i plan to play archon aasimar cleric of gorum.
we start at level 9 - so much planning is in order.
lvl 11 or 13 i want to gain the wings feat.
the idea is to be a caster that also fight. the way i see "war gorum" is not only charging in - but mastering all the boons of the god to make others better as well, b uff your self, cast, summon and charge in...
i got a real dilema with domains... gorum got amazing options:
1) rage
2) ferocity
3)heroism
4) tactics
1&2 allow many times a day of smite aility. making your attacks hurt.
power attacking, vital strike a large great sword with smite is nothing to make fun at...
3&4 offer less melee more tactical version. heroism offer amazing swift action buff that can effect all including summons, and hold some nice spells.
tactics offer great utility with lvl 8 power.
any one had any experiance? ofc, the added spells are also something to think about.
so, which 2 among the 4 should i take?
second Q:
channel positive for off combat healing Vs negetive for channel smite (and maybe guided hand) feat?
last Q:
feats....
option 1: (going well with tactics and glory)
1-sacred summon
3- power attack
5&7-augument summon
9 angelic blood
11 angel wings.
option 2:
1-channel smite (negetive..)
3-guided hand
5-power attack
6-toughness
7- Angelic Blood
9-vital strike
11- angleic wings
this option allow lower str, 14-15 tops, while boosting wis up.
no votes?
which among those to take ?
1) rage
2) ferocity
3) heroism
4) tactics
I'd take Rage and Ferocity, myself, just for the brutalization factor.
rage & Ferocity both have stackable smite, with wis of 18 its 14 attacks a day for 1/2 extra daamge. not bad.
i doubt i'd take channel smite (as healing option is always better).
so - smites are nice.
B-U-T:
strength surge - sucks! its a poor lvl 8 power!
it add nothing usable, making even the big buff of enlarge person so-so.
lvl 2&3 spell of those domains are the same (bulls' & rage).
so.... wont heroism for stackble heroism buff (spell and aura) add more than the smites?
it's, +2\+2 hit and damage - not to mention it buff the rest of the party.
lets analyze:
lvl 1 power:
ferocity> rage > tactics.
heroism is... hard to compare, great with UMD .
lvl 8 power:
heroism >tactics > rage > ferocity
looking also at spells added:
lvl 1: Ferocity >rage>glory>tactics
enlarge person > true strike >shield of faith > magic weapon
lvl 2: rage=Ferocity >heroism>tactics
bull’s strength =bull’s strength > bless weapon >aid
lvl 3: glory > tactics > rage=Ferocity
heroism >magic vestment >rage =rage
lvl4: tactics > ferocity >rage >heroism
divine power, > spell immunit> inflict critical wounds >holy smite
lvl5:ferocity = heroism > rage >tactics
righteous might =righteous might > greater command >shout
lvl6: heroism > tactics>ferocity > rage
grt heroism >blade barrier >mass bulls > moonstruck
lvl 7:heroism >ferocity > rage=tactics
holy sword >grasping hand > Power word blind = disintegrate
lvl 8+9, not important
You asked which ones we'd take, I told you.
Yeah, heroism is better, but if I were making a cleric of Gorum, I'd take those 'cause they feel more Gorumy to me, and more fun.
Hehe... True.
So, it's ferocity And rage for smite and flavor
Vs
Rage and glory for optimazatuon. ( although losing enlarge person hurts ! Sad the ferocity lvl 8 power is the worse of them all, or am I missing something ?)
If it were me, I'd take Korgess and do Strength-Ferocity and travel. Korgess still uses a Greatsword. He's the god of competition (among other things). Travel gives you an extra 10' of movement which is great for if you're wearing heavy armor.
Are you dead set on the Rage subdomain? Personally, I'd just go with Ferocity and Destruction. You lose Rage to pick up the Destructive Aura, which is a decent (if risky) buff AoE, and then you only have a single spell overlap, and you retain the stacked smiting. Wreak havoc on the battlefield while also being some extra help to your allies when needed (especially if you've got some crit fiends in the group, Destructive Aura's gonna be a big help).
claudekennilol wrote: If it were me, I'd take Korgess and do Strength-Ferocity and travel. Korgess still uses a Greatsword. He's the god of competition (among other things). Travel gives you an extra 10' of movement which is great for if you're wearing heavy armor. Korgess ? Where is he from ?
i'm a big fan of the Wis based melee cleric!
i played one (who worshiped Gorum) at 6th and 11th and he was awesome at both. i went base aasimar (for the stats) and channeled negative energy; took strength[ferocity] and destruction[rage] for domains.
at 6th level he had like +4 BAB, +5 Wis, +1 weapon, and usually +3 divine favor (with fate's favored)... -2 from power attack that put him at a respectable +11 to hit for 2d6 +3 Str, +6 PA, +1 weapon, +3 divine favor, +3 destruction smite, +3 ferocity smite, +3d6 channel smite (save for 1/2 of the 3d6), or 5d6+19. plus high enough DCs to still use spells like hold person.
by 11th there were too many different buffs available to accurately do a 'typical' going into combat block, but even just updating the ones from above: +8 BAB, +7 Wis, +3 weapon, +4 divine favor, -0 PA (furious focus) = +20 to hit for 10d6+32 (4d6 vital strike, +6 Str, +9 PA, +3 weapon, +4 divine favor, +5 destruction smite, +5 ferocity smite, +6d6 channel smite). and the one time i had to fight something in an antimagic field rage came in awfully handy. not bad for a full caster, lol.
Loup Blanc wrote: Are you dead set on the Rage subdomain? Personally, I'd just go with Ferocity and Destruction. You lose Rage to pick up the Destructive Aura, which is a decent (if risky) buff AoE, and then you only have a single spell overlap, and you retain the stacked smiting. Wreak havoc on the battlefield while also being some extra help to your allies when needed (especially if you've got some crit fiends in the group, Destructive Aura's gonna be a big help). Dead set ? Ofc not .
But rage is another stackable bonus ...
Destruction aura will kill my friends ...
But smite (3+wis)*2 is indeed great for a melee cleric .
Pity no animal to ride and charge with a lance ....
I like the ferocity and rage subdomain combination. While I personally prefer tactics, I will admit my Gorumite was for Kingmaker, so I wanted him to be less destructive and more general-like.
Feat wise, the second set looks good, but Toughness isn't retroactive, so you would only get 1 hit point per level after you take it. I'd swap it out for Furious Focus. Even with Guided Hand, you are a 3/4 BAB attack class, so the Power Attack penalty can add up. Furious Focus will help with that for at least one attack a round.
Phntm888 wrote: Toughness isn't retroactive, so you would only get 1 hit point per level after you take it. I'd swap it out for Furious Focus. Toughness is retroactive. that said, (IMHO) you should still really try to make room in this build for furious focus (especially if you're going the vital strike route).
edit: it would require a major feat overhaul, but you could get a mount if you took the nature soul/animal ally/boon companion tree... of course, no guided hand on the lance...
nate lange wrote: i'm a big fan of the Wis based melee cleric!
i played one at 6th and 11th and he was awesome at both. i went base aasimar (for the stats) and channeled negative energy; took strength[ferocity] and destruction[rage] for domains.
at 6th level he had like +4 BAB, +5 Wis, +1 weapon, and usually +3 divine favor (with fate's favored)... -2 from power attack that put him at a respectable +11 to hit for 2d6 +3 Str, +6 PA, +1 weapon, +3 divine favor, +3 destruction smite, +3 ferocity smite, +3d6 channel smite (save for 1/2 of the 3d6), or 5d6+19. plus high enough DCs to still use spells like hold person.
by 11th there were too many different buffs available to accurately do a 'typical' going into combat block, but even just updating the ones from above: +8 BAB, +7 Wis, +3 weapon, +4 divine favor, -3 PA = +17 to hit for 10d6+32 (4d6 vital strike, +6 Str, +9 PA, +3 weapon, +4 divine favor, +5 destruction smite, +5 ferocity smite, +6d6 channel smite). and the one time i had to fight something in an antimagic field rage came in awfully handy. not bad for a full caster, lol.
Seem legit and nice build !
Are you using wis to hit with channel smite &guided hand ?
Ain't the doc for channel so low it's always better to take positive for after combat heals ?
It's even viable after the 10 + 10 Semites are over . Seem as good as heroism really.
I would add sacred summon for "buff time", even without augument summon.
And Ofc angelic wings for amazing endless flight.... So many feats !
2 Q for your build :
Thought on spring attack ? With angelic wings it seem legit.
Worth 3 expensive feats ?
Another , feats :
1-channel smite
3-power attack
5-guided hand
7-sacred summon or furious focus or heavy armor
9- vital strike
11-angelic blood
13- angelic wings
Or 11/13 take augment summons
Feat build #2 :no guided hand, str focus.
1-dodge
3-power attack
5-mobility
7-spring attack
9- angel blood
11- angelic wings
nate lange wrote: Phntm888 wrote: Toughness isn't retroactive, so you would only get 1 hit point per level after you take it. I'd swap it out for Furious Focus. Toughness is retroactive. that said, (IMHO) you should still really try to make room in this build for furious focus (especially if you're going the vital strike route). It is? I was under the impression it wasn't. Good to know for future reference. Thanks.
I like the first feat build better. I don't see Spring Attacking as very thematic for a follower of Gorum.
I wouldn't worry about summoning. If you're a battle cleric, your focus should be battle. Gorum is all about the butt-kicking, though, so as long as you're crushing your enemies and having fun with it, it works.
{note- i edited the combat numbers, i had forgotten about furious focus}
i don't remember the exact order that i took the feats in but it was very similar to this:
1- channel smite
3- guided hand
5- power attack
7- quicken spell
9- furious focus
11- vital strike
13- arcane strike
traits: fate's favored and magical lineage[divine favor]
i know this leaves out the wings you really want so you'll have to make some adjustments but it worked really well (for me at least) to be able to open combat with quickened divine favor (for +3/+3) at 7th level, and you qualify for arcane strike with the racial SLA which always has a CL equal to your character level so that's some nice free damage in rounds you're not casting quickened spells.
regarding channel- if you take positive channel it'll really only be useful for cleaning up damage in between fights (otherwise you need selective channel, which you can't afford, and you're wasting actions that could be attacks or control spells). between fight healing is what items are for, get the party to pitch in for some wands/scrolls/potions. i went vanilla aasimar and had a pretty decent Cha, so that helped with the save DC (and gave more uses), plus its a Will save so most of the things you really want to hit with it will have a poor save. on top of that, i just figured that even if they make the save its better to do half the normal bonus damage than to channel a heal in combat and have it patch up an enemy...
edit: i'm even hazier on this but i think his starting stats were Str 14; Dex 10; Con 12; Int 8; Wis 16+2race; Cha 14+2race. not your typical melee guy, lol. his AC was never very good, and his HP were nothing to write home about, but he dealt enough damage that most things that came after him could be burned down before he was in really danger and he always had some control spells ready in case he got overwhelmed.
channel negative + channel smite, go with Ferocity and Destruction for extra smityness
otherwise, Protean and Tactics for a nice selection of abilities and spells.
Keep in mind that an aasimar is a native outsider - not a humanoid - so isn't affected by Enlarge Person unless you take the Scion of Humanity alternate racial trait.
I had a tiefling cleric of Gorum who was going to use Enlarge Person in a similar manner and was saddened to find this out.
666bender wrote: claudekennilol wrote: If it were me, I'd take Korgess and do Strength-Ferocity and travel. Korgess still uses a Greatsword. He's the god of competition (among other things). Travel gives you an extra 10' of movement which is great for if you're wearing heavy armor. Korgess ? Where is he from ? You know what, scratch that. I thought he uses a Greatsword but turns out it's a javelin. (I also misspelled it)
Gods and Magic wrote:
Kurgess
NG
Areas of Concern: competition, bravery, sport
Domains: Community, Good, Luck, Strength, Travel javelin
Kurgess (The Strong Man): This strongman demigod
was a favorite of Cayden Cailean and Desna in life, and it is
commonly understood that those two deities helped elevate
him to divinity after his death; some believe he is actually
their half-mortal son. His traveling priests are welcomed
at temples of Cayden and Desna with open arms.
So if you don't already have martial weapon proficiency then I'd just stick with Gorum. Again, if it were me, since it looks like you want to focus on combat, I'd take 1 level as fighter for the bonus feat at lvl 1 and the point of BAB so you can start off with Power Attack (or wait til lvl 3..ugh) and also get all of the martial weapon proficiencies.
nate lange wrote: {note- i edited the combat numbers, i had forgotten about furious focus}
i don't remember the exact order that i took the feats in but it was very similar to this:
1- channel smite
3- guided hand
5- power attack
7- quicken spell
9- furious focus
11- vital strike
13- arcane strike
traits: fate's favored and magical lineage[divine favor]
i know this leaves out the wings you really want so you'll have to make some adjustments but it worked really well (for me at least) to be able to open combat with quickened divine favor (for +3/+3) at 7th level, and you qualify for arcane strike with the racial SLA which always has a CL equal to your character level so that's some nice free damage in rounds you're not casting quickened spells.
regarding channel- if you take positive channel it'll really only be useful for cleaning up damage in between fights (otherwise you need selective channel, which you can't afford, and you're wasting actions that could be attacks or control spells). between fight healing is what items are for, get the party to pitch in for some wands/scrolls/potions. i went vanilla aasimar and had a pretty decent Cha, so that helped with the save DC (and gave more uses), plus its a Will save so most of the things you really want to hit with it will have a poor save. on top of that, i just figured that even if they make the save its better to do half the normal bonus damage than to channel a heal in combat and have it patch up an enemy...
edit: i'm even hazier on this but i think his starting stats were Str 14; Dex 10; Con 12; Int 8; Wis 16+2race; Cha 14+2race. not your typical melee guy, lol. his AC was never very good, and his HP were nothing to write home about, but he dealt enough damage that most things that came after him could be burned down before he was in really danger and he always had some control spells ready in case he got overwhelmed.
Totally forgot about arcane strike ! Great power !
Quicken seem nice - although at fourth level there are amazing spells ....
yeah... there are great spells at pretty much every level, i just wanted to get quickened divine favor as early as reasonably possible. the way i justified it to myself was that i prepared those instead of divine powers because even though the bonuses weren't quite as good the action economy more than made up for it... if i had a round to buff before attacking i'd generally opt for righteous might instead of divine power anyways, so if i had a surprise round or combat started with the enemies more that a single move/charge away or something i would cast quick divine favor, cast righteous might, and move into position- then round 2 i could move to enemy and vital strike/smite/smite/smite with arcane strike on.
Remember that channel smite and arcane strike both take a swift to activate
Ye, but channel smite is limited...
Great advice !
If I go guided hand for super to hit and spells than no dip out and channel smite is a must.
If go str > wis than might as well channel positive .
Both work amazing with the combine smite domains . Nice.
My only remark is con 12 is way too low .... There is an assimar with con/wis bonus - might be as good as a cha. Build .
claudekennilol wrote: 666bender wrote: claudekennilol wrote: If it were me, I'd take Korgess and do Strength-Ferocity and travel. Korgess still uses a Greatsword. He's the god of competition (among other things). Travel gives you an extra 10' of movement which is great for if you're wearing heavy armor. Korgess ? Where is he from ? You know what, scratch that. I thought he uses a Greatsword but turns out it's a javelin. (I also misspelled it)
Gods and Magic wrote:
Kurgess
NG
Areas of Concern: competition, bravery, sport
Domains: Community, Good, Luck, Strength, Travel javelin
Kurgess (The Strong Man): This strongman demigod
was a favorite of Cayden Cailean and Desna in life, and it is
commonly understood that those two deities helped elevate
him to divinity after his death; some believe he is actually
their half-mortal son. His traveling priests are welcomed
at temples of Cayden and Desna with open arms.
So if you don't already have martial weapon proficiency then I'd just stick with Gorum. Again, if it were me, since it looks like you want to focus on combat, I'd take 1 level as fighter for the bonus feat at lvl 1 and the point of BAB so you can start off with Power Attack (or wait til lvl 3..ugh) and also get all of the martial weapon proficiencies. The only good thing about javalin, is guided hand work great as melee and thrown....
Lol, heck - getting a thrown returning 2 handed sword (and keen?) is amazing here ....
I'm currently playing a gorumite and went through a similar dilemma regarding domains. I went for Evangelist archetype and Heroism. At level 8, swift action for the aura and move action to start inspire courage, leaving a standard action for attack (if someone is in your face) or a buff spell for you or your party.
Oh and I picked a spell storing weapon to add an inflict spell.
Dreaming Warforged wrote: I'm currently playing a gorumite and went through a similar dilemma regarding domains. I went for Evangelist archetype and Heroism. At level 8, swift action for the aura and move action to start inspire courage, leaving a standard action for attack (if someone is in your face) or a buff spell for you or your party.
Oh and I picked a spell storing weapon to add an inflict spell.
Nice ! Although that archetype fit other gods more . Gorum can have heroism, valor Viking style but less of buffing others . Also, giving up some armor and spontaneous healing is a price
Darigaaz the Igniter wrote: Remember that channel smite and arcane strike both take a swift to activate thanks- its been a while since i played the character and i had forgotten that channel smite took a swift action... arcane strike could still be usefully for rounds you can't use it, but with quicken spell too there are probably better options (like extra channel or improved channel).
and actually... inner sea gods wasn't out when i played but deific obedience would be pretty sweet. its a decent feat on its own (at 12th you'd have the SLA boon), but if you have the patience to delay PA it could be great for an evangelist build (the PrC, not the archetype)... if you stuck with a base aasimar you could go:
1- channel smite
3- deific obedience
5- guided hand
7- quicken spell
9- power attack
11- furious focus
13- vital strike
that way you can go cleric 3/evangelist 10... you end up 1 level behind on spells/channel/domain powers but you get a handful of bonuses, all 3 boon abilities, and spiritual form (which gives +4 to one stat and wings)
|
