So, my friend is playing an evil aasimar magus. At 7th lvl, he took improved familiar to gain a Cacodaemon. He brought up the arguement to the GM that he is ofan evil alignment and an outsider, so he should be able to gain the benefits from the soul lock ability that the Cacodaemon has. I said no because he has to be an outsider with the evil subtype, but wants me to be sure.
"Soul Lock(Su) Once per day as a full-round action, a cacodaemon can ingest the spirit of any sentient creature that has died in the past minute. This causes a soul gem to grow inside the cacodaemon's gut, which it can regurgitate as a standard action. A soul gem is a fine-sized object with 1 hit point and 2 hardness. Destroying ansoul gem frees the soul within, though it does not return the deceased creature to life. This is a death effect. Any attempt to resurrect a body whose soul is trapped in a soul gem requires a DC 12 caster level check. Failure results in the spell having no effect, while success shatters the soul gem and returns the creature to life as normal. If the soul gem rests in an unholy location, such as that created by the unhallow spell, the DC of this caster level check increases by +2. The caster level check is charisma-based.
Any evil outsider can, as a standard action, ingest a soul gem. Doing so frees the soul within, but condemns it to one of the we're planes(though the soul can be returned to life as normal). The outsider gains fast healing 2 for a number of rounds equal to its Hit Dice."
Sorry to post the whole thing. Didn't know how to make things links, and I wanted people to know what I was talking about.
Pretty sure in context it is evil subtype.
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So, my friend is playing an evil aasimar magus. At 7th lvl, he took improved familiar to gain a Cacodaemon. He brought up the arguement to the GM that he is ofan evil alignment and an outsider, so he should be able to gain the benefits from the soul lock ability that the Cacodaemon has. I said no because he has to be an outsider with the evil subtype, but wants me to be sure.
"Soul Lock(Su) Once per day as a full-round action, a cacodaemon can ingest the spirit of any sentient creature that has died in the past minute. This causes a soul gem to grow inside the cacodaemon's gut, which it can regurgitate as a standard action. A soul gem is a fine-sized object with 1 hit point and 2 hardness. Destroying ansoul gem frees the soul within, though it does not return the deceased creature to life. This is a death effect. Any attempt to resurrect a body whose soul is trapped in a soul gem requires a DC 12 caster level check. Failure results in the spell having no effect, while success shatters the soul gem and returns the creature to life as normal. If the soul gem rests in an unholy location, such as that created by the unhallow spell, the DC of this caster level check increases by +2. The caster level check is charisma-based.
Any evil outsider can, as a standard action, ingest a soul gem. Doing so frees the soul within, but condemns it to one of the we're planes(though the soul can be returned to life as normal). The outsider gains fast healing 2 for a number of rounds equal to its Hit Dice."Sorry to post the whole thing. Didn't know how to make things links, and I wanted people to know what I was talking about.
I think you could really play it either way. On the one hand if you go only evil outsiders you have to ask what does that mean for races like the rakshasa who are also native outsiders. On the other hand you do have to think about what this means for outsiders if one just has to be evil which creates some interesting narrative when you think of the idea of angels falling and eating soul gems or things like tieflings making narcotics out of soul gems that empower them but rots their soul.
My suggestion as a gm really is to go with an option of what makes you most comfortable and gives your player the most enjoyment.
Also as an aside you could do something like allow him but have him be haunted by the souls of those he's eaten since he is not a full daemon. He can hear them suffering and experiences fragments of their lives and memories and must suffer the guilt of their demise.
I would say that RAW, he has a valid window, since the ability does not state; an outsider with the Evil keyword.
From a balance perspective; at lvl 20, the ability is:
with a dependency on killing an enemy, the character can gain 40 Hp back, 1/day.
Overall, I would say since it costed him a feat to accquire the Cacodaemon, it's not that bad. The point in question though is; what happens when he starts to stockpile, as he inevitably will try to.
In response; that's when you need to address it straightforward; lay down the law and say that he can only maintain 1 soul gem at a time (for whatever non-jarring reason), or the ability cannot work for him at all.
Your GM, and it's always your call at the end, but if you view the combination as salvagable, it's worth giving the player a choice.
Ok, this is strictly better than the infernal healing spell... just. It's going to be a factor outside of combat, but considering that most fights don't last long enough for fast healing 2 to have a major effect on a 7th level character.
I'd suggest letting it fly as really, it's a minor bonus that can be matched by some 50 gp potions. Even if he stockpiles them, he's really not getting that much of a benefit beyond easing up the cleric's burden.
Of course, getting a reputation for eating your enemies souls is a whole other kettle of fish...
RAW no, he can't. It wouldn't break things to allow it, though.
Mmk. Always glad to hear from the community. I have to say, after reading your reasonings, it's not as bad as I originally thought. I'll let everyone know that it's definetly a fine thing, considering how 'little' it does. If he stockpiles, he's ok, but since he can only have one made a day and he has to kill someone, it's a liitle harder to do if we're in a town or city for an extensive amount of time.
Before I forget, I remember some rules on soul values. Humanoid souls are worth something like 100 gold per HD, and even animals are 10 per HD. The potions are 50 gp in comparison, so when you factor in the opportunity cost he's almost certainly not saving much money. It could be hard hard to find a market for souls, but I think you can craft items with them.
Well, his character is also an assassin(fun story, no time to tell it) and part of his character's offer is to sell the soul gem to the contractor, so they can watch their enemy's torment.
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Before I forget, I remember some rules on soul values. Humanoid souls are worth something like 100 gold per HD, and even animals are 10 per HD. The potions are 50 gp in comparison, so when you factor in the opportunity cost he's almost certainly not saving much money. It could be hard hard to find a market for souls, but I think you can craft items with them.
Ehh you can craft some stuff with them but it usually requires you to interact with the aforementioned soul market which is usually not that active on the material plane and more so on Abbadon. Also if you aren't running an evil campaign whole heartedly you have that whole "people don't like people who murder their neighbors/friends/etc., capture their souls, and then either eat or consume them which damns them to your chosen evil plane" thing which most societies don't like, probably have laws against, and probably will incarcerate and execute if they found him out.
Now if that sounds discouraging I wouldn't let it, you have a soul stealing assassin and part of the fun should be finding ways to do what he does without getting caught and hung by the cops. Let him enjoy hiding evidence and eluding the law while trying to find buyers for his ill gotten gains.
Hell you could totally do a subplot of him taking a soul he shouldn't have like a high priest of Asmodeus, and having his clerics hunting him down to get revenge and retrieve the soul. Hell he might not even know what he has until much later.
Lol you could have him actually save mankind by capturing the soul of a powerful evil in disguise. God that would be hysterical, soul eater saves day by randomly consuming the soul of the demon leading the king astray after catching him in a dark alley one night.
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Before I forget, I remember some rules on soul values. Humanoid souls are worth something like 100 gold per HD, and even animals are 10 per HD. The potions are 50 gp in comparison, so when you factor in the opportunity cost he's almost certainly not saving much money. It could be hard hard to find a market for souls, but I think you can craft items with them.Ehh you can craft some stuff with them but it usually requires you to interact with the aforementioned soul market which is usually not that active on the material plane and more so on Abbadon. Also if you aren't running an evil campaign whole heartedly you have that whole "people don't like people who murder their neighbors/friends/etc., capture their souls, and then either eat or consume them which damns them to your chosen evil plane" thing which most societies don't like, probably have laws against, and probably will incarcerate and execute if they found him out.
Now if that sounds discouraging I wouldn't let it, you have a soul stealing assassin and part of the fun should be finding ways to do what he does without getting caught and hung by the cops. Let him enjoy hiding evidence and eluding the law while trying to find buyers for his ill gotten gains.
Hell you could totally do a subplot of him taking a soul he shouldn't have like a high priest of Asmodeus, and having his clerics hunting him down to get revenge and retrieve the soul. Hell he might not even know what he has until much later.
Lol you could have him actually save mankind by capturing the soul of a powerful evil in disguise. God that would be hysterical, soul eater saves day by randomly consuming the soul of the demon leading the king astray after catching him in a dark alley one night.
Yes. These are great ideas.
I think that getting into the Evil Outsider vs. Outsider that happens to be evil debate is pointless and only takes away from the fun of the game.
I think that disallowing your player to do this (in general) would hurt the campaign because you would lose all of the juicy opportunities to use it as a story hook.
Even though your player could probably conceal the nature of his familiar from the party by having it carry on looking like a lizard or something (they have a shapechange ability), it could eventually be discovered. What happens then? Do the rest of the PCs just <shrug> and carry on? Doubtful. Cacodaemons are supposed to be kind of crazy and mean.
I imagine that a variety of faiths would become interested in the 'missing souls' mystery and would eventually send an Inquisitor (with henchmen!) to figure out what is going on... Pharasma's church would be an obvious choice.
In any civilized area this behavior is bound to be considered massively illegal. Getting caught in possession of a soul gem is always a possibility.
Just imagine the chaos and risk involved if the PC decides to take his bag of soul gems to the interplanar black market and sell them to Demons...
What if the PC used them for bribes with the various summoning/calling spells?
Risks/Rewards/Consequences
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Well, his character is also an assassin(fun story, no time to tell it) and part of his character's offer is to sell the soul gem to the contractor, so they can watch their enemy's torment.
Considering this, the player is probably Chaotic Neutral, flirting with Chaotic Evil then? How does the rest of the party feel about this?
I say, let the story take its course; if it stays fun, great. If it gets too disruptive or starts frustrating the other players, just have the PC get discovered, arrested by the authorities, and let the rest of the party decide if they want to pay for his legal defense, mount a rescue mission, or let him hang for his crimes.
It's bound to happen eventually, especially in or near a big city.
Well, his character is also an assassin(fun story, no time to tell it) and part of his character's offer is to sell the soul gem to the contractor, so they can watch their enemy's torment.Considering this, the player is probably Chaotic Neutral, flirting with Chaotic Evil then? How does the rest of the party feel about this?
I say, let the story take its course; if it stays fun, great. If it gets too disruptive or starts frustrating the other players, just have the PC get discovered, arrested by the authorities, and let the rest of the party decide if they want to pay for his legal defense, mount a rescue mission, or let him hang for his crimes.
It's bound to happen eventually, especially in or near a big city.
Oh, this guy is masterful at roleplay. It's a mixed campaign, msotly neutral characters, but he hides it really. He hasn't been found out yet, and unless the druid(the only good character) gets suspicious, I don't think the group would be too upset about the atrocities commited. He's one of those silver tongued role players.
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Oh, this guy is masterful at roleplay. It's a mixed campaign, msotly neutral characters, but he hides it really. He hasn't been found out yet, and unless the druid(the only good character) gets suspicious, I don't think the group would be too upset about the atrocities commited. He's one of those silver tongued role players.Well, his character is also an assassin(fun story, no time to tell it) and part of his character's offer is to sell the soul gem to the contractor, so they can watch their enemy's torment.Considering this, the player is probably Chaotic Neutral, flirting with Chaotic Evil then? How does the rest of the party feel about this?
I say, let the story take its course; if it stays fun, great. If it gets too disruptive or starts frustrating the other players, just have the PC get discovered, arrested by the authorities, and let the rest of the party decide if they want to pay for his legal defense, mount a rescue mission, or let him hang for his crimes.
It's bound to happen eventually, especially in or near a big city.
Awesome. All the more reason to let him carry on with his ideas and watch what happens.
It sounds like it would be a lot of fun to watch what happens when he gets caught/questioned by local law enforcement.You could even have a trial...
Or see how he tries to negotiate with a high CR demon in the soul market. One that he could never defeat in combat, but really, really wants his soul stones.
Sounds like a lot of fun.