Charisma-using Arcanist? (Or give me a reason not to dump cha on my Arcanist...)

[Takhisis]

As the title says. High int, high cha characters are my ABSOLUTE favorite to play but up until now there has been literally no classes that want good scores in both those stats beyond two VERY specific wizard builds(the necromancy specialist and diablolist respectively). However, with the advent of the advance class guide the first class that uses both intelligence and charisma has been printed in the arcanist. This got me immediately jumping for joy...until it was revealed that the best way to build an Arcanist is to dump cha entirely and choose exploits that don't use cha

However...determined to make my charismatic genius I am turning to all of you. Are ther any Arcanist builds you know of that actually make good use of some of those cha- based abilities? Are there any Arcanist archetypes that making taking some cha(14 would be ideal rp-wise for me though if a build requires more that's fine by me.) more useful? If any of you have any good Arcanist builds that want some cha please share them!

[Brom the Obnoxiously Awesome]

Actually, its generally pretty smart to have high stats in both of the primary stats of your "father classes". In this case, those stats are Int and Cha. While Charisma isn't as important for Arcanist (I think... I don't know too much yet), no one is going to bat an eyelash if you have a slightly high charisma.

[Azten]

Ice Missile, Flame Arc, Acid Jet, and Lifgthning Lance all deal extra damage based on your charisma modifier with a Fortitude(DC 10 + 1/2 level + Cha mod) save to negate their additional effects. Picking up one or two can be a good backup.

[Takhisis]

Ahh.... I was under the impression that all those abilities where considered terrible and not worth it by the OP crowd...I have the guide but have not had the chance to crack it open yet... Did the blasts get a buff since the play test or are they still considered mostly terrible choices?

[Azten]

The aren't d4's, for one, have rider effects, and of course the OP crowd is going to say what's not OP is terrible..

[Suichimo]

Azten wrote:

Ice Missile, Flame Arc, Acid Jet, and Lifgthning Lance all deal extra damage based on your charisma modifier with a Fortitude(DC 10 + 1/2 level + Cha mod) save to negate their additional effects. Picking up one or two can be a good backup.

I wonder why Flame Arc is so much stronger than the others. It hits everything in the 30' line, the others only get to pick one enemy.

[Michael Sayre]

Suichimo wrote:

Azten wrote:

Ice Missile, Flame Arc, Acid Jet, and Lifgthning Lance all deal extra damage based on your charisma modifier with a Fortitude(DC 10 + 1/2 level + Cha mod) save to negate their additional effects. Picking up one or two can be a good backup.

I wonder why Flame Arc is so much stronger than the others. It hits everything in the 30' line, the others only get to pick one enemy.

Maybe because fire is the most commonly resisted element? Boosts your chances of affecting someone if there's a couple tieflings in the crowd.

[Eltacolibre]

Suichimo wrote:

Azten wrote:

Ice Missile, Flame Arc, Acid Jet, and Lifgthning Lance all deal extra damage based on your charisma modifier with a Fortitude(DC 10 + 1/2 level + Cha mod) save to negate their additional effects. Picking up one or two can be a good backup.

I wonder why Flame Arc is so much stronger than the others. It hits everything in the 30' line, the others only get to pick one enemy.

Because it is fire aka everything is immune to fire in the game. It's only useful early on.

[Azten]

Flame Arc is also the one that can have the damage cut in half by a successful saving throw.

[Tacticslion]

Dot.

[Takhisis]

Alright, so how much of a buff did the blasts get since the playtest anyway? Has the damage on them been increased significantly at all? I'll be able to check my pdf in a bit..I just can't open it on mobile.

[ShadowcatX]

You're playing a caster, you don't have to optimize to the 9s. Play the character you want to play.

[Tacticslion]

ShadowcatX wrote:

You're playing a caster, you don't have to optimize to the 9s. Play the character you want to play.

But... my d9s get no love...

[Azten]

Acid Jet, Playtest:

Acid Jet (Su): The arcanist can unleash a jet of acid by expending one point from her arcane reservoir. She can make a ranged touch attack against any one target within 30 feet. If the attack hits, it deals 1d4 points of acid damage, plus 1d4 points of acid damage for every two arcanist levels beyond first (to a maximum of 10d4 at 19th level). The target is also sickened for 1d4 rounds (Fortitude negates).

Now it deals d6 damage and adds the Arcanist's Charisma modifier to the damage.

[Suichimo]

Ssalarn wrote:

Maybe because fire is the most commonly resisted element? Boosts your chances of affecting someone if there's a couple tieflings in the crowd.

Eltacolibre wrote:

Because it is fire aka everything is immune to fire in the game. It's only useful early on.

While I am fully aware of this, it just feels stronger than the other three. At 5th level, this is a smaller Fireball that you can use eight times per day, assuming you only use your base reservoir amount and only on it.

The others only affect one enemy and have a fairly short debuff. Yeah, fire is definitely more commonly resisted, or just ignored, but cold isn't that uncommon either.

These four aren't the best uses of your exploits anyway, though.

[Fearspect]

Unfortunately, there is still no good reason to keep Charisma in the double digits. Sure point to these upgraded elemental exploits, and I'll point to two other exploits that are so much better.

If you got one or two of these free, it would be a different story.

[Chris O'Reilly]

A lot of the exploits people wont take use charisma. The spell resist one lasts for cha rounds, the temp hp one gives hp of your level+cha. The only one I saw that seemed worthwhile was that if you pick a wizard school with uses per day it was cha based. You probably dont need much CHA but I wouldnt go with a 7 either.

Theres an elemental archetype to use d8s for one of the elemental blasts (which get cha to damage). It wont be optimal but I could see it working.

[Takhisis]

Actually, now that I think of it, there is one reason to not dumb cha on an arcanist...to an extent. It's actually the same reason not to dumb it on a wizard, and that's "build a necromancer" Due to an archtype, you can get the full necromancy school, including the command undead feat, this combind with some other abilities can allow you to build an arcanist as a necromancer in the same manner as a wizard, so I guess, like wizards, Arcanists looking to do necromancy are the only ones who won't be totally dumping the stat due to the reliance of command undead on charisma. On the plus side, though, an arcanist dosen't need to take the agent of the grave PrC to get mind-effecting spells on undead, either. They can take the exploit that gives them a sorcerer bloodline instead.....so yeah, I guess the best route for a cha-using arcanist is, once again, the Necromancer?

Also...another question...can you stack archtypes on the arcanist? I ask because stacking the occultist archtype with the school-granting archtype giving you the infernal binder school while likely not 100% optimal sounds like a fun, fun combination in terms of fluff.....a true master of Summon Monster spells! I assume if you can stack archtypes you'd have to take the -familiar- exploit at level 1 to be able to even take the infernal binder school?