Just as the question asks, does a lich's phylactery need to be on the same plane as the lich to restore said lich upon destruction. I can see this going either way but I can't find anything RAW that dictates one way or another. For further reference, the text on a phylactery is shown below.
An integral part of becoming a lich is the creation of the phylactery in which the character stores his soul. The only way to get rid of a lich for sure is to destroy its phylactery. Unless its phylactery is located and destroyed, a lich can rejuvenate after it is killed (see Creating a lich , below).
Each lich must create its own phylactery by using the Craft Wondrous Item feat. The character must be able to cast spells and have a caster level of 11th or higher. The phylactery costs 120,000 gp to create and has a caster level equal to that of its creator at the time of creation.
The most common form of phylactery is a sealed metal box containing strips of parchment on which magical phrases have been transcribed. The box is Tiny and has 40 hit points, hardness 20, and a break DC of 40.
Other forms of phylacteries can exist, such as rings, amulets, or similar items.[/quote}
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No. If they needed to be on the same plane then simply using a ropetrick spell would be problematc for a lich. Plane travel is a Big part of high level action and if a lich couldent do that it would have been mentioned.
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I always liked making a phylactery out of a common coin and putting it into circulation. ;)
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I always liked making a phylactery out of a common coin and putting it into circulation. ;)
Hopefully they wouldn't be in someones pocket during the 1d10 days they needed to reform.
Though I like the idea.
1) Create a phylactery out of a common coin. (throw in a magic aura effect for good measure to appear non-magical)
2) Create a deimplane and fill it with loose coin (including your phylactery)
3) Create a dummy phylactery and protect it with all kinds of devious things just in case
So in the off chance the heroes do find your plane, bypass the traps, destroy your (fake) phylactery, they'll gather up all the gold (including your real phylactery) and go back to the prime to spend it. 1d10 days later you reform and smite the crap out of them. Seriously, who bothers to carefully study gold coins beyond verifying they're gold.
Edit: OOHHH!! Better yet make your phylactery out of fools gold so that eventually it'll just be thrown away anyhow.
Coins are usually melted Down and remade quite often because they are quite fragile. And to gurantee they keep the weigth. At least that is how it was back in the days.
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I would not even bother with the gold piece. Just a common rock buried in an area full of rocks.
In a private demiplane. Guarded by a dragon sitting on his hoard.
Who believes the real phylactery is the huge diamond in the magically protected iron coffer he's sitting on.
I like casting delayed forbiddance on the entierty of a small demiplane and then shifting out. You cant destroy what you cant access.
I like casting delayed forbiddance on the entierty of a small demiplane and then shifting out. You cant destroy what you cant access.
How would you leave?
I like casting delayed forbiddance on the entierty of a small demiplane and then shifting out. You cant destroy what you cant access.How would you leave?
Its delayed, so it goes off 1-5 rounds (your choice) after you cast it. Simply cast, then use any kind of planar travel to escape. The next round the spell comes into effect and "locks" the plane. Kind of like locking your door from the inside and then closing it on your way out.
The caveat to this is that you can only get back in by dying so it would probably be good to leave just your phylactery there. The next time you die you just have to reform, dispel the effect, and then cast the spell again.
Occasionally you would have to leave to go gather components for the spell (or scrolls) and at those times your demiplane would not be guarded (you might want to take the phylactery with you). The other option is to cast miracle if you have a high enough level or a cohort who can do so and avoid the component cost altogether.
As an addendum, using delayed dimensional lock on a plane with the timeless property is strictly better, but you have to reduce the increased spell level in some way as delayed costs 2 levels.
Coins are usually melted Down and remade quite often because they are quite fragile. And to gurantee they keep the weigth. At least that is how it was back in the days.
Ok, time to upgrade to a nice diamond...wait...I am imagining the irony of a phylactery being used for a raise dead spell.
Anyway, the principle is the same: get a wagon full of diamonds, and just let the players dump them into a bag of holding and slink out 1d10 days later. Preferably while they sleep, so you can silently murder them.
Use whatever counts as the ground of your demiplane as your phylactery. How would the even destroy that? Can you imagine being 'rebirn' from a planet?!
I've always like the idea of making a lich's phylactery a living person and/or bloodline, instead of an object. Added points if that person is either a PC or an NPC the party has grown attached to; either they are killed or the lich continues his reign of terror. In the case of a bloodline, the party would likely have to hunt down all of the lich's descendants, after first uncovering who they all are... that or find a way to reliably imprison and/or render the lich powerless (an option some parties might not even consider, but which should be possible if they're resourceful enough).
I've always like the idea of making a lich's phylactery a living person and/or bloodline, instead of an object. Added points if that person is either a PC or an NPC the party has grown attached to; either they are killed or the lich continues his reign of terror. In the case of a bloodline, the party would likely have to hunt down all of the lich's descendants, after first uncovering who they all are... that or find a way to reliably imprison and/or render the lich powerless (an option some parties might not even consider, but which should be possible if they're resourceful enough).
'Hey you ever want to be an elf? Yeah?' *slice*
'Ok, ready the reincarnate spell, and lets hope he has good luck. I do not want to explain this to the cops. Hurry up, we have 7 other houses to visit tonight.'
That would be extinguishing the "bloodline".
That would be extinguishing the "bloodline".
Not if the old body is used to create the new one...
That would be extinguishing the "bloodline".Not if the old body is used to create the new one...
The new body would be of a different species, most likely, which would mean that the character's genes have changed. New genes = new bloodline.
Where are people getting all of these 'person' or 'the ground' phylacteries from? I guess they are cool ideas... but your phylactery has to be a crafted object like a box, ring, amulet or similar, so none of these things qualify.
.... I'm being the no fun guy, aren't I. :-(
*edit*
as for the mundane object ideas, remember that the phylactery will detect as magic, so hiding it in plain sight as a coin or similar is probably a bad idea: the next time the resident wizard scans it'll ping.
I've always used an amulet... And already enchanted amulet of something the PCs would find useless. Gets sold to YOMS, where usually it'll reform and have lots of toys to play with for his revenge.
That said, I've always home-brewed the destroying of the Lich. The party has to go INSIDE the Phylactery and battle with the Lich's soul. When it's defeated, only THEN is the phylactery and Lich destroyed.
Makes Liches out to be much more epic boss fights. Oh, so you think you've won have you? Sorry, gotta fight him again INSIDE his Phylactery. The longer you take, the stronger he gets... How long dare you wait?
Coins are usually melted Down and remade quite often because they are quite fragile. And to gurantee they keep the weigth. At least that is how it was back in the days.
OOOHHHH I know this one. Coins in America are melted down and reformed every 18 years.
as for the mundane object ideas, remember that the phylactery will detect as magic, so hiding it in plain sight as a coin or similar is probably a bad idea: the next time the resident wizard scans it'll ping.
The Magic Aura spell was mentioned. Plus it's basically implied with this kind of thing.
Whatever the phylactery is it should be intelligent so it can take protective action while you're reforming. Teleport to the middle of nowhere for instance.
Where are people getting all of these 'person' or 'the ground' phylacteries from? I guess they are cool ideas... but your phylactery has to be a crafted object like a box, ring, amulet or similar, so none of these things qualify.
I know that, and that's what everyone would be expecting. Creating a unique lich whose phylactery is non-standard would make for an interesting story arc, and as a GM you can always rule that your particular lich found/invented a new method of attaining lichdom.
Where are people getting all of these 'person' or 'the ground' phylacteries from? I guess they are cool ideas... but your phylactery has to be a crafted object like a box, ring, amulet or similar, so none of these things qualify.I know that, and that's what everyone would be expecting. Creating a unique lich whose phylactery is non-standard would make for an interesting story arc, and as a GM you can always rule that your particular lich found/invented a new method of attaining lichdom.
By definition aren't all methods of attaining lichdom unique?
Yes, but I'm suggesting archaic or new forms of lichdom which don't require tangible phylacteries. Splitting your soul among your living descendants, for example, might be one such method of surviving your own death.
An even better idea on the coin idea. Make it a super tiny coin of platinum, then coat it in electrum. Line of effect is now blocked, then cast "harden" and nystuls magic aura on the "electrum" coin to be safe. Then casually lose this "worthless" and "near unbreakable" electrum coin into a random couch cushion. Even if it is found, it will be spent or thrown away so fast because no one likes carrying around "worthless" money. Incidentally, saying it has to be a box/ring/amulet or similar is semantics. Take a chain and put it on a coin and you have a necklace, all you did was add a chain. So yes, a coin still qualifies.
I do have to say, I like the idea of making the phylactery a simple rock. After all, in their most basic forms, all rings/amulets and such are basically just formed elements of rocks.
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Or having, like, seven horcruxes phylacteries! Nothing could go wrong!
Neat idea: make the phylactery a rug that really pulls the room together.
In reality, it is actually an intelligent carpet of flying that has a magic aura spell cast on it (or give it the ability to cast magic aura on itself) to make it appear to be a perfectly normal rug. If its true nature is discovered, or if it is in danger of being destroyed, it flies off to seek refuge in one of numerous, secluded locations, designated by the lich or, failing that, some other safe location. To further this goal, give it the ability to cast invisibility 3 times a day to conceal itself and/or teleport once a day to escape situations where it is unable to simply fly away.
Though, truth be told, I like the bloodline idea, especially if done with a particularly...virile/fertile bloodline. Imagine if Genghis Kahn's bloodline was a lich's phylactery.
RAW may say it must be a box or a ring/amulet or similar item, but as I said, an amulet is simply a small rounded piece of metal with a chain attached to it. An example of this is Pirates of the Caribbean and the coin that was turned into a medallion(amulet). So as a point of fact, a coin is a valid target as the writings are simply inscribed onto the coin. Then surround it with worthless metal like electrum, and line of effect is blocked so no one can detect it. To make it more confusing, enchant the "electrum" coin to give a luck bonus, then Harden/Nystul's Magic Aura it so if one tries to detect it and does punch through the aura, they will think "awesome, I got a luck coin!"
There is another type of phylactery in Sandstorm where you split it 7 times, probably where that talentless hack of a writer got her idea from.
As for attaching it to people, that's easy, implants. Just under the skin. The person is "unnaturally" lucky lol.
Some aspiring liches are super intelligent. Some possess unearthly wisdom. Some fit both categories. Even the ones casting off charisma have enough wits to survive to level 12 or higher.
If we can think of objects that would make better phylacteries than little boxes with scraps of paper do, surely would-be liches could too. Frankly, they’d probably have better ideas than any of us dopes.
And yet most phylacteries are little boxes with scraps of paper.
That suggests that aspirant liches don’t actually have a lot of choice when it comes to creating them. The quest to become a lich is said to be long and arduous and intensely personal. I’d say that there’s very little tolerance for variance in the final product.
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Some aspiring liches are super intelligent. Some possess unearthly wisdom. Some fit both categories. Even the ones casting off charisma have enough wits to survive to level 12 or higher.
Well, while the level 12 thing is certainly true...I am unsure about how intelligent the usual lich might be. As the daily bestiary discussed in its article on Worms that Walk, liches are often those that 'settle' for a lesser state of immortality due to their inability to attain and protect it with a living body.
Of course, that could still end up as rather fun. Imagine a flaky sorcerer that misread the instructions for a magical circle and ended up making the wrong object their phylactery. Imagine the surprise of some hireling you sent to strip down the valuables that WERE nailed down being jumped by a lich jumping out of the oven. (note to self-a good hint for this might be to have all the undead in the dungeon have a 'burnt' theme. And that would be thematically appropriate if this was a blaster sorcerer with a 'shoot first, have someone cast Speak with Dead later' mentality.)
So the point- maybe make the objects used not perfectly planned, but fortunate (if embarrassing) flukes.
Sounds pretty cool.
“But...but it’s so interesting and unique to make a lich’s phylactery be a mountain range!” There we must simply disagree. I prefer that liches evoke the glamor of legends and fairy tales, where the immortal sorceror hides his life in a small, apparently fragile object. See, for example, the myriad stories about Koschei the Immortal.
And we prefer that sometimes something out of the ordinary happens. If every lich has a similar item, what's the point? Why can't there be different methods?
It's not just your game, you know. We will run our adventures how we want. If I want a terrible Lich Tarrasque's phylactery to be a single dandelion in a field of roses, I'm going to.
Who cares if we change monsters up? The meta gaming players who have read the Bestiaries and 'know' what you look for? ;)
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That's what metamagic is for (Silent Spell).
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I'm just annoyed because my GM feels that the only creatures who would even think about becoming liches are humans and half-humans. Like, I can understand in most circumstances elves and gnomes wouldn' even consider becoming a lich. But what about a drow priestess of Orcus? One of his ideals is undeath, so wouldn't it make sense for her to attain undeath?
Or what if a spell was made, or more like a curse now that I think about it, where if the target dies and is still affected by the curse, their soul is bound to a pre-made phylactery and their forced to be a lich or graveknight? Wouldn't that just be the best way to troll some righteous Paladin, turn him into something that he hates and wants to smite?
Of course, that brings up the question of whether their alignment would change. At heart, while no longer beating, they didn't make the choice to become one of the undead, so would they suddenly loathe the living? Would they strike out against their allies or would they be given the chance to try and break the curse and be ressurected? Like, the longer they are undead, the closer and closer they come to evil until they can't hold on to their sanity anymore and just break, finally a true being of the undead, their will broken and their hands soaked with their friends' and families' blood?
It would certainly make for some interesting stories.
Any creature with a mortal lifespan would consider it. 3.5 even had lich dragons--> dracoliches.
As for forcing someone into lichdom, it is almost impossible except by GM Fiat. The process is very personal, so a lot of research must be done to make it work for that person. That person must also do terrible things.
As long as the paladin was not turned to be evil he would use the powers to do good. Being a lich is not bad for a paladin becaues he is a lich. It would be the corruption of his mind to an evil creature that would make him not want it.
A good lich paladin could go on to be a great hero, however.