Monk using Seven-branched sword with flurry

[McDeadeye Jones]

So yesterday i started a low level campaign with my friends. Our party consisted of:

1.)Dwarven Barbarian- 2-handed long hammer.

2.)Aasimar Oracle (cure spells, mystery:Heavens, Revelation:Awesome display + color spray, +the +1/2 for the Aasimar oracle revelations)

3.)Vanaras Monk (nunchucks)

So yesterday we were playing, and of COURSE the barbarian was doing the most damage, killing mobs with 1 hit. (to be expected at low levels), and our monk gets extremely upset that he's not doing as much damage. After a few hours of playing, the pc's had made enough gold to hit up the trading post, and the monk wants to buy a "Seven-Branched Sword"

so then the arguments started (oh god, what a whiny baby)
anyway the monk then says he is automatically proficient with the seven-branched sword simply because it says its a monk weapon, and that he can flurry with it as well.

I've done some research on forums and such, and im finding that he can indeed use the sword with flurry, but since it is 2-handed, he has to use kicks for his other attacks.

Does the monk automatically gain profiency with this weapon ?
Can the Monk Flurry with JUST the sword ?
and finally, would it be fair to assume that this far eastern weapon would be near impossible to find ?
(im guessing that would just piss him off more if i made it unavailable to purchase or hard to find.

Please help. Yes, hes a whiny monk, but he's my friend also, and i dont want to piss him off TOO much.

[Xethik]

Monks do not gain proficiency with it automatically. That can be fixed with a 1-dip into Unarmed Fighter or a trait (forget the name) that gives proficiency in 1 Monk weapon.

I'm not sure why you wouldn't be able to flurry with just the sword. Someone can correct me, however. It won't be long before his unarmed attack would be the same damage die, too. It's much better earlier but later on will just be a way to save on money.

I say let him buy the sword. I mean, it sounds like he won't even be using the trip-flat-footed part (the interesting part), so the sword doesn't need to be any different from a regular one. Perhaps he custom orders additional weird spokes on it or one from scratch.

Just see if he doesn't mind swapping a trait out for proficiency.

[Dread Knight]

No he is not automatically gain proficiency with weapons with Monk special qualities but Monk's weapon proficiency doesn't really make sense I would say it wouldn't be a bad houserule to say he can use it.

Yes a Monk can just flurry with the sword.

I would say that it isn't fair especially if it is a trading post it most likely has a large variety of things to sale from all over.

[Kazaan]

1) Monks are not automatically proficient with all weapons with the Monk special quality. Some weapons added after Core include a statement that Monks are automatically proficient with them; the Temple Sword is a prime example. It was introduced in Advanced Player's Guide and specifies that Monks are automatically proficient with it so it is, effectively, retroactively added to the Monk's list of proficient weapons. However, the 7-Branch Sword is not such a weapon so he still needs to take EWP to be proficient. He can use it without proficiency, mind you, but takes -4 on attack rolls until he gains proficiency.

2) Yes, Flurry is special in that you can use the same weapon for both main-hand and off-hand attacks so he can make all his attacks with the sword. He only gets 1x Str to damage (not 1.5x) despite it being a 2-h weapon, but he does get 1.5x Power Attack.

3) No more impossible to find than any other far-eastern weapon. If you can find a Monk, a Samurai, or a Ninja, you can probably find their weapons. That's a fabricated issue the should never be brought up mid-game (if you're going to make foreign weapons hard to find, you apply it across the board and declare it before the game starts).

You might want to mention to him that Monks are not an offensive powerhouse class; that's not really their job. In a well balanced party, you have one character threatening the enemy and hampering their movement, one character dealing the major damage, and one character buffing and debuffing. These are the Anvil, the Hammer, and the Arm, respectively. If the Barbarian is already doing the bulk of the damage, and you have an Oracle who is obviously the buffer/debuffer, the Monk should do his job and be the Anvil. He should wield some kind of reach weapon with which to threaten and focus on disabling enemies and locking their movement. He doesn't even need a Monk weapon with reach; he could use a Glaive just to threaten and make his Flurry attacks with Unarmed Strikes and use Maneuvers to disable enemies. Dirty Trick is best for this while Trip is probably second; Dirty Trick requires a standard action while Trip can be used in place of any melee attack (standard, AoO, attack during Flurry, etc).

[graystone]

Does the monk automatically gain profiency with this weapon ?:No

Can the Monk Flurry with JUST the sword ?:Yes, all attacks. It's in the FAQ's

Would it be fair to assume that this far eastern weapon would be near impossible to find ?:No. It's just as hard to find as any other exotic weapon. Would you balk at a bastard sword, a whip or a khopesh?

[McDeadeye Jones]

Ok, thanks guys. appreciate the help

[Krodjin]

Tell the Monk to abort the arms race against the Barbarian.

[Arachnofiend]

Krodjin wrote:

Tell the Monk to abort the arms race against the Barbarian.

Agreed. The Monk is never going to do comparable damage to the Barbarian... He can do more damage than he is now, sure, but the Barbarian will always make him look weak. If he doesn't want to feel like a dud he should try respeccing into something that contributes through means other than damage; I'd personally recommend using the Sensei archetype, Inspire Courage is always a nice thing to have. He could spec for Stunning Fist with Mantis Style and contribute that way, or be an Underfoot Adept and trip things (he'd have to be a Human or a Halfling for that though).

[Mojorat]

He could ki throw the enemy and just feed prone enemies to tbe barbarian for synergy.

[Humphry B ManWitch]

improved trip, greater trip = Awesome Monk

monks are about many attacks. show him the various styles

also if you want to make Oriental weapons rare encourage him to craft his own. Craft weapons is viable. then get someone to cast masterwork transformation on the weapon to make it masterwork..

[lemeres]

Kazaan wrote:

You might want to mention to him that Monks are not an offensive powerhouse class; that's not really their job. In a well balanced party, you have one character threatening the enemy and hampering their movement, one character dealing the major damage, and one character buffing and debuffing. These are the Anvil, the Hammer, and the Arm, respectively. If the Barbarian is already doing the bulk of the damage, and you have an Oracle who is obviously the buffer/debuffer, the Monk should do his job and be the Anvil. He should wield some kind of reach weapon with which to threaten and focus on disabling enemies and locking their movement. He doesn't even need a Monk weapon with reach; he could use a Glaive just to threaten and make his Flurry attacks with...

Well, most monks aren't offensive powerhouses. It depends on what you are building.

Specifically, I find that sohei are pretty good since they get the fighter's weapon training and they can flurry with a rather wide variety of weapons once they do. And the exact name of the ability lets them grab the dueling gloves, which can give an instant +2 to that weapon training. Plus, they can wear light armor and flurry in it, which means they can focus more of their stats on strength and still survive as well as anyone else. Overall, they are fairly easy to use compared to normal monks, requiring a lot less system mastery.

Of course, I do kind of agree that it is hard to compete with barbarians in terms of raw damage. Early on, their bonuses to attack and damage are front loaded (they get half of everything from level 1, unlike pretty much everyone else), and later they have to compete with pounce.

Not to say that a monk couldn't get more damage. TWF with the added benefits of full strength (free double slice?), up to 1.5x power attack, and weapon training+dueling gloves (I really like sohei, I will not lie), with an occasional extra hit from using ki (all while using only a single weapon, which is much cheaper than normal TWF) can get some rather good numbers... when they full attack; getting those in consistently is a whole party issue...that the barbarian could skip out on with pounce.

[Experiment 626]

Another vote for a maneuvering guy. With no armor and a lack of hit points I'd think he'd want reach weapons like the kusari gama, too. I like the Maneuver Master for the freebie maneuver and access to improved and greater maneuvers without needing combat expertise.

Kazaan's advice is pretty sound in that he's not getting teamwork and party roles. He needs to have a sit down with you while you explain the system a little bit. I'm not sure how well that will go, given what you've described thus far.

If he still wants a melee damage monkey, the Hungry Ghost archetype isn't a bad way to go. Combine with a temple sword (eventually make it keen) and the pre-nerfed Crane Wing feat for more fun. He'll want the qinggong archetype for the barkskin goodness, too, and some way to keep himself mage armored.

Since you don't have an arcane caster in that party, his AC will be probably be lacking without a Mage Armor item of some kind.