Goblin Squad Member
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First, I love the 2 new premium items.
I have been wondering what the Smallhold means for the Inns though, both the backer-Inns as well as the PoI ones.
Smallholds seem to offer quit a bit of utility for the price.
The thing I am mostly wondering about is how access to the Smallholding is regulated.
This quote
It can serve as a base of operations for an ad hoc party, a company or for an individual who wants to homestead a place in the wilderness. And it is a meeting place and a communication system for you and your friends.
seems to imply the Smallhold does not necessarily restrict access to a certain Company only.
Can anybody access a Smallhold that he finds in the Wild? Or does someone have to be added to an access-list by the owner?
If the latter is true, and adding players is simple to do, would so many Smallholds not become a competitor to Inns?
Some comparing and musings:
- Smallhold(200 dollar):
- Needs Upkeep;
- Destructable;
- 30-day cooldown, account-wide;
- Acces limitations?
- Interface (at first, will it become an instance, or an open world building once interior is implemented?)
Pro's:
- Power-regen;
- Bindpoint;
- Private Chat;
- Can take player out of the world(Invuln), safe for PvP;
PoI-Inn(built through serious player-effort);
Cons:
- Needs Upkeep;
- Destructable;
- Not safe for PvP;
Pro's:
- Open world building with interior;
- Power-regen;
- No Acces-limitation (unless owning Company decides so, assumption)?
- Power-regen;
- Bindpoint for Company?
- NPC/interface selling buffs/drinks (assumption)
- Basic Skill-training for Bards, Commoners;
- Lodging (logging-off/in perks) (assumption)
- Hop-on/off point for Fast Travel? (stables, assumption)
Backer-Inn (5000 dollar);
Cons:
- Needs Upkeep;
Pro's:
- Non-destructable (if upkeep payed);
- Open World building with interior;
- Power-regen;
- No acces-limitations (unless owner decides so? assumption)
- Bindpoint for Inn-owner?
- NPC/interface selling buffs/drinks (assumption)
- Basic Skill-training for Bards, Commoners;
- Lodging (logging-off/in perks) (assumption)
- Hop-on/off point for Fast Travel? (stables, assumption)
Cons:
There will be a lot of Smallholds in the world, and when access can be set to unrestricted (or the access list can be expanded indefinately) I feel they are going to take away from the "social gathering" aspect of Inns.
I guess this comes down to my fear that Inns and Taverns in a MMO pretty much *always* fail to live up to their true potential, and become ghost-buildings.
Convenience, availability of specific perks and accessability is usually where people gather, and the Smallholds seem to be a pretty cheap contender for this.
If they are Company-only, then some of my fears would subside, though they would still be big contenders.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Who has $200 (or $5,000 for that matter) in spare cash just lying around for a digital only thing that someone can (and will, easily) destroy when the player(s) are at work, school, asleep, or doing an infinite number of things out out of game? This makes no sense to me.
I understand making an in-game structure with in-game resources and in-game labor.
If I had known during the kickstarter that this was the direction the game was going to go, I would have questioned pledging at all, or at least have pledged only the minimum amount.
Seeing this makes me sad that the game, rather than being designed for true roleplay potential, is really only about who has the most free cash and time. Who can devote their waking hours entirely to a game to guard the structures your own, hard-earned, real dollars bought?
It appears to eliminate those of us who work for a living for the most part. Even the well-to-do working stiff can't play 24/7. Am I the only one who sees this as a problem?
I realize that I am pointing out the not-so-popular, yet obvious, elephant in the room and that I will likely be castigated as a result.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Who has $200 (or $5,000 for that matter) in spare cash just lying around for a digital only thing that someone can (and will, easily) destroy when the player(s) are at work, school, asleep, or doing an infinite number of things out out of game? This makes no sense to me.
I understand making an in-game structure with in-game resources and in-game labor.
If I had known during the kickstarter that this was the direction the game was going to go, I would have questioned pledging at all, or at least have pledged only the minimum amount.
Seeing this makes me sad that the game, rather than being designed for true roleplay potential, is really only about who has the most free cash and time. Who can devote their waking hours entirely to a game to guard the structures your own, hard-earned, real dollars bought?
It appears to eliminate those of us who work for a living for the most part. Even the well-to-do working stiff can't play 24/7. Am I the only one who sees this as a problem?
I realize that I am pointing out the not-so-popular, yet obvious, elephant in the room and that I will likely be castigated as a result.
More people than you'd think.
The smallholdings will be indestructible until siege weapons enter the game, and even then, somebody who bought one will be able to place it again after a 30 day cool down. People who pay the $200 will never permanently lose the thing they paid for. They'll just have to wait, then place it again (probably in a different spot).
Pet Peeve/Sidetrack Warning
Not everyone is going to role play, no matter how Goblinworks builds the game. Some people will treat PFO as a video game. Some people will type and speak in character as much as possible. Many of us will be somewhere in the middle, typing in character sometimes, and discussing the best character build for a given purpose at other times.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Smallholds don't have any utility outside of storage/chat. POI's have utility that allows you to get resources from the hex, and other things.
??
You can Bind at a Smallhold, and when you interact with a Smallhold, you disappear from the world and can not be attacked. Even with a limited amount of locations where you can put down a Smallhold in the wild, I can think of various scenarios where having such a safehaven/rallypoint nearby would be very advantageous.
Also not sure what sort of resources a PoI-Tavern would extract from a Hex, but that could be an extra perk of PoI-Taverns for sure.
Mind you, I love it that there will be hundreds of Smallholds and basecamps scattered throughout the lands, it will only add more interaction, strife and cameraderie. Just hoping that Taverns (PoI and backer) will still have a serious edge over Smallholds so they can become real "Hubs in the Wild".
@Dark Sasha The Smallholds can be destroyed but this needs a serious effort from a dedicated group (including Siege-engines); also, the Smallhold "deed" will not be destroyed, you can deploy a new Smallhold after 30 days of cooldown. That is certainly a setback, and a needed one imo, but you did not lose your 200 dollars.
EDIT: sorry Karlbob, did not notice that you already explained that to Dark Sasha. :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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I suspect there will be many advantages for taverns over smallholders.
I wouldn't be surprised if tavern owners gain a portion of any transactions that happen there, probably a storefront for crafters, and refreshments and provisions, other supplies. Possibly they will offer limited crafting facilities? Who knows and why is isn't anyone asking about them?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Smallholds don't have any utility outside of storage/chat. POI's have utility that allows you to get resources from the hex, and other things.??
You can Bind at a Smallhold, and when you interact with a Smallhold, you disappear from the world and can not be attacked. Even with a limited amount of locations where you can put down a Smallhold in the wild, I can think of various scenarios where having such a safehaven/rallypoint nearby would be very advantageous.
Also not sure what sort of resources a PoI-Tavern would extract from a Hex, but that could be an extra perk of PoI-Taverns for sure.
Mind you, I love it that there will be hundreds of Smallholds and basecamps scattered throughout the lands, it will only add more interaction, strife and cameraderie. Just hoping that Taverns (PoI and backer) will still have a serious edge over Smallholds so they can become real "Hubs in the Wild".
@Dark Sasha The Smallholds can be destroyed but this needs a serious effort from a dedicated group (including Siege-engines); also, the Smallhold "deed" will not be destroyed, you can deploy a new Smallhold after 30 days of cooldown. That is certainly a setback, and a needed one imo, but you did not lose your 200 dollars.
I agree again.
Edit: Tyncale, no need to apologize. Sometimes reading something started in two different ways helps.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I suspect there will be many advantages for taverns over smallholders.
I wouldn't be surprised if tavern owners gain a portion of any transactions that happen there, probably a storefront for crafters, and refreshments and provisions, other supplies. Possibly they will offer limited crafting facilities? Who knows and why is isn't anyone asking about them?
I believe people have asked, and if I recall correctly, the answer was "We haven't decided yet."
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think one way to differentiate between Taverns and Smallholds should be that taverns offer perks to a very large percentage of the population, while the Smallhold's perks should be limited to a select few that are affiliated with the Smallhold/owner.
The other redeeming factor of the Tavern could be it's persistance in the world, though this would mostly go for the Backer-tavern. After all, the PoI tavern can be destroyed too, and there may not be another one after that(may decide for a different PoI). Also, I expect some Smallholds to be quit persistant, if they belong to a very dedicated group that have backing from a powerful Settlement.
The last way to differentiate is off course the Taverns offering unique perks: being a hop-on/off point for fast Travel could be such a feature, as well as the NPC's selling potions and other basic wares. Preferably these are playercrafted wares that have to be transported to the Tavern and can then be stocked on the NPC, so others can buy. Even cooler would be if the Owner of the Tavern could set prices according to Reputation, Faction and Alignment. :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think one way to differentiate between Taverns and Smallholds should be that taverns offer perks to a very large percentage of the population, while the Smallhold's perks should be limited to a select few that are affiliated with the Smallhold/owner.
The other redeeming factor of the Tavern could be it's persistance in the world, though this would mostly go for the Backer-tavern. After all, the PoI tavern can be destroyed too, and there may not be another one after that(may decide for a different PoI). Also, I expect some Smallholds to be quit persistant, if they belong to a very dedicated group that have backing from a powerful Settlement.
The last way to differentiate is off course the Taverns offering unique perks: being a hop-on/off point for fast Travel could be such a feature, as well as the NPC's selling potions and other basic wares. Preferably these are playercrafted wares that have to be transported to the Tavern and can then be stocked on the NPC, so others can buy. Even cooler would be if the Owner of the Tavern could set prices according to Reputation, Faction and Alignment. :)
Yea, agreeing with you here, I like a lot of the perk ideas.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Who has $200 (or $5,000 for that matter) in spare cash just lying around for a digital only thing that someone can (and will, easily) destroy when the player(s) are at work, school, asleep, or doing an infinite number of things out out of game?
I've made no secret of the fact that I backed at the tavern level, and obviously you guys know what that backing level cost. Immersion is a HUGE factor for me in determining how much I enjoy a game. Solely owning a piece of an MMO without the drama of leading a faction was right up my alley.
But to your point, the tavern gets free upkeep for six months, and after that, as long as I keep making my upkeep, it can't be destroyed. If the building was open to siege, I wouldn't have dropped $50 on it, much less $5,000.
I know there are several features that have been confirmed (or at least strongly implied) that a tavern will have over a hold...
1. class trainers
2. possibly a cut of service transactions for the owner
3. a wide-open door that enables a public gathering place for RP or social interaction (though obviously that has to be fostered by the owner)
4. NPC guards to keep me and my guests safe (no idea how they'll be factioned)
And it's been communicated to me that they want to do a lot more to leverage taverns as valuable POIs in the future and plans exist to that end. What exactly does that mean, will they follow through, and (if so) when will it happen? I have no idea. But I've got enough trust in the team to take that gamble. However, I fully understand why others wouldn't.
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Goblin Squad Member
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| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Who has $200 (or $5,000 for that matter) in spare cash just lying around for a digital only thing that someone can (and will, easily) destroy when the player(s) are at work, school, asleep, or doing an infinite number of things out out of game?I've made no secret of the fact that I backed at the tavern level, and obviously you guys know what that backing level cost. Immersion is a HUGE factor for me in determining how much I enjoy a game. Solely owning a piece of an MMO without the drama of leading a faction was right up my alley.
But to your point, the tavern gets free upkeep for six months, and after that, as long as I keep making my upkeep, it can't be destroyed. If the building was open to siege, I wouldn't have dropped $50 on it, much less $5,000.
I know there are several features that have been confirmed (or at least strongly implied) that a tavern will have over a hold...
1. class trainers
2. possibly a cut of service transactions for the owner
3. a wide-open door that enables a public gathering place for RP or social interaction (though obviously that has to be fostered by the owner)
4. NPC guards to keep me and my guests safe (no idea how they'll be factioned)
And it's been communicated to me that they want to do a lot more to leverage taverns as valuable POIs in the future and plans exist to that end. What exactly does that mean, will they follow through, and (if so) when will it happen? I have no idea. But I've got enough trust in the team to take that gamble. However, I fully understand why others wouldn't.
Taverns sound very cool, not being destructable makes them even more awesome. My brain just explodes when I think of plunking down $5,000 real dollars for such a thing. I would take myself on a dream vacation to some real place and take lots of photos if I had that much money lying around.
I am sure, though, that folk will appreciate that some are able and willing to buy taverns. If I ever decide to make a character and survive the trip to your tavern, I'll toss back a digital frothy mug in your honor.
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Goblin Squad Member
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My brain just explodes when I think of plunking down $5,000 real dollars for such a thing. I would take myself on a dream vacation to some real place and take lots of photos if I had that much money lying around.
I am sure, though, that folk will appreciate that some are able and willing to buy taverns. If I ever...
I completely get that. And I'd be lying to say I can spend that amount of money on anything in life (particularly a video game) without some degree of buyer's remorse. ;) I think what enabled that purchase was two things. On the practical level, while I'm hardly rich, my wife and I make enough money to buy silly things once in a very great while. On the sentimental level, as I said above, I really like immersion and ownership in games. The "soft value" of having an unassailable piece of the game that I decorated, named, and solely own is worth a lot to me.
And I intend to do what I can to share that with the community as a whole. While I'm a member of Kabal, I have an agreement with the leadership that the tavern will always be neutral. Everyone from every faction is welcome, and I'm working on plans to keep a wide variety of activities going on there for the community to participate in. Scavenger hunts, competitions, IC-performances by bard characters, etc.
