Poisoned by a summone creature

[Diego Rossi]

When a summoned creature dies or the spell end ll of its possessions disappear.

What happen if the summoned creature has poisoned someone and the poison is still affecting the target?

The damage clearly stay, but, AFAIK, the poison itself part of the creature, so it should disappear, stopping immediately its effect.

[FrodoOf9Fingers]

I've had the same question once, but extended with using a Chalice of Poison Weeping to create usable poisons (back when I was rather new to the boards). The consensus was the poison continues it course, though that wasn't based on anything solid, and there wasn't that many people commenting.

[Diego Rossi]

Yes, I found your post doing a search before starting this thread. I even vaguely remember when it was posted originally.

[FrodoOf9Fingers]

Apon further investigation, I believe the poison continues to exist.

CRB, Magic wrote:

Summoning: A summoning spell instantly brings a creature or object to a place you designate. When the spell ends or is dispelled, a summoned creature is instantly sent back to where it came from, but a summoned object is not sent back unless the spell description specifically indicates this.

While this may be a loop hole for getting items you want (such as summoning a creature that uses weapons, telling it to drop it's stuff, and then whisking it away), I feel the bolded part indicates that objects stay. I consider poison to be an object, therefore it would stay when the creature itself leaves, allowing it's full effects on it's victim.

If it weren't for the following line describe what happens at death we would start to enter the "is a dead body an object" realm of rules O.o

[Shadowdweller]

The poison is not part of a creature when it is inside something else. If one is going to take the insane hyperliteralist perspective that all former bits of a summoned creature disappear with the summon - then one has to come to grips with the fact that the poison isn't even an 'object'. It's a condition (/affliction). Conditions don't automagically disappear when the creature that inflicted them goes away.

[Diego Rossi]

FrodoOf9Fingers wrote:

Apon further investigation, I believe the poison continues to exist.

CRB, Magic wrote:

Summoning: A summoning spell instantly brings a creature or object to a place you designate. When the spell ends or is dispelled, a summoned creature is instantly sent back to where it came from, but a summoned object is not sent back unless the spell description specifically indicates this.

While this may be a loop hole for getting items you want (such as summoning a creature that uses weapons, telling it to drop it's stuff, and then whisking it away), I feel the bolded part indicates that objects stay. I consider poison to be an object, therefore it would stay when the creature itself leaves, allowing it's full effects on it's victim.

If it weren't for the following line describe what happens at death we would start to enter the "is a dead body an object" realm of rules O.o

The summon monster and summon natural ally spells don't summon an object, they summon a creature that can have some gear. The creature and all of its equipment disappear when the creature is killed, dismissed or the spell end.

The piece you cite is for spells that summon objects, like Instant Summons.

If we use your interpretation,e very time we summon some creature with gear the gear would be left on the ground at the end of the spell, even if it was in possession of the summoned creature, as the bolded section say "a summoned object is not sent back unless the spell description specifically indicates this."

@Shadowdweller :

PRD wrote:

When the spell that summoned a creature ends and the creature disappears, all the spells it has cast expire.

So something being an effect don't make it automatically immune to being cancelled.

From there to saying that the poison effect end is a big and maybe questionable jump of logic, but if I summon something that can cast blindness and he blinds someone, that effect end when the summoned creature disappear.

It is a bit strange to have one effect persist and the one end when the creature disappear.

Same thing for a curse spell. An affliction, but it end when the summoned creature disappear.

[LazarX]

If a condition is inflicted upon you by a summoned creature, it does not go away when the creature does. You now have full ownership of that condition.

[Diego Rossi]

If it is inflicted by a spell or spell like ability it is pretty clear that it disappear.

[Brf]

Supposed the Summoned creature casts a death spell, that inflicts the condition "Dead". Would that condition disappear when the summoned creature disappears?

[Diego Rossi]

Brf wrote:

Supposed the Summoned creature casts a death spell, that inflicts the condition "Dead". Would that condition disappear when the summoned creature disappears?

Spell that kill someone have an immediate duration, so there is nothing to cancel. Same thing for healing spells.

Instead Bestow Curse has a duration of permanent, exactly as Continual flame. Both go away when the summoned creature disappear.

If you can find a spell that impose the dead condition with a duration different than immediate, yes, there is a problem.

Maybe cloudkill can be considered one, but it inflict damage and the inflicted damage don't go away, what go away is the spell and its continuous effect.

[Lifat]

Diego Rossi wrote:

Brf wrote:

Supposed the Summoned creature casts a death spell, that inflicts the condition "Dead". Would that condition disappear when the summoned creature disappears?

Spell that kill someone have an immediate duration, so there is nothing to cancel. Same thing for healing spells.

Instead Bestow Curse has a duration of permanent, exactly as Continual flame. Both go away when the summoned creature disappear.

If you can find a spell that impose the dead condition with a duration different than immediate, yes, there is a problem.

Maybe cloudkill can be considered one, but it inflict damage and the inflicted damage don't go away, what go away is the spell and its continuous effect.

Thank you Diego. I've had problems in the past with people using summoned creatures to get semi-free buffs. At least now it is limited to instantaneous effects or limited to the duration of the summon spell.

[Diego Rossi]

Remember the difference between called and summoned creatures.

Called creature don't have this limitation.

[Durngrun Stonebreaker]

This reminds me of a game where a important plot item was swallowed by a summoned giant frog. Good times.

[Lifat]

Diego Rossi wrote:

Remember the difference between called and summoned creatures.

Called creature don't have this limitation.

Yup. No worries, I had that one down, but thanks for the reminder.

[DrakeRoberts]

Diego Rossi wrote:

Instead Bestow Curse has a duration of permanent, exactly as Continual flame. Both go away when the summoned creature disappear.

Citation? I realize it may be a simple "core book rules", and if so, my apologies. I'm at work, so search tmes are limited. :)

[Kelarith]

Agree with Drake, I'd like to see the citation for Bestow Curse disappearing when the summoned creature disappears.

[Rikkan]

DrakeRoberts wrote:

Diego Rossi wrote:

Instead Bestow Curse has a duration of permanent, exactly as Continual flame. Both go away when the summoned creature disappear.

Citation? I realize it may be a simple "core book rules", and if so, my apologies. I'm at work, so search tmes are limited. :)

Bestow curse: Duration permanent

Spell Descripitons: Duration wrote:

Permanent: The energy remains as long as the effect does. This means the spell is vulnerable to dispel magic.

Spell Descriptions wrote:

Summoning: A summoning spell instantly brings a creature or object to a place you designate. When the spell ends or is dispelled, a summoned creature is instantly sent back to where it came from, but a summoned object is not sent back unless the spell description specifically indicates this. A summoned creature also goes away if it is killed or if its hit points drop to 0 or lower, but it is not really dead. It takes 24 hours for the creature to reform, during which time it can't be summoned again.

When the spell that summoned a creature ends and the creature disappears, all the spells it has cast expire. A summoned creature cannot use any innate summoning abilities it may have.

[DrakeRoberts]

Thank you.

[Lifat]

Rikkan wrote:

DrakeRoberts wrote:

Diego Rossi wrote:

Instead Bestow Curse has a duration of permanent, exactly as Continual flame. Both go away when the summoned creature disappear.

Citation? I realize it may be a simple "core book rules", and if so, my apologies. I'm at work, so search tmes are limited. :)

Bestow curse: Duration permanent

Spell Descripitons: Duration wrote:

Permanent: The energy remains as long as the effect does. This means the spell is vulnerable to dispel magic.

Spell Descriptions wrote:

Summoning: A summoning spell instantly brings a creature or object to a place you designate. When the spell ends or is dispelled, a summoned creature is instantly sent back to where it came from, but a summoned object is not sent back unless the spell description specifically indicates this. A summoned creature also goes away if it is killed or if its hit points drop to 0 or lower, but it is not really dead. It takes 24 hours for the creature to reform, during which time it can't be summoned again.

When the spell that summoned a creature ends and the creature disappears, all the spells it has cast expire. A summoned creature cannot use any innate summoning abilities it may have.

And that ladies and gentlemen was the perfect post. Short and to the point, with all the relevant information right there and backed up with quotes. Props to Rikkan.