As the title says. It says in their description that diminutive or fine swarms do not take weapon damage. Does that include natural attacks? What about weapons with elemental effects on them? What about spells that emulate weapons, like Flame Blade?
On a related topic, it seems that swarms can occupy space with another creature. This looks like it means that you could stack multiple swarms into on square and increase the damage they do in that way. Stack enough swarms and damage can get deadly quick. What say you all on this stacking? Legal? Limitations?
Natural attacks are done with natural weapons. Natural weapons deal weapon damage.
Elemental effects and spells like 'Flame Blade' are often discussed on the boards. Most groups allow it.
You are 100% covered by bugs. Can you be more than 100% covered with bugs? No ? So no swarm stacking.
btw all your questions were discussed and answered on the boards. Use the search function and use common sense.
As the title says. It says in their description that diminutive or fine swarms do not take weapon damage. Does that include natural attacks? What about weapons with elemental effects on them?
I can't fathom why most natural weapons would not be handled the same way that weapons are. If you can't hit something with a club, you can't hit it with a tail.
I might make an exception though for something that would work particularly well on a swarm, say a chameleon or giant frogs giant sticky tongue.
What about spells that emulate weapons, like Flame Blade?
Elemental damage. should work.
On a related topic, it seems that swarms can occupy space with another creature. This looks like it means that you could stack multiple swarms into on square and increase the damage they do in that way. Stack enough swarms and damage can get deadly quick. What say you all on this stacking? Legal? Limitations?
I haven't seen a rule against it, and i don't know what % of your body a swarm covers. I might allow it, but i would probably also have the swarms damaging each other as well unless they were the same type.
flaming swords do fire damage on top of weapon damage, the damage that isn't slashing, piercing, or bludgeoning will work.
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Swarm of the same type don't overlap, they join covering a larger area.
It is in the swarm subtype:
A swarm of Tiny creatures consists of 300 nonflying creatures or 1,000 flying creatures. A swarm of Diminutive creatures consists of 1,500 nonflying creatures or 5,000 flying creatures. A swarm of Fine creatures consists of 10,000 creatures, whether they are flying or not. Swarms of nonflying creatures include many more creatures than could normally fit in a 10-foot square based on their normal space, because creatures in a swarm are packed tightly together and generally crawl over each other and their prey when moving or attacking. Larger swarms are represented by multiples of single swarms. The area occupied by a large swarm is completely shapeable, though the swarm usually remains in contiguous squares.
The bolded text can be read (and I think it should be read) as "multiples of a single swarm are treated as a larger swarm", not as several swarms in the same location.
I think that making that clearer would be a good idea. I was capable to sold that to our GM when we were attacked by two leech swarms while hip deep in water and it still ended with 2 character deaths (partially due to misfortune). If the swarm were capable to stack one over the other I think it would have ended in a TPK. Two CR 4 creatures were capable to kill 2 level 7 characters.
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On a related topic, it seems that swarms can occupy space with another creature. This looks like it means that you could stack multiple swarms into on square and increase the damage they do in that way. Stack enough swarms and damage can get deadly quick. What say you all on this stacking? Legal? Limitations?
I dont think Swarms can stack but if they could wouldent they attack each other?
Yes, I did search the forums and found a couple of threads that gave contradictory advice and were 2-3 years old. I found nothing dealing with natural attacks and I am not familiar with them from a PC perspective. So, I decided to post a fresh question, since there might have been rules changes/clarifications (SLA early entry, anyone?) that could have changed the advice given earlier.
Ok, so consensus is natural attacks = weapon damage. (I was leaning that way myself, good to know I was right.) Energy attacks on weapons do energy damage but not weapon damage, correct? Swarms can stack to interact with targets, but not stack with each other to combine damage.
I was on target with all but the last point. Good thing I didn't kill anyone with that boo-boo, or my players wouldn't be happy with me.
I have to agree with Artoo. The point isn't that Weapons and natural attacks can't hurt the creatures. Obviously, you could smash a bug with a hammer. The point is that it's moot with a swarm.
Ok, good for you, you smash 5 bugs (out of 1,500) with your hammer. That did just about nothing to the overall integrity of the swarm. Same with waving your torch (flame blade) at it. You burn a few, but thousands take the place of those you singed.
You need blast effects (and they are more effective) because you are burning hundreds of them at a time, which IS effective and thins down the number of critters left alive. This is why the swarm disperses at 0 HP. There are still critters left alive, but they are no longer a danger.
Also, unless a swarm had a hive mind, they would ABSOLUTELY eat each other (if they are both omnivorous or carnivores). A swarm of bats (birds, snakes, etc) will DEFINITELY eat a swarm of insects and would probably prefer them over a group of people. :-)