist, Intimidate, Knowledge (Local), Knowledge (Nobility), Perception, Perform, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Stealth
Skill Ranks: 6 per tier
Hit Points: 3 per tier
Good Save: Will
Progression
1- Dual Identity, Seamless Guise, Social Talents (choose two)
2- Social Talent
3- Social Talent
4- Social Talent
5- Social Talent
Social Talent Tier Requirement:
Any Guise (5th)
Everyman (3rd)
Feign Innocence (1st)
Great Renown (2nd)
Immediate Change (3rd)
Incredible Renown (3rd)
Instant Recognition (4th)
Loyal Aid (1st)
Many Guises (1st)
Quick Change (1st)
Renown (1st)
Safe House (2nd)
Social Grace (1st)
Subjective Truth (2nd)
This is very interesting.