This is a tactic I have used in home games, as have friends. We just approximate the size of the ship created based on the keelboat the equipment section (15x50, I believe, is its smallest dimensions).
As such, can a swan boat feather token be created into a too-small space (like activating inside a monster that has swallowed you whole)?
Can a swan boat feather token be activated anywhere (thus creating a battlefield fort for 24 hrs, blocking a castle gate, falling off a cliff onto a horde of enemies below)?
Does a swan boat deal 10d6 falling damage, or 20d6?
If you activate a swan boat in order to fall on top of enemies, do you need to target a single creature (as per dropping objects on people), target a square, or roll randomly to determine ship's facing and have it act as an area effect (Ref for half?)?
I really want to fly over the enemies and drop a ship on them.
Remember a feather token (Swan Boat) takes a standard action to activate (since it doesn't say otherwise) and as such, takes about 3 seconds to reach full size. The exception is the Tree, as that is called out to be instantaneous.
Other magics that shrink/enlarge (such as Enlarge Person) have rules about what happens when there's not enough room. The Swan Boat likely behaves similarly. Remember too that if you activate it in the stomach of some monster that's swallowed you, you will be pressed against that stomach as well.
I don't think you can target a single creature with a falling swan boat, because how do you aim or otherwise influence where it lands ? This is firmly in "ask your GM" territory.
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This is what you use shrink item for.
Fun info (which I use to guesstimate weight of super-characters who can turn into stone or whatever, but is handy for these sorts of things as well), if you don't have 'How Heavy is My Giant?' from the Best of Dragon.
I can agree on the using it inside a stomach not working. Makes sense. I just like being unconventional.
As for the activation, a standard action activation at the beginning of your turn, while a couple hundred feet above a horde of enemies would still produce a falling swan boat before your turn ends, correct?
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EvilMinion, the text of the item says "A token that forms a swan-like boat capable of moving on water at a speed of 60 feet. It can carry eight horses and gear, 32 Medium characters, or any equivalent combination. The boat lasts for 1 day."
Forms, not summons.
If you are arguing from the stance that the spell major creation is used in the item's creation, and that spell is a conjuration spell, then I can at least follow your reasoning. Note, though, that major creation is a conjuration (creation) spell, not a conjuration (summoning) spell. Also, the spell only creates 1 cubic foot per caster level, and the duration is much less than the swan boat, and the casting time is much longer. Ergo, the magic item does inot act like the spell used to create it.
Under the conjuration school section, it says, "A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it."
Okay, this applies to spells. Agreed. I do not agree that it applies to magic items, though.
Further, if this is the case, summoning a ship onto land where enemies are present should still damage them for massive crushing damage, and would still create a ship that persists for 24 hours, yes?
Neither is a boulder dropped off a ledge. Or an improvised weapon. Or a cow loaded into a catapult. But they're all going to kill or maim somebody.
The aura of the magic item determines what magic was used to create it. It doesn't dictate that the magic item is a spell of of that school.
The first bit in the Magic Items section of the rules state,
"When detect magic identifies a magic item's school of magic, this information refers to the school of the spell placed within the potion, scroll, or wand, or the prerequisite given for the item. The description of each item provides its aura strength and the school to which it belongs.
If more than one spell is given as a prerequisite, use the highest-level spell. If no spells are included in the prerequisites, use the following default guidelines."
I think this falls under the topic of: If you try this with the wrong GM, you're gonna have a bad time.
And I'm one of them. The game isn't meant to work like this, and though there doesn't seem to be something in the rules that precludes using the item in this manner the Gentlemen's Agreement™ usually precludes doing things like this. If I were your GM expect that insisting that it functions results in it functioning on your party.
Ship is being 'brought into being'. You cannot bring it into being in an empty space, therefore it cannot fall any distance (even a few feet) to crush people.
Yes, this applies to magic items. The "spells section" applies to many other areas that are not directly spells because even though the Devs wrote it primarily for spells it also covers many other areas such as spell-like abilities, supernatural abilities, and magic items effects. They have basically stated this in the past.
To put it another way: if you state that we are not using the "spells section" for magic items and then how do you adjudicate the rules regarding magic items that create magical attack effects?
Breath weapons for example, clearly not spells and yet the only example of a cone is in the "Aiming a Spell" section. Do we ignore those rules because the label is incorrect despite the rule clearly applying?
Summary: the feather token is a conjuration effect. It follows the rules for conjurations which preclude what you are trying to do with it. The ship cannot be used to crush people because it must be in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it (land or water).
Claxon: Assuming it is brought into being on water, it clearly displaces the water, and thus was brought into existence in empty space.
If the boat is brought into existence on land, the same holds, but less displacement due to the ground being a solid.
Also, if I or an NPC decided to use an item unconventionally, and it was successful, I'd expect the tactic to be repeated and eventually become common practice in a game world. Successful tricks and gimmicks are successful. Just because it ruffles a few peoples' feathers in regard to their perceived Right Way of Creating Verisimilitude and Logic in a World with Dragons and Wizards, doesn't mean it isn't a valid tactic. It's innovation.
Gauss: The swan boat feather token does not create a spell effect. If it did, it would function as a spell. The swan boat feather token simply brings a giant boat into existence for 24 hours.
Again, even if the swan boat is limited by the conjuration school's limits, it can still be activated on land (arguably even precariously balanced on a ledge or steep slope, so that gravity will take effect after it is summoned onto a surface that did in fact support it for a moment). If it is activated on land with creatures present (those squishy bodies, like mud or water, are capable of supporting the created boat...), it should follow that those creatures take damage (likely Reflex for half). With an object that size, it would make sense that it be somewhere between 10d6 and 20d6. Thoughts?
Claxon: Assuming it is brought into being on water, it clearly displaces the water, and thus was brought into existence in empty space.
If the boat is brought into existence on land, the same holds, but less displacement due to the ground being a solid.
Also, if I or an NPC decided to use an item unconventionally, and it was successful, I'd expect the tactic to be repeated and eventually become common practice in a game world. Successful tricks and gimmicks are successful. Just because it ruffles a few peoples' feathers in regard to their perceived Right Way of Creating Verisimilitude and Logic in a World with Dragons and Wizards, doesn't mean it isn't a valid tactic. It's innovation.
I didn't argue with you at all about displacement or how the token functions at all. I couldn't care less about how the token functions either based or physics or the game's magical rules for the discussion at hand.
What you're suggesting is a tactic that would be super effective at killing the enemy, and if I as a GM allowed it to work once, I would kill the party using it, because for me what you are suggesting is akin to outright cheating. Gimmicks and tricks don't make the game more fun to play. What you are suggesting and insisting works is simply an attempt to get around the purpose of the game which is to have fun, for both the players and the GM. If you're idea of fun is having an "I win" button go play something else, preferably alone.
This has nothing to do with versimilitude or logic. This is about not making a whole game unfun because you found a cheaty way to "win". It's not innovation, it's being a jerk.
Innovation would be realizing you can use the token to create a boat to create a different terrain on a battlefield. Climbing inside of it to funnel enemies in a specific way. Using it as a bridge or ladder. Those are creative and innovative uses. Crushing your enemies with it is just trying to say "I win".
Claxon: My idea of fun is strategically planning and acting, and avoiding death for my character or my party. If I have an item intended for one thing, but can be used as another in a pinch (and a single-use item, too, it's not like this can be done all day long), then it's not a "win button." The game rewards system mastery and clever optimization. As does the real world. As such, if I'm playing a a character in a fantasy world with a personality inclined toward exploiting situations to his favor, I'm going to do just that. I do not at all see this as cheating. And, if you or any GM has a plausible in-game reason for NPCs to mimic the same tactic in combat, then more power to you. That's the nature of innovation. The better options and choices get repeatedly chosen and used, and the suboptimal ones eventually fall by the wayside.
EvilMinion: I agree that the aura is relevant for identifying the object. And only for that. As it is based off of the highest spell level used in the creation process. If an item were to have, say, a conjuration (creation) spell, a necromancy spell, and an evocation spell all cast as part of the creation process, and the necromancy spell were the highest level spell, the item does not somehow magically become a necromancy effect/spell. The aura is used to identify, not to govern. That is my belief based on the rules.
Other unconventional tactics could include activating an immovable rod inside a creature that swallowed you whole, then cutting your way free, running, and peppering it with ranged attacks from afar since it cannot move more than 5 feet per round now.
Taking medium-sized, 8 gp donkeys into dungeons with you to set off traps, provide cover, eat in a pinch, barter with monsters, take attacks from monsters that would otherwise attack your party, etc.
I get that dropping a boat on someone, or even just crushing them with it, seems outlandish. It is. And it's really neat. Hell, imagine a pirate-themed spellcaster (magus?). He swaggers about, casting spells and swashbuckling, then takes to the skies and plucks a fancy feather from his hat and drops a boat on an enemy vessel before they can board.
Or, using an anchor feather token on a moving ship to instantly halt it, likely causing damage to the ship from the sudden loss of momentum.
Options.
W. Canepa, you are bringing physics discussions into a game. This game has nothing to do with reality, physics, or anything else.
The rules state that you cannot conjure an object into a place that cannot support it. Water supports a boat. That is the way boats operate. Thus, you can create a boat in water.
Land can also support a boat albeit badly.
Now, if you try to create a boat on land where there are humans present you cannot do so because it is not open space. You could of course create it on a hill and then push it off the hill and squish them but that is another matter.
Remember, it must be both open and able to support it. People 'being able to support it' do not qualify as an open space.
You are going to get absolutely no rules support for this. It is clearly against the rules in the conjuration section of the rules (which you keep saying are 'spell only'). You may be able to convince some GM of it but that is not the same as it being supported by the rules.
Again, your point that it is not a spell does not matter AT ALL. It is still a form of magic and still falls under the rules for magic and thus under the rules for Conjuration magic.
And the swan boat feather token is *not* a conjuration spell. It is a magic item that uses a conjuration spell in its creation process (and thus has a conjuration aura).
By your logic, the whip feather token, which has the same spell used in its creation, cannot be activated, as the whip wields itself as a weapon with the dancing property, flitting about. (It also looks like the fan feather token floats and flaps to create wind.)
W Canepa, you are conflating things. The rules state that conjuration effects that create or transport things can only do so on a surface capable of supporting them. That does not then mean that those things cannot move or fly of their own accord after having been created or transported.
Additionally, it can be (and has been) argued that air supports flying things.
Again, you keep saying it is not a conjuration spell and you are correct, it is not. However, it is a conjuration effect and thus still falls under the rules for conjuration found in CRB chapter 9.
Is it your position that the rules in CRB Chapter 9 ONLY apply to spells?
Is it your position that the rules in CRB Chapter 9 ONLY apply to spells?
To spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities that mimic spells, correct.
Again, a magic item's magical aura is only the same as the strongest spell cast during the creation process. Therefore, and magic item producing any effect that has more than one school of magic, by your interpretation, would follow all the rules for a spell (or "effect") of that school, but not for the other schools of magic from the lower-level spells. Is that your position?
Magical items reproduce spell effects. The rules for spell effects are listed in the magic section.
A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it. Rule LinkIf you can provide an example for when this is not the case, please do so to support your assertion.
"conjuration spell"
Which would also apply to spell-like and supernatural abilities that mimic a conjuration spell.
Magic items that use a conjuration spell in its creation, in my current belief, are not conjuration spells or effects just because they have a conjuration aura.
For example, if a magic item were to summon skeletal warriors into existence just after producing a fiery burst, and an evocation, necromancy, and conjuration spell were all used in the item's creation, the item would only have an aura of the same school as the highest level spell used to create the magic item. Regardless of the effects produced, as magic items are not all based on spells and magic schools.
For example, if a magic item were to summon skeletal warriors into existence just after producing a fiery burst, and an evocation, necromancy, and conjuration spell were all used in the item's creation, the item would only have an aura of the same school as the highest level spell used to create the magic item.
Citation ? I've often encountered items with multiple school auras, often in varying strengths (such as weak illusion and strong conjuration).
W. Canepa,
Ok, then what shape and template does a Dragon's breath weapon take? Breath Weapon's do not mimic a spell. Please cite a rule that is not in the Magic chapter.
Short answer, you cannot cite one because the Magic chapter holds the only example of how Lines and Cones work.
Even though the Devs put the "Spell Areas" in the "Aiming a Spell" section it is still the only rule that covers how a Dragon's Breath weapon shape works.
The same applies for the "School (Subschool)" section.
In any case, you are not willing to listen to anyone so continued debate with you is pointless. The rules are clear here. You cannot create or transport a creature or object unless it is in an open space and on a supported surface.
For example, if a magic item were to summon skeletal warriors into existence just after producing a fiery burst, and an evocation, necromancy, and conjuration spell were all used in the item's creation, the item would only have an aura of the same school as the highest level spell used to create the magic item.Citation ? I've often encountered items with multiple school auras, often in varying strengths (such as weak illusion and strong conjuration).
Relevant text: "Magic Items and Detect Magic
When detect magic identifies a magic item's school of magic, this information refers to the school of the spell placed within the potion, scroll, or wand, or the prerequisite given for the item. The description of each item provides its aura strength and the school to which it belongs.
If more than one spell is given as a prerequisite, use the highest-level spell. If no spells are included in the prerequisites, use the following default guidelines."
Emphasis mine, in all three cases.
Ultimate Equipment page 171: Ring of Grit Mastery. Aura: "faint abjuration and evocation"
A magic item's aura can have more than one school.
W. Canepa,
Ok, then what shape and template does a Dragon's breath weapon take? Breath Weapon's do not mimic a spell. Please cite a rule that is not in the Magic chapter.
Short answer, you cannot cite one because the Magic chapter holds the only example of how Lines and Cones work.
Even though the Devs put the "Spell Areas" in the "Aiming a Spell" section it is still the only rule that covers how a Dragon's Breath weapon shape works.
The same applies for the "School (Subschool)" section.
In any case, you are not willing to listen to anyone so continued debate with you is pointless. The rules are clear here. You cannot create or transport a creature or object unless it is in an open space and on a supported surface.
A dragon's breath weapon is a SUPERNATURAL ABILITY.
Info on Dragons from the BestiaryBreath weapons are either cones or lines, and since cones and lines are detailed in the Magic chapter, this makes sense. Supernatural ability. Magic. Bam.
The rules are not, at all clear to me.
If the intent is to have the aura of a magic item dictate its function, then it needs to be clear. This also alters how magic items with multiple spells cast as part of the creation process work, as ONLY THE HIGHEST LEVEL SPELL is going to show up via detect magic and dictate the item's aura.
Ultimate Equipment page 171: Ring of Grit Mastery. Aura: "faint abjuration and evocation"
A magic item can have more than one aura.
Sure, if it's specifically spelled out. I wonder if this was intentional, or like so many other errors in various rulebooks, this was an oversight regarding an (apparently) often-overlooked few sentences at the beginning of the Magic Items section?
W. Canepa, you specifically stated that it applies only to spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities that mimic spells.
In effect, you stated that it does not apply to supernatural effects that do not mimic spells. Breath Weapons are one such effect.
The section on Cones and Lines are specifically in the "Spell Areas" section. Breath Weapons are not spells and do not mimic spells.
You are being inconsistent. You are applying a rule that, according to your own statement, does not apply to non-spells and effects that do not replicate spells to a non-spell effect.
But, you refuse to apply a similar rule to magic items.
Do you see the inconsistency?
Actually, I am quite certain that the Ring of Grit Mastery is written incorrectly, as the spells used are a 2nd level abjuration spell (bullet shield) and a 1st level divination spell (anticipate peril).
Creative Director
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Swan boats are not intended to be things you drop on folks or expand inside of things or otherwise use to do damage. That is reflected in their pricing. Note that an item that specifically DOES allow you to damage folks with its sudden creation, an instant fortress, costs 54,650 or so gp more than the swan boat does.
Of course, feel free to let PCs use swan boats to do damage to targets... but if you don't increase the cost from 450 gp to something a lot more... they suddenly become the most cost-efficent damage-dealing magic item in the game. Which is not what they are supposed to be.
W. Canepa, you specifically stated that it applies only to spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities that mimic spells.
In effect, you stated that it does not apply to supernatural effects that do not mimic spells. Breath Weapons are one such effect.
The section on Cones and Lines are specifically in the "Spell Areas" section. Breath Weapons are not spells and do not mimic spells.
You are being inconsistent. You are applying a rule that, according to your own statement, does not apply to non-spells and effects that do not replicate spells to a non-spell effect.
But, you refuse to apply a similar rule to magic items.
Do you see the inconsistency?
Under the Universal Monster Rules section, under Breath Weapon, it says:
"Breath Weapon (Su) Some creatures can exhale a cone, line, or cloud of energy or other magical effects. A breath weapon attack usually deals damage and is often based on some type of energy. Breath weapons allow a Reflex save for half damage (DC 10 + 1/2 breathing creature's racial HD + breathing creature's Con modifier; the exact DC is given in the creature's descriptive text). A creature is immune to its own breath weapon unless otherwise noted. Some breath weapons allow a Fortitude save or a Will save instead of a Reflex save. Each breath weapon also includes notes on how often it can be used, even if this number is limited in times per day.
Format: breath weapon (60-ft. cone, 8d6 fire damage, Reflex DC 20 for half, usable every 1d4 rounds); Location: Special Attacks; if the breath is more complicated than damage, it also appears under Special Abilities with its own entry."
So... while you can use the visual templates for lines and cones in the Magic section so you don't have to do the work yourself, it is not necessary. I am not being inconsistent. Anyone can count squares and derive a cone or line based on the breath weapon description. But, making them more uniform would be easier to just look at the Magic section's templates.
Further, MAGIC ITEMS ARE NOT SUPERNATURAL ABILITIES. Look, if we're arguing semantics (which in some cases I am) we need to be on the same page. Your last post in no way dismisses what I'm saying because you thought (but didn't) find some sort of internal inconsistency in my interpretation of the rules.
Swan boats are not intended to be things you drop on folks or expand inside of things or otherwise use to do damage. That is reflected in their pricing. Note that an item that specifically DOES allow you to damage folks with its sudden creation, an instant fortress, costs 54,650 or so gp more than the swan boat does.
Of course, feel free to let PCs use swan boats to do damage to targets... but if you don't increase the cost from 450 gp to something a lot more... they suddenly become the most cost-efficent damage-dealing magic item in the game. Which is not what they are supposed to be.
Thank you. Developer feedback on intent will be taken any day of the week.
I still wish that the rules were spelled out more clearly, as intent or not, without you telling me that, there is no formula or mechanic detailing that.
Can the swan boat be activated on land or in air? If so, what happens in either case? Do creatures occupying the spaces the boat would form into prevent the boat from coming into being, or do they get shunted to the side harmlessly, since they cannot be damaged?
W. Canepa,
The auras do not always match the spells in the magic item.
Take the Scholar's Ring. The spells used are Comprehend Languages and Legend Lore. Both are divination spells and yet the ring has a Conjuration aura.
This is not necessarily indicative of mistakes on the part of the creators.
W. Canepa,
The auras do not always match the spells in the magic item.
Take the Scholar's Ring. The spells used are Comprehend Languages and Legend Lore. Both are divination spells and yet the ring has a Conjuration aura.
This is not necessarily indicative of mistakes on the part of the creators.
Then the very first part of the Magic Items section needs to be errata'd to reflect this. That section says that this cannot be so; it should have a divination aura, as designed.
Again, as written: "When detect magic identifies a magic item's school of magic, this information refers to the school of the spell ... prerequisite given for the item. The description of each item provides its aura strength and the school to which it belongs.
If more than one spell is given as a prerequisite, use the highest-level spell. "
W. Canepa, the rules for lines and cones are only present in Chapter 9 "Aiming a Spell" section.
Is it your position that the rules in CRB Chapter 9 ONLY apply to spells?
To spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities that mimic spells, correct.
Again, a magic item's magical aura is only the same as the strongest spell cast during the creation process. Therefore, and magic item producing any effect that has more than one school of magic, by your interpretation, would follow all the rules for a spell (or "effect") of that school, but not for the other schools of magic from the lower-level spells. Is that your position?
I specifically asked if it was your position that the rules for Chapter 9 only apply to spells to which you responded that it only applies to spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities that mimic spells.
Breath Weapons are not supernatural abilities that mimic spells.
Thus, you are being inconsistent.
Either,
A) Chapter 9 only applies to things that are "spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities that mimic spells".
or
B) Chapter 9 applies to many more things than just "spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities that mimic spells" are stated and you have to use some logic to determine if this is the case.
You stated A.
A. means you have no rules for targeting a cone or line if that cone or line is not a spell, spell-like ability, or supernatural ability that mimics a spell.
So, which is it, A or B? If it is B then it also applies to magic items since magic items have a school.
Gauss, I've been skimming through the Core Rulebook's Magic Item section, and am not finding any instances of multiple auras, or an aura not matching the highest level prerequisite spell. Are you aware of any in the Core Rulebook? If not, do you think it's possible that in future products this was simply overlooked or ignored?
Holy ignoring what I said, Batman!
You do not need the cone or line templates from the Magic section to create a cone or line. They're just a handy reference to more quickly do what you otherwise would have been able to do by reading the Breath Weapon description in the Bestiary's Universal Monster Rules section.
No inconsistency.
Further, IF a breath weapon must draw from chapter 9 to create a line or cone, it's still mimicking a spell effect (in this case a spell area effect), but not a spell outright. So, if that's what you're hung up on, feel free to expand my previous statement to include that.
Rod of Lordly Might has 4 auras.
That's weird then. For example, the Rod of Splendor makes sense having an aura with 2 schools, since the 2 highest spells are tied for level. The Rod of Lordly Might shouldn't have that many auras.
I did not mention the templates in my last post. You may not need the templates but you DO need the rules for area effects. Otherwise you do not know a number of things.
Example, where does it start? Does it start at the center of your square? Does it start at the center of the edge of your square? Does it start at a corner?
The only place to get such an answer is....Chapter 9.
Regardless of the shape of the area, you select the point where the spell originates, but otherwise you don’t control which creatures or objects the spell affects. The point of origin of a spell is always a grid intersection. When determining whether a given creature is within the area of a spell, count out the distance from the point of origin in squares just as you do when moving a character or when determining the range for a ranged attack. The only difference is that instead of counting from the center of one square to the center of the next, you count from intersection to intersection.
As you can see, that quote is not about templates, it is about the basic definition of an area effect's starting point.
So tell me how you define non-spell area effects WITHOUT using the rules (not templates) in chapter 9?
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Creative Director
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Swan boats are not intended to be things you drop on folks or expand inside of things or otherwise use to do damage. That is reflected in their pricing. Note that an item that specifically DOES allow you to damage folks with its sudden creation, an instant fortress, costs 54,650 or so gp more than the swan boat does.
Of course, feel free to let PCs use swan boats to do damage to targets... but if you don't increase the cost from 450 gp to something a lot more... they suddenly become the most cost-efficent damage-dealing magic item in the game. Which is not what they are supposed to be.
Thank you. Developer feedback on intent will be taken any day of the week.
I still wish that the rules were spelled out more clearly, as intent or not, without you telling me that, there is no formula or mechanic detailing that.
Can the swan boat be activated on land or in air? If so, what happens in either case? Do creatures occupying the spaces the boat would form into prevent the boat from coming into being, or do they get shunted to the side harmlessly, since they cannot be damaged?
It's a boat. It should only be something you can activate on water. It's too inexpensive to be that versatile, in other words. If there's not enough room for it to form (as might be the case if creatures are in the way) it won't activate.
Gauss- Again, it's mimicking the function of spells, so it doesn't matter. Magic items that create unique effects that are not spells, spell-like, or supernatural abilities and do not have any rules drawing from a spell's parameter (target, range, effect, whatever), merely have effects that happen based on their descriptions. They don't somehow miraculously become pseudo-spell effects.
It's a boat. It should only be something you can activate on water. It's too inexpensive to be that versatile, in other words. If there's not enough room for it to form (as might be the case if creatures are in the way) it won't activate.
James Jacobs, thank you. I will play all my games in the future with that intent in mind.
I should probably start a new thread about magic items, their auras (and how they are determined), and whether an aura of a magic item somehow makes all of its functions an effect of that school of magic. Especially since that is where the discussion and contention has gone.
W Canepa, I specifically stated "non-spell" area effects. They do exist you know.
Not all area effects are spell, spell-like, or supernatural that mimics a spell.
Please answer this simple question:
What is the originating point for an area effect that does NOT mimic a spell and where is that rule found?
I'd like to know examples of such effects that are not spells, spell-likes, or supernaturals.
For instance, the troglodyte's stench aura (Ex) does not use these rules at all, instead using the rules for measuring distance in the stench description, under Universal Monster Rules.
Are there any (Ex) breath weapons?
A Dragon's Breath Weapon does not mimic any spell because there is no listed spell in a breath weapon's description.
An SU ability that mimics a spell is one with a spell name in the description. Example: the SU ability Change Shape mimics Beast Shape II.
Alternately, the SU ability Gestalt does not mimic a spell because it does not have a spell listed.
As for entirely non-magical area effects, Poisoned Sand Tube (Ultimate Equipment p34) has a 15 foot cone. Some firearms can also shoot a non-magical cone.
So to restate the question:
What is the originating point for an area effect that does NOT mimic a spell and where is that rule found?
I'm not repeating myself a 3rd or 4th time. You're intentionally ignoring what I'm saying, apparently.
The archon's gestalt ability is governed by bing a supernatural ability.
Furthermore, it appears we have both overlooked the very last section of the Magic section on Special Abilities:
A number of classes and creatures gain the use of special abilities, many of which function like spells.
Spell-Like Abilities: Usually, a spell-like ability works just like the spell of that name. A spell-like ability has no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus. The user activates it mentally. Armor never affects a spell-like ability's use, even if the ability resembles an arcane spell with a somatic component.
A spell-like ability has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability or spell description. In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell.
Spell-like abilities are subject to spell resistance and dispel magic. They do not function in areas where magic is suppressed or negated. Spell-like abilities cannot be used to counterspell, nor can they be counterspelled.
If a character class grants a spell-like ability that is not based on an actual spell, the ability's effective spell level is equal to the highest-level class spell the character can cast, and is cast at the class level the ability is granted.
Supernatural Abilities: These can't be disrupted in combat and generally don't provoke attacks of opportunity. They aren't subject to spell resistance, counterspells, or dispel magic, and don't function in antimagic areas.
Extraordinary Abilities: These abilities cannot be disrupted in combat, as spells can, and they generally do not provoke attacks of opportunity. Effects or areas that negate or disrupt magic have no effect on extraordinary abilities. They are not subject to dispelling, and they function normally in an antimagic field. Indeed, extraordinary abilities do not qualify as magical, though they may break the laws of physics.
Natural Abilities: This category includes abilities a creature has because of its physical nature. Natural abilities are those not otherwise designated as extraordinary, supernatural, or spell-like.
Specifically the Extraordinary and Natural Abilities section. that acts as a catch-all for creature abilities that need to reference this chapter. So you can drop your breath weapon hissy fit.
Had I remembered that, I'd have included it early on to nip this nonsense in the bud. d20 is an exception based rules system. There's the exception, spelled out.