Non-Lawful Monk


Pathfinder Society

Sczarni

So, I have a level 2 character that hasn't played yet.

Would it be legal for her to start as a Chaotic Good Monk 1/Fighter 1, and just assume she's an ex-Monk?

I know a Martial Artist Monk can be non-lawful but it doesn't mesh with Master of Many Styles, and I need a free Dragon Style.

5/5 5/5 *

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/classes/monk.html#_monk

Quote:

Ex-Monks

A monk who becomes nonlawful cannot gain new levels as a monk but retains all monk abilities.


I don't see why you couldn't do it.

Sczarni

Yay!

Silver Crusade * Venture-Agent, Florida–Altamonte Springs

Although you might want to go to 3rd level monk first and get Monastic Legacy first to allow your unarmed strike to advance as you level. The reason I say third is because you need still mind first.

Sczarni

That won't be a problem. Natural weapons, yo.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

It won't help you get Chaotic Good, but if you're okay with Neutral Good, you could always get adopted by Aasimars, using the Adopted trait.

EDIT: Also, Look at this awesome archetype for Fighter, if you want Dragon Style for free.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Maybe look into the new Brawler class? It's a hybrid of Monk and Fighter.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

I have a problem with this level of using the rules to get what you want.

I probably would seriously think about whether a character was legal by going this route.

The Exchange 5/5 RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Andrew, I think it would be. I would certainly allow a 1st-level Master of Many Styles monk. At the beginning of 2nd level, I can see no reason in PFS to deny the player character a sudden change of perspective -- perhaps some authority figure lost her respect -- and a change to Chaotic Good alignment.

If it were a home game, I would probably recommend an atonement spell, which is tailor-made to allow such radical shifts in outlook.

Having said that, every other piece of advice in this thread seems pretty solid. (Although I don't think Brawler is going to give her what she wants.)

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Game balance wasn't really made to consider single level dips here and there. Some of the most powerful build options include single level dips to completely overcome a weakness or get some ability that scales way out of whack with other abilities.

Considering that, using the fairly ambiguous alignment changing rules in Pathfinder, coupled with the extremely player friendly allowances of such in PFS, it feels to me like an abuse of legal rules, rather than simply a use of legal rules.

In a home game, likely the repercusions would be more stringent than simply an atonement. They'd also have to deal with the ire of whatever monastery or master they trained with.

Grand Lodge 2/5

I did something similar to this in the local Kingmaker campaign (yes, I know that's not PFS, but the principle still works). I had a character die and was bringing in a new character at level 6 - monk 4/cleric 2, but I wanted to be a cleric of Calistria (who is CN).

I worked it into my backstory that the character had shifted from LN to N "off-camera" before entering into the game. It was kind of a religious revelation, and turning her back on her old way of doing things. I think if you can come up with a reason why your character made that transition people are going to be a lot more forgiving than if it sounds like you are just trying to hodgepodge together the combination of abilities you want.

Grand Lodge 2/5

So in PFS it would be legal to start off as a lvl Paladin then change your alignment and make a cleric of Gorum?

*

From "Blood of Angels"
take the Agathion Aasimar variant with the Enlightened Warrior Trait which allows you to be Neutral or Neutral Good and take levels in Monk...can anyone say Barbarian Monk?

The Exchange 5/5 RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

claudekennilol, absolutely. Bear in mind, that the penalties for changing alignment are more drastic for a paladin than for a monk.

Quote:
A paladin who ceases to be lawful good, ... loses all paladin spells and class features (including the service of the paladin's mount, but not weapon, armor, and shield proficiencies). She may not progress any further in levels as a paladin.

Grand Lodge 2/5

Chris Mortika wrote:

claudekennilol, absolutely. Bear in mind, that the penalties for changing alignment are more drastic for a paladin than for a monk.

Quote:
A paladin who ceases to be lawful good, ... loses all paladin spells and class features (including the service of the paladin's mount, but not weapon, armor, and shield proficiencies). She may not progress any further in levels as a paladin.

It's probably just because I don't know the rules, but characters can just change their alignment at will and not have to have it be as a result of some action? (though I guess technically a paladin falling from grace and changing classes could be some kind of "action"..)

Silver Crusade 2/5 *

Andrew Christian wrote:

Game balance wasn't really made to consider single level dips here and there. Some of the most powerful build options include single level dips to completely overcome a weakness or get some ability that scales way out of whack with other abilities.

Considering that, using the fairly ambiguous alignment changing rules in Pathfinder, coupled with the extremely player friendly allowances of such in PFS, it feels to me like an abuse of legal rules, rather than simply a use of legal rules.

In a home game, likely the repercusions would be more stringent than simply an atonement. They'd also have to deal with the ire of whatever monastery or master they trained with.

I've seen lots of very powerful builds that involve single or double level dips. They are all perfectly legal, and so there's not much to be done in PFS. The game is not balanced anyway. Rogue class exists. Imbalance achieved.

The Exchange 5/5 RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

claudekennilol, let's look at the rules for changing alignment.

Quote:
If a character wants to change his alignment, let him—in most cases, this should amount to little more than a change of personality, or in some cases, no change at all if the alignment change was more of an adjustment to more accurately summarize how a player, in your opinion, is portraying his character. In some cases, changing alignments can impact a character's abilities. An atonement spell may be necessary to repair damage done by alignment changes arising from involuntary sources or momentary lapses in personality.

In PFS, it's not really the table judge who controls a PC's alignment, but rather the player. So, yes, alignment can swing pretty wildly.

Quote:
Players who frequently have their characters change alignment should in all likelihood be playing chaotic neutral characters.

Bear in mind, in PFS, a character can change his/her sex after every scenario. Alignment seems a simpler thing to change.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

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Andrew Christian wrote:
I have a problem with this level of using the rules to get what you want.

I don't.

1/5

Me neither.

Sczarni

I actually did build her as an Unarmed Fighter first, but the Unarmed Fighter archetype is so boring. So she's a Lore Warden now.

TBH the main reasons she's not a full monk is because I've already done a Master of Many Styles, I like how many feats Fighters get, and at some point I want her to light herself on fire and bust through a wall Kool-Aid Man style and that doesn't sound very Lawful.

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Violinist wrote:
and at some point I want her to light herself on fire and bust through a wall Kool-Aid Man style and that doesn't sound very Lawful.

It is if your King told you to do it.

The Exchange 3/5

Dylos wrote:
Violinist wrote:
and at some point I want her to light herself on fire and bust through a wall Kool-Aid Man style and that doesn't sound very Lawful.
It is if your King told you to do it.

That's the required entrance for any of the Kooladian Royal Family and their honor guard. Anything else would be perceived as a purposefully intended slight.

4/5

Chris Mortika wrote:
Bear in mind, in PFS, a character can change his/her sex after every scenario. Alignment seems a simpler thing to change.

Huh? How are players allowed to change character gender after the first level retraining has passed?

Shadow Lodge

Jeffrey Fox wrote:
Chris Mortika wrote:
Bear in mind, in PFS, a character can change his/her sex after every scenario. Alignment seems a simpler thing to change.
Huh? How are players allowed to change character gender after the first level retraining has passed?

How is not important, but here is the relevant link.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Jeffrey Fox wrote:
Chris Mortika wrote:
Bear in mind, in PFS, a character can change his/her sex after every scenario. Alignment seems a simpler thing to change.
Huh? How are players allowed to change character gender after the first level retraining has passed?

Even better, you can change your sex and your gender ;-)

4/5

Dylos wrote:
Jeffrey Fox wrote:
Chris Mortika wrote:
Bear in mind, in PFS, a character can change his/her sex after every scenario. Alignment seems a simpler thing to change.
Huh? How are players allowed to change character gender after the first level retraining has passed?
How is not important, but here is the relevant link.

Never saw that post, thanks.

Shadow Lodge *

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
Dylos wrote:
Jeffrey Fox wrote:
Chris Mortika wrote:
Bear in mind, in PFS, a character can change his/her sex after every scenario. Alignment seems a simpler thing to change.
Huh? How are players allowed to change character gender after the first level retraining has passed?
How is not important, but here is the relevant link.

How is *extremely* important -- just not in PFS. :)

Thanks for the link -- I can't believe I missed that thread.

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