taldanrebel2187 |
1) Grease an enemy monk grappler's hands to give him permanent -10 to grapple
2) Ready a grease spell to foil a charging enemy barbarian (forcing him to slip and completely lose his action/attack entirely)
3) Grease an enemy's weapon before they draw it, as a readied action
4) Grease an enemy cleric's holy symbol
5) Grease the area around someone in a tangleburn bag, making them even more screwed if they get free from it
Also can I combine these with persistent spell, spontaneous metafocus and magical lineage trait and wayang spellhunter trait to force the enemy to make 2 reflex saves from level 1. As a standard action through spontaneous metafocus?
Umbranus |
1) I don't think that'll work
2) should work
3) What's the difference of greasing it as a readied action to just greasing it.
4) standard use
5) Not sure I get what you mean.
Grease can be made better with acid in most cases.
What I wanted to do is grease enemy armor with using acid as power component. Deals a lot of damage for a 1st level spell. But takes its time to do so.
But I've been told it wasn't a legal use of the spell.
Claxon |
1) No, I don't think that's valid.
2) Assuming you mean ready to grease the ground in front of him as he is charging and possibly lose the action if he fails the check? Then yes.
3) Agreed with Umbranus, a greased weapon is a greased weapon. Readied action or not wont make a huge difference.
4) Yes, depending on the type of holy symbol and such. It may be ineffective depending on it's location and type.
5) Seems like a pretty normal use, but requires either two chracter actions in the same round, or 1 character over the course of two rounds. Grease isn't flammable (just an fyi). All it really means is that if they manage to extinguish themself they still will have trouble getting out of that area.
SlimGauge |
3) I think the OP is asking if he can ready an action to grease an opponent's weapon if they attempt to draw it. Yes, but they aren't forced to attempt to draw the weapon that you greased. If you grease the dagger Merisiel is reaching for, she'll just grab one of others. Your readied spell happens before her action to draw. She's committed to drawing a weapon, but not necessarily the one you greased.
Zahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16 |
In 3.0 (which makes for bad justification under the PF ruleset), on several occasions I greased a companion's head, in order to keep an Illithid from being able to latch on.
In Pathfinder, I have regularly "greased the gnome," in order to keep him from getting grappled, or to increase his chances of getting free. It has become a running joke actually, and he no longer squawks when I grease him as a "pre-buff."
Gwen Smith |
From the Grease spell...
"The spell can also be used to create a greasy coating on an item. Material objects not in use are always affected by this spell, while an object wielded or employed by a creature requires its bearer to make a Reflex saving throw to avoid the effect. If the initial saving throw fails, the creature immediately drops the item. A saving throw must be made in each round that the creature attempts to pick up or use the greased item. A creature wearing greased armor or clothing gains a +10 circumstance bonus on Escape Artist checks and combat maneuver checks made to escape a grapple, and to their CMD to avoid being grappled."
So...
1) Technically, no, but since unarmed strike can be considered a weapon, you might be able to talk a GM into it (but they would count as "wielded" and get a Reflex save). Alternatively, you could argue that if the grappler were greased, then all target creatures should get the circumstance bonus to escape (which would functionally give the grappler a -10 penalty). In either case, it would not be "permanent".
2) Absolutely. "A creature can walk within or through the area of grease at half normal speed with a DC 10 Acrobatics check. Failure means it can't move that round (and must then make a Reflex save or fall), while failure by 5 or more means it falls." (I'm guessing the point of readying is to drop it mid-charge so he doesn't have a chance to run around it.)
3) Yes. I would call a sheathed weapon "not wielded" for this purpose, but your GM might rule differently.
4) Yes, but the holy symbol would definitely count as "wielded".
5) If you're just trying to make them stay in the area, yes. If you're trying to catch the greased area on fire, there's nothing in the grease spell that says it burns, and since the spell component is butter (which is not very flammable), I'm guessing the intent is that Grease doesn't burn. (Now if they used a plain vegetable oil or bacon grease, I would say it's definitely supposed to burn!) However, grease was flammable through several versions of D&D, so a lot GMs still use that rule.
Claxon |
5) If you're just trying to make them stay in the area, yes. If you're trying to catch the greased area on fire, there's nothing in the grease spell that says it burns, and since the spell component is butter (which is not very flammable), I'm guessing the intent is that Grease doesn't burn. (Now if they used a plain vegetable oil or bacon grease, I would say it's definitely supposed to burn!) However, grease was...
In the Beginner's Box, which JJ wrote, it specifically states that the grease created by the Grease spell is non-flammable. While it lacks that note in the non-Beginner's version, it is clearly not intended to be flammable in Pathfinder as it was in days gone by.
darth_borehd |
Gwen Smith wrote:In the Beginner's Box, which JJ wrote, it specifically states that the grease created by the Grease spell is non-flammable. While it lacks that note in the non-Beginner's version, it is clearly not intended to be flammable in Pathfinder as it was in days gone by.
5) If you're just trying to make them stay in the area, yes. If you're trying to catch the greased area on fire, there's nothing in the grease spell that says it burns, and since the spell component is butter (which is not very flammable), I'm guessing the intent is that Grease doesn't burn. (Now if they used a plain vegetable oil or bacon grease, I would say it's definitely supposed to burn!) However, grease was...
That's been discussed in depth in several threads. Consensus of the developers is that being flammable was never intended and beyond the scope of a 1st level spell. One of them, Sean K. Reynolds I think, said he would allow it to be ignited only by higher level fire spells and effects that do a significant amount of hit points in damage, but that it would only behave like burning oil for 1 round at best. I think the phrase used was to think of it as magical butter or lard in that it can be flammable but only when it gets very hot.
DrDeth |
Grease is certainly not flammable, as the Mythic version is called out as being flammable as a added feature:
"Source grease
If you cast mythic grease on an area, add your tier to the Acrobatics DC to move within or through the area. If you cast it on a creature's armor or clothing, add your tier to its Escape Artist checks and combat maneuver checks attempted to escape a grapple and to its CMD to avoid being grappled.
Augmented: You can expend two uses of mythic power to make the grease flammable. It ignites from any fire at least the size of a candle flame. If a greased area is ignited, any creature in the area on your turn takes 1d3 points of fire damage and might catch on fire. If a greased creature is ignited, it takes 2d6 points of fire damage, and might catch on fire; add your tier to the save DC."
Gwen Smith |
Grease is certainly not flammable, as the Mythic version is called out as being flammable as a added feature:
"Source grease
If you cast mythic grease on an area, add your tier to the Acrobatics DC to move within or through the area. If you cast it on a creature's armor or clothing, add your tier to its Escape Artist checks and combat maneuver checks attempted to escape a grapple and to its CMD to avoid being grappled.Augmented: You can expend two uses of mythic power to make the grease flammable. It ignites from any fire at least the size of a candle flame. If a greased area is ignited, any creature in the area on your turn takes 1d3 points of fire damage and might catch on fire. If a greased creature is ignited, it takes 2d6 points of fire damage, and might catch on fire; add your tier to the save DC."
I haven't seen the Mythic book yet. Thanks for the clarification.