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Dear Moobot
You know what... Stay with the kids. I barely like them anyway. They are lousy, stink and brake PC at regular basis.
They stop screaming and crying with ice cream with coke, harry potter films or waffles with honey. Do not give them too much sugar.
I got the alpha and I won't pay nothing.
PS: Oh, I told your address to their mother, she got the chainsaw and left, I guess you are in troooouble. The fact we divorced may be related with her violent spirit state, not sure tho.
Good Luck!
Goblin Squad Member
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Omg you are EVIL!!!!!I am hanging around online to get the rep and alignment back. I had no idea the hit was that bad for such a thing! ;)
That's another one of the things I asked Ryan about while chatting in General. He said he's happy with the way the Reputation system is working, and expressed relief that Alpha didn't turn into Lord of the Flies :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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That's another one of the things I asked Ryan about while chatting in General. He said he's happy with the way the Reputation system is working, and expressed relief that Alpha didn't turn into Lord of the Flies :)Omg you are EVIL!!!!!I am hanging around online to get the rep and alignment back. I had no idea the hit was that bad for such a thing! ;)
On that point, in alpha, when can you attack other players and not lose reputation?
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Goblin Squad Member
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... in alpha, when can you attack other players and not lose reputation?
Short answer is "when they're flagged". Same answer as the rest of the game.
Longer answer would have to distill all the actions which can cause someone to get flagged. Attacking an unflagged character is the easiest way to get flagged yourself.
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Goblin Squad Member
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On that point, in alpha, when can you attack other players and not lose reputation?Right now I think it's just when they have attacked a player and gained the attacker flag
So there is no way to PvP without reputation loss, and according to Morbis, it takes less than a handful of attacks to be barred from entry into a town or training.
There is no Lord of the Flies, because you can't PvP without losing reputation. That is not a terrible thing at this point, but hopefully some form of PvP can be added soon to really test the system.
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Goblin Squad Member
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So there is no way to PvP without reputation loss...That's kind of misleading. Nihimon killed a few other player characters and never lost any Reputation (that I noticed).
But those you had killed had to have lost reputation to begin with. With no reputation neutral way to engage in PvP, you will not have very much PvP because that would require a number of players willing to lose rep.
With such a low threshold of being denied training, few will be willing to lose rep. Until there are rep neutral methods of PvP, no one really has an idea of how the PvP system is really working.
Since the Devs and their personal friends can probably wipe their own rep loss, they should be providing the system with flagged characters to that the "testers" can freely PvP them. Until, neutral rep PvP is introduced.
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Goblin Squad Member
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But those you had killed had to have lost reputation to begin with.I don't believe that's true.
To my understanding, you don't lose Reputation for the first hit on an unflagged opponent, but rather only on the 2nd hit. I'll try to verify if it's working that way this weekend.
I don't think you are getting my point, let me try with a few questions:
1. How does someone become flagged?
2. Do they always lose rep when they become flagged?
I'm not talking about you becoming flagged for defending yourself against a flagged opponent. Nor am I talking about you not losing reputation for defending yourself or for attacking someone who is already flagged.
As the system seems to be now, there would be no PvP unless someone somewhere decided to take a reputation hit. They are limited in how often they can engage in PvP because there is no rep neutral form of PvP.
@ Ryan / Devs,
When will the first rep neutral access to PvP be introduced and in what form?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Or do I gain the ability to freely engage if you respond to my poke?
I'm not 100% sure and will attempt to discover that this weekend.
At the moment, most of the systems that enable you to initiate PvP without losing Reputation (Wars, Feuds, Factions) are not yet implemented (at least I haven't noticed them).
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Goblin Squad Member
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If A attacks B once, and then B attacks A in retaliation, I kinda sorta think it might be a good idea to let A engage B without losing Reputation. In a sense, this becomes the /duel system that everyone's been clamoring for, except you can get killed.
But if "B" is unwilling to lose Rep, "B" won't hit you a second time. So the only PVP that does take place is when one party decides to make their character useless by losing rep. If you don't have anyone willing to do that, you have no PVP.
There is the absence of "Lord of the Flies" Ryan is talking about. It's absent because there is very little PVP taking place, or only initiated by very few players.
Judgement on the reputation system is still out, until you have a rep neutral system in place. Then you will finally have a means of measuring the instances of Rep Loss PVP vs. Rep Neutral PVP.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If A attacks B once, and then B attacks A in retaliation, I kinda sorta think it might be a good idea to let A engage B without losing Reputation. In a sense, this becomes the /duel system that everyone's been clamoring for, except you can get killed.But if "B" is unwilling to lose Rep, "B" won't hit you a second time.
I think you're misunderstanding something.
If A attacks B, B can already retaliate at will and kill A without losing Reputation.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If A attacks B once, and then B attacks A in retaliation, I kinda sorta think it might be a good idea to let A engage B without losing Reputation. In a sense, this becomes the /duel system that everyone's been clamoring for, except you can get killed.But if "B" is unwilling to lose Rep, "B" won't hit you a second time.I think you're misunderstanding something.
If A attacks B, B can already retaliate at will and kill A without losing Reputation.
So neither lose Rep, regardless of who attack first? I think not, someone is going to lose rep.
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Goblin Squad Member
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What has put into my mind this issue is the following statement:
He (Ryan) said he's happy with the way the Reputation system is working, and expressed relief that Alpha didn't turn into Lord of the Flies :)
Alpha didn't turn into LotF (not that it isn't good it didn't) but at the expense of having severely limited PVP. The only way to have PVP in alpha is one party must be willing to lose rep and therefore gimp that character.
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Goblin Squad Member
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OK, what do we *want* to happen?
Scenario 1:
* Attila attacks Benedict once.
* Benedict may respond freely, but Attila has not yet taken rep loss.
* Benedict starts whaling on Attila
* Attila may pursue the engagement freely.
Scenario 2:
* Attila attacks Benedict once.
* Benedict may respond freely, but Attila has not yet taken rep loss.
* Benedict starts whaling on Attila
* Attila may not defend himself without rep loss.
At first glance, I liked the first option better. If Benedict wants to force Attila into reploss for pursuing the fight, he just has to wait for a second poke.
On the other hand, that mechanism could very easily turn into an annoyance tool / newby trap, with griefers walking around poking people once and hoping for a response. (Maybe packs of griefers killing players with one poke each.)
So I think the system needs to be that if you poke somebody and they start beating on you, you have to choose between going down peacefully or taking rep loss. Don't like it? Don't poke. (Or get really good at apologizing fast.)
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Goblin Squad Member
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(Maybe packs of griefers killing players with one poke each.)
If the target dies within a certain time frame of your attack, you take Rep Loss even if you only poked them once.
So I think the system needs to be that if you poke somebody and they start beating on you, you have to choose between going down peacefully or taking rep loss. Don't like it? Don't poke. (Or get really good at apologizing fast.)
This is why I said I "kinda sorta think it might" be a good idea. I really don't know. I trust the devs to have already pondered through this stuff, and to get it right, though.
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Goblin Squad Member
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In alpha, right now, I do not believe there is a way to engage in a real fight between two players where one player does not lose rep. Key phrase there is "right now". Right now, there are none of the cases identified as desirable PVP implemented in game. Therefore, right now, anyone instigating PVP should be recognized by the system as undesirable. This is how the reputation system is supposed to work.
Does that impact testing PVP balance/functions of skills on players? Yes. But I'm fairly comfortable with the expectation that as alpha goes on, we'll get something to use for that purpose. My personal expectation is a PVP hex set up to emulate one of the tower hexes during their open PVP window, which would allow testing of pvp mechanics, transition from protected to FFA hexes, and notification systems which will be needed for the War of the Towers.
The Demo Room was pretty good for testing PvP, I found. Also, can't you make throwaway characters?
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Goblin Squad Member
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The Demo Room was pretty good for testing PvP, I found. Also, can't you make throwaway characters?
Yes, but then you can only do testing with starter or near-starter abilities. I suspect the desire is to try it with more XP-intensive abilities, or a more diverse suite of abilities.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think EE will be very different than Alpha, because there won't be throwaway characters or server wipes, and characters will persist long enough to reach some of the really interesting combat feats.
I hope we'll have at least some of the rep-neutral PVP systems during EE, because OE would be a terrible time to introduce rep-neutral PVP. That paradigm shift should happen long before the general public arrives.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think EE will be very different than Alpha, because there won't be throwaway characters or server wipes, and characters will persist long enough to reach some of the really interesting combat feats.
I hope we'll have at least some of the rep-neutral PVP systems during EE, because OE would be a terrible time to introduce rep-neutral PVP. That paradigm shift should happen long before the general public arrives.
It's my understanding that's the reason the War of the Towers was introduced, as a quick and easy method to get some form of sanctioned PVP in until the more involved systems were ready to deploy.