I know the myhic archmage can cast spells and force non-mythic targets to save twice and take the worse result, but are there any feats that do the same thing?
I was pretty authorative when it came up this weekend, but now I am thinking about maybe domain powers, feats, magic items, etc.
Actually since it was a wizard trying to pull the wool over the DM's eyes, maybe an arcane discovery I am not familiar with?
Metamagic feat: Persistent Spell
Only works for instantaneous spells, but that is most of the blaster spells.
There is also the Witch hex Misfortune...
And, the monster aura Unluck (Pugwampis, for one, have it, probably common to many of the gremlins).
Some classes get ways to do it for some spells, if it's just a vanilla wizard odds are he's just using the persistent spell metamagic.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/metamagic-feats/persistent-spell-metamagic
If the odd thing was that he was doing so without seeming to adjust the spell level (like using his highest tier spell)he may have been reducing the level penalty in some way or simply using a metamagic rod.
There are also spells like pugwampi's grace and accursed glare. Nota Bene: "Reroll after you've already seen the results of one roll" and "roll twice and take a certain result" are not necessarily the same thing.
The guy hiding In my closet is correct. It is possible he wanted to use persisent spell, but because "piercing" starts with P he thought it was the same thing.
The DM should have caught this since "roll twice and take the worse result" was what caused him to stop giving out mythic tiers.
There is the wizard spell 'phantasmal killer' that requires 2 saves. A will save and then a fort save if you failed the will save.
There's also the Chaos cleric domain's 1st level power, which forces the target to roll twice and use the worst result for one round whenever they roll a d20.
Other than that, most of the stuff I know about has already been mentioned. For a wizard trying to do this consistently, Persistent Spell metamagic feat or rod would be the way to go. I think the rod lets you do it without increasing the spell level slot.
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Ill Omen spell
Touch of Chaos domain power
Misfortune Revelation from the Dual-Cursed Oracle (close, but not exactly)
EDIT: Ninja'd
Wycen wrote: The guy hiding In my closet is correct. It is possible he wanted to use persisent spell, but because "piercing" starts with P he thought it was the same thing.
The DM should have caught this since "roll twice and take the worse result" was what caused him to stop giving out mythic tiers.
...That's where the GM decided mythic was too much?
: I
blahpers wrote: Wycen wrote: The guy hiding In my closet is correct. It is possible he wanted to use persisent spell, but because "piercing" starts with P he thought it was the same thing.
The DM should have caught this since "roll twice and take the worse result" was what caused him to stop giving out mythic tiers.
...That's where the GM decided mythic was too much?
: I Some people in this group have a history of playing fast and loose with the rules. I enjoy rules mastery, so I attempt to act as rules lawyer, including when, ESPECIALLY when it favors the DM. Personally I think he's a bit too laissez-faire with assuming the players actually know the rules, but I can't do anything about that. And even I get things wrong.
The scenario was after we got our first mythic tier and were battling an agile mythic dragon for our second. The wizard PC chose the mythic ability that forced 2 saves vs. spells. But he forgot that little caveat that only non-mythic creatures had to make 2 saves. The DM's dice luck was not with him. Then there's the other PC casting mythic spells ignoring the required mythic spell feat/ability.
Plus now we are at 13th level with 6 players so it requires too much time to make sure everything is challenging or balanced.
If you use a persistent glitterdust, do all targets have to make 2 saves every round until they save?
Combining Pugwampi's Grace and Persistent Spell actually requires them to roll 4 times and take the lowest... Well, more like roll twice, if they succeed both, roll twice again.
Persistent Spell wrote: Benefit: Whenever a creature targeted by a persistent spell or within its area succeeds on its saving throw against the spell, it must make another saving throw against the effect.
If a creature fails this second saving throw, it suffers the full effects of the spell, as if it had failed its first saving throw
The Human Diversion wrote: If you use a persistent glitterdust, do all targets have to make 2 saves every round until they save? +1. Been looking to an answer to this one for some time.
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