Goblin Squad Member
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I'm re-reading the Blog entry: Alignment and Reputation.
Near the top, under the section headed, "Reputation," I would like to bring out the following two quotes:
Reputation only affects your interactions with other players; it has no bearing on your interactions with NPCs, quests, escalation cycles, or other PvE content.and
Reputation has no direct effect on combat, crafting, or skills, but does limit availability of training, facilities, and social interactions.
(emphasis mine)
Okay, that's great.
But what about all this stuff in the section headed, "Settlements, Reputation, and Alignment," ??:
Having a Reputation below -2500 means you cannot safely enter most NPC or starter settlements.
(emphasis mine)
But you just said.... wait, what?
And there's a little bit more regarding NPCs, too, albeit speaking of NPCs in player settlements (still NPCs in my book??):
Player settlements can set a minimum Reputation to enter safely; if your Reputation is below this value the guards will attack you and none of the NPCs will talk to you.
(emphasis mine)
So, I'm confused. It would clearly seem to me that reputation clearly does impact your interactions with NPCs... But you said it wouldn't.... Gyah, my head!
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Goblin Squad Member
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I spent a few days being mad about this general subject.
Best information is that the former quotes were given in an easily misunderstood context and your latter quotes are more likely to be practical reality in the game. So:
Settlements need higher average Reputation to get access to advanced training...
Which comes from higher settlement minimum Reputation threshholds and residents maintaining higher Reputations...
If a character regularly pvps outside of GWs structures they'll have a much harder time keeping membership in a settlement with access to train more than basic skills... and for some reason be funneled towards CE.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Settlements need higher average Reputation to get access to advanced training...
Shouldn't that read," Characters need higher average Reputation to get access to advanced training."
From what I understand, Settlements don't have a Reputation rating, they only set requirements for characters to have a certain rep to enter or use their stuff.
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Goblin Squad Member
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High settlement Reputation through the thresholds they set.
The way they wrote it, it's qualities of the settlement including Reputation threshold that allow for advanced facilities, and minimum Reputations that allow characters into the settlement.
A high Rep character in an insufficiently qualified settlement is still stuck with whatever basic training the settlement can muster.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yeah, that's what I see too. For higher Tiers of a facility, the Reputation Threshold must be set higher. So if a character has a lower rep than that they can't use it.
It's the big difference between saying a settlement has or needs a certain Reputation vs saying a settlement has or needs a certain Reputation Threshold.
The first is saying that the settlement itself needs or requires Reputation of a certain level, which is untrue. It will continue to function and be a settlement regardless of the reputation of its members.
The second says that in order to exist as the settlement is designed and have certain properties like advanced facilities, the settlement must place its Reputation Threshold at a certain level.
It's just one word but Threshold conveys a very different meaning here.
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Goblin Squad Member
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A reputation system is a lie, there is only human interaction.
Through human interaction you will find meaning.
Meaning will bring you enjoyment.
Enjoyment will make you resubscribe.
Re subscribing will bring GW $$$
Well there is my parody of the Sith Code.
I do not believe the reputation system will be as layered as the Devs have said. If it were it would be far too limiting on PvP, and there is little else to do in PFO, other than PvP. How many escalations are you going to grind before you get bored of grinding escalation?
Go play Rift for a week and tell me how interesting that remains.
Alignment will have even less meaning for anyone not a Paladin or some other class type with an alignment system. We will set alignment and forget it. They have said, no consequence is being considered if core and active alignment are out of sync.
Why won't GW just admit this now?
They are afraid some people will immediately jump on the "This is just another murder sim MMO, like all the others". That sentiment has nothing to do with reality now or projected forward. Many of those people who have labeled other games as murder sims either have little or no experience actually playing them or have had Ryan Dancey himself correct them and say "absolutely not, Eve is not a murder sim". (paraphrased).
My honest belief is there will be an EE community and there will be an OE community, and maybe 10-20% of EE will carry over deeply (6+ mos) into OE. The rest will unsub and the EE culture for whatever it was will be forever a distant memory, and with no lasting impact.
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Goblin Squad Member
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They have said, no consequence is being considered if core and active alignment are out of sync.
Not exactly Bludd:
We've talked about having some sort of debuff when your Core and Active Alignment do not synch up, but we're not sold on it yet.
And this quote from Ryan also answers the OP, there is no "blatant contradiction", there is a system in construction that will need adjustments depending on the way it works during the EE (and I'm sure there will also be plenty of fine tuning too during the OE).
I think the Alignment / Reputation system is a very good design idea, now its effectiveness will depend on a lot of details, most of them being probably pointless to discuss until we have an opportunity to assess them in-game.
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I do not believe the reputation system will be as layered as the Devs have said. If it were it would be far too limiting on PvP, and there is little else to do in PFO, other than PvP. How many escalations are you going to grind before you get bored of grinding escalation?
You dont lose rep for PvP'ing in Feuds, Wars, Factional PvP and killing already other hostile players. The major reason the rep system was introduced was to penalize the constant meaningless PKs. How many ''meaningless'' kills we can get away with without losing too much rep is TBD. So yes you can do plenty of PvP and still be high rep.
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Goblin Squad Member
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My honest belief is there will be an EE community and there will be an OE community, and maybe 10-20% of EE will carry over deeply (6+ mos) into OE. The rest will unsub and the EE culture for whatever it was will be forever a distant memory, and with no lasting impact.
What if it becomes a venue for large chunks of Pathfinder people to come RP at each other in a more engaged way than through forums?
What if this becomes the breakthrough title for female gamers (something waiting on the rain-slicked edge of the cliff for a while now) and that hyper-masculine parody culture can never get solidly rooted?
It's hubristic to prophecize about the fate of the game or its characters and settlements before it's even gone into alpha.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I do not believe the reputation system will be as layered as the Devs have said. If it were it would be far too limiting on PvP, and there is little else to do in PFO, other than PvP. How many escalations are you going to grind before you get bored of grinding escalation?You dont lose rep for PvP'ing in Feuds, Wars, Factional PvP and killing already other hostile players. The major reason the rep system was introduced was to penalize the constant meaningless PKs. How many ''meaningless'' kills we can get away with without losing too much rep is TBD. So yes you can do plenty of PvP and still be high rep.
I agree with you and realize there is plenty of opportunities to PVP without reputation lose.
But I also realize that if everyone has low reputation, then no one has low reputation. If the majority of the population choose to ignore reputation, the reputation system has no meaning.
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But I also realize that if everyone has low reputation, then no one has low reputation. If the majority of the population choose to ignore reputation, the reputation system has no meaning.
I would say that depends on how much reputation influences training. If your settlement is considerably stronger because you are of higher rep then it has meaning.
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Goblin Squad Member
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a gaming culture that sees nothing wrong with their culture.
THAT is assuming the same people from those other games would be the main contingent coming over to this one. But why leave EVE or Darkfall and the rest to start over from scratch if you have to deal with training penalties, the obnoxious way those RPers talk, and all the lectures about being nice to do what you want to do?
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Goblin Squad Member
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a gaming culture that sees nothing wrong with their culture.THAT is assuming the same people from those other games would be the main contingent coming over to this one. But why leave EVE or Darkfall and the rest to start over from scratch if you have to deal with training penalties, the obnoxious way those RPers talk, and all the lectures about being nice to do what you want to do?
Because it is a new game to play. Many players take breaks from EvE, fir months at a time, and then they return. No proof that there will be training penalties. Obnoxious RPers will be mocked and slaughtered by rabid PvPers, WoW has shown us this repeatedly. Players giving lectures about being nice will be brutalized in local chat.
PFO will be no different than every other Open World PvP MMO out there, to believe otherwise is based on what concrete evidence? Please show me an open world PvP MMO that wasn't the way I described.
UO, SWG, EVE, DarkFall, Fallen Earth, Mortal, etc..... I'm sure I missed a few.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Settlements need higher average Reputation to get access to advanced training...Shouldn't that read," Characters need higher average Reputation to get access to advanced training."
From what I understand, Settlements don't have a Reputation rating, they only set requirements for characters to have a certain rep to enter or use their stuff.
This same idea came up in another thread. You can see my full response there.
The key thing to understand is that a Settlement's Development Indexes are a function. One of the variables is the aggregate Reputation of its Members. It's not a simple gate that determines who can enter. It directly impacts the lifeblood currency the Settlement uses.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It's hubristic to prophecize about the fate of the game or its characters and settlements before it's even gone into alpha.No more so than to prophecize that this game will revolutionize a gaming culture that sees nothing wrong with their culture. That is pure naivete.
The "gaming culture" is much larger than the culture that sees nothing wrong with random, meaningless ganking. If Ryan has prophesied anything, it's that PFO might revolutionize the larger gaming culture by reintroducing meaningful PvP.
For the folks from the gaming culture you seem to be talking about, I would recommend seriously contemplating this:
I think that what perhaps what people are missing is the critical factor of feedback.
Most people need guidelines and clear references to understand how their actions influence the results they obtain. Especially when you are talking about something as abstract as an MMO.
My thesis is that a bright, simple, clear guideline is needed to help people make good choices ("good" defined as "generating results that are generally in-line with my expectations and desires")
A second thesis is that a lot of people will come to Pathfinder Online with two incorrect preconceptions about the way the game is played. Those two preconceptions are:
1: Open World PvP implies a murder simulator
2: Killing early, often, and without discrimination is the route to long-term success
These two preconceptions mutually reinforce each other. If #2 is true, #1 is inevitable. This is the trap that game after game after game fell into. (Sometimes they didn't "fall" into it as much as they embraced it as a design paradigm on purpose.)
We are going to break this pattern and we are going to redefine those preconceptions. In order to do that we must repeatedly and powerfully shock the system. One of those shocks is a negative feedback loop that links random killing to gimping character development.
Another, related problem is community toxicity. Observation tells us that toxicity proceeds from a sense of external fairness and justice not applying inside the game world simulation. 90% of people want to be treated fairly and justly. But the anonymous internet lets a small group of sociopaths act unfairly and unjustly - and those actions, if not harshly countered, leads a larger (but still small) group of people to act out power fantasies and work out issues they can't resolve in real life with aggression. The result is that the majority feels they are subjected to unfair and unjust experiences. And they leave.
We are going to actively attack community toxicity from the grass roots up. As I've said before there is no silver bullet to this problem. The approach we're going to use is a multi-layered approach. One of those layers is giving people an extremely clear message about their in-game behavior. If they act badly as defined by the desires of 90% of the community their bad actions will hurt their in-game power level. I feel reasonably confident I can proxy my opinion for what 90% of the people I intend to sell this game to want. We have lots of time to make minor adjustments and consider corner cases.
So the reason we're making a funnel of suck is to make it possible for our players to clearly see it, clearly understand its consequences, clearly understand how their in-game actions relate to that funnel, and clearly see that they can be and will be affected by it. And we accept up front that as a result there are some people who will be so frustrated by the straightjacket that they cannot be satisfied and happy within that system. And that's OK.
(emphasis in original)
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Goblin Squad Member
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My honest belief is there will be an EE community and there will be an OE community, and maybe 10-20% of EE will carry over deeply (6+ mos) into OE. The rest will unsub and the EE culture for whatever it was will be forever a distant memory, and with no lasting impact.What if it becomes a venue for large chunks of Pathfinder people to come RP at each other in a more engaged way than through forums?
What if this becomes the breakthrough title for female gamers (something waiting on the rain-slicked edge of the cliff for a while now) and that hyper-masculine parody culture can never get solidly rooted?
It's hubristic to prophecize about the fate of the game or its characters and settlements before it's even gone into alpha.
Let's be real here and admit that while possible, the bold face is certainly unlikely.
And in my experience, my friends that RP via message boards, reddit, or over MMOs have a fairly different preference in their RP styles than my friends that play Tabletop or PnP RP. And while PFO certainly has the opportunity to mix both of those different playstyles together in a way that brings both players together, I don't find it likely either.Though I would agree that making any real predictions about who hangs around and who doesn't is a pointless exercise. People I have guessed would stick around in other Beta/Alpha games never stayed until release, while first day of retail newbies are still there years later. I could point you to a Lady that played APB since it was in beta, the first time, (you know, before it was canceled and the serves shut down) and is an active forum mod and player to this day.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@ Nihimon,
That is all intent and as the OP points out there are already contradictions to that. For every one statement of intent there are nearly an equal number of contradictions or TBDs.
"Prepare for the worse, hope for the best", is what I recommend. If I'm wrong you lose nothing. If I'm right and you do not prepare, you lose everything.
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Goblin Squad Member
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My honest belief is there will be an EE community and there will be an OE community, and maybe 10-20% of EE will carry over deeply (6+ mos) into OE. The rest will unsub and the EE culture for whatever it was will be forever a distant memory, and with no lasting impact.What if it becomes a venue for large chunks of Pathfinder people to come RP at each other in a more engaged way than through forums?
What if this becomes the breakthrough title for female gamers (something waiting on the rain-slicked edge of the cliff for a while now) and that hyper-masculine parody culture can never get solidly rooted?
It's hubristic to prophecize about the fate of the game or its characters and settlements before it's even gone into alpha.
Let's be real here and admit that while possible, the bold face is certainly unlikely.
And in my experience, my friends that RP via message boards, reddit, or over MMOs have a fairly different preference in their RP styles than my friends that play Tabletop or PnP RP. And while PFO certainly has the opportunity to mix both of those different playstyles together in a way that brings both players together, I don't find it likely either.Though I would agree that making any real predictions about who hangs around and who doesn't is a pointless exercise. People I have guessed would stick around in other Beta/Alpha games never stayed until release, while first day of retail newbies are still there years later. I could point you to a Lady that played APB since it was in beta, the first time, (you know, before it was canceled and the serves shut down) and is an active forum mod and player to this day.
Every female player I have played an MMO with were more hardcore PVPers than I was. They were also very capable of using their gender to dupe unsuspecting gamers into giving them huge portions of their ingame net worth, without a moment's thought.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If all areas outside of your home Settlement/Nation (NPC or Player Run) become equivalent to nul-sec danger level, I feel this game will have achieved the murder simulator status.
But Ryan Dancey rejected the notion that EvE Online was a murder simulator, and that was directed at Andius when he suggested that EvE was.
According to Ryan's definition, PFO can not ever become a murder simulator. That seems to be a label he holds solely for FPSers. Again what we have here is a group of people with limited Open World PVP experience (by their own admission)and limited experience in the games that they have labeled (again by their own admission) as "murder sims" passing on their preconceived notions onto Open World PVP MMOs as a genre.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Every female player I have played an MMO with were more hardcore PVPers than I was. They were also very capable of using their gender to dupe unsuspecting gamers into giving them huge portions of their ingame net worth, without a moment's thought.
I was trained to PVP in Eve by a female. She and her friend (a woman as well) ran with my corp for a year or so, and all we ever did was PVP.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Let's be real here and admit that while possible, the bold face is certainly unlikely.What if this becomes the breakthrough title for female gamers (something waiting on the rain-slicked edge of the cliff for a while now) and that hyper-masculine parody culture can never get solidly rooted?
It's hubristic to prophecize about the fate of the game or its characters and settlements before it's even gone into alpha.
Unlikely, yes. But whatever lucky game does latch on will end up pretty fun; and be pulling in money hand over fist for the next 10 or 15 years. So I can always hope it's one I'm involved with.
It's a more realistic hope to pull in a lot of tabletop people and new-to-MMO people so the murder simulator culture doesn't develop. Depends on where OE advertising dollars go I guess.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I do not believe the reputation system will be as layered as the Devs have said. If it were it would be far too limiting on PvP, and there is little else to do in PFO, other than PvP. How many escalations are you going to grind before you get bored of grinding escalation?
Well, Bluddwolf, I certainly do not agree with you on that, nor does Stephen:
When you're associated with a building--as a manager, worker, crafter, or refiner--we're assuming you're working there in "downtime." That concept is deliberately nebulous.
There will likely be some players for whom their skills are a total sideline. They may be attached as working at a building in or near their home settlement, even though they spend a ton of their time ranging far and wide and don't even log out in their home settlement very often. Some nights they may log out on the other side of the map from home, and we'll still count them as working there the same as someone else that always logs out within a block of the building. If they're owed coin or materials for their effort, they pick them up when they swing through town. This is fun for them.
There will be others that play mostly around town and have a few different skills that make them useful for various projects. They may switch up their association based on whatever's the most profitable for them at the time, and keep an eye on it (e.g., normally work at a particular inn, but switch to construction helper when a new building is going up). They do a lot of adventuring stuff in the area, so they're able to swing back through town regularly to see if there's something better they could be doing with their time, and they're going to "clock in" based on their own agency. This is fun for them.
There will be still others that play almost entirely in town and are dedicated skill-based characters. They maintain multiple crafting queues and potentially still work a side job. They spend most of their playtime optimizing their queues, shuffling item outputs to market, and tracking down materials they need to fill the queues back up with useful projects. They may only leave town when they think it's worth their time to move items to or from a distant source themselves. They'll be practically clocked in all the time. This is fun for them.
I expect to be one of the players in the bolded part. I also was under the impression that a large percentage of Eve players is actually engaged in that sort of high sec stuff, even if they are Alts.
Also, I think High Sec in PFO will be roughly the size of 230x7 hexes; the rest will be low sec. That is still a truckload of hexes to play in if you are not constantly looking for PvP. Sure, playing in those hexes is still a calculated risk (depends a LOT on the Settlement) but I think people can go days without seeing PvP and still have fun.
High Sec harvesting will be a feature. I have already stated that it will most likely be the competitive PvP-folk that will bring home the Tier 3 stuff, not the PvE minded crafters. And that's fine. Not saying someone couldn't mix it up, or we will see "harvesting groups": but I would still expect those harvesting groups to contain quit a few hardcore PvP players.
This game needs both. You underestimate both the Attraction and Power of Tedium. Or what you consider as Tedium. Did you know I sometimes spend 3 hours nonstop checking NPC vendors in Everquest to see if they have a certain crafting ingredient I seek? (NPC vendors in EQ will stock the wares that other players sold to them, and there are thousands of NPC vendors in Everquest).
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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A reputation system is a lie, there is only human interaction.
Through human interaction you will find meaning.
Meaning will bring you enjoyment.
Enjoyment will make you resubscribe.
Re subscribing will bring GW $$$Well there is my parody of the Sith Code.
I do not believe the reputation system will be as layered as the Devs have said. If it were it would be far too limiting on PvP, and there is little else to do in PFO, other than PvP. How many escalations are you going to grind before you get bored of grinding escalation?
Go play Rift for a week and tell me how interesting that remains.
Alignment will have even less meaning for anyone not a Paladin or some other class type with an alignment system. We will set alignment and forget it. They have said, no consequence is being considered if core and active alignment are out of sync.
Why won't GW just admit this now?
They are afraid some people will immediately jump on the "This is just another murder sim MMO, like all the others". That sentiment has nothing to do with reality now or projected forward. Many of those people who have labeled other games as murder sims either have little or no experience actually playing them or have had Ryan Dancey himself correct them and say "absolutely not, Eve is not a murder sim". (paraphrased).
My honest belief is there will be an EE community and there will be an OE community, and maybe 10-20% of EE will carry over deeply (6+ mos) into OE. The rest will unsub and the EE culture for whatever it was will be forever a distant memory, and with no lasting impact.
For the game to be a success, it must have far less non connsensual PvP than EvE. more than 70% of EvE's population is in HS.
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Goblin Squad Member
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For the game to be a success, it must have far less non connsensual PvP than EvE. more than 70% of EvE's population is in HS
What percentage of them are high sec corps supporting low sec or 0.0 operations?
What percentage of them are High Sec mercenary corps that make their business from War deccing other High Sec corps?
How many ships and fittings are lost to PVE as compared to PVP?
The statistic you cite may be true, but it is meaningless without digging deeper into what the number really means or does not mean.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Woah... what happened to this thread overnight? lulz.
I was mostly just concerned about the initial wording (first two quotes in OP). They make it sound like Reputation doesn't matter, mechanically - as if it's only a "warning flag" for other players that could potentially give a clue as to what their playstyle might be (e.g. "This guy's pretty shady looking... I'll walk on the other side of the street").
But clearly, by reading the rest of that blog entry, Reputation certainly has a mechanical, very real effect on your character's ability to interact with elements of the game.
As for discussions about what WHAT those mechanical effects are, those might be better discussed here.
But I don't object to you guys hashing things out here. I'm just looking for a clarification from GW - is it the former, or the latter?
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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For the game to be a success, it must have far less non connsensual PvP than EvE. more than 70% of EvE's population is in HSWhat percentage of them are high sec corps supporting low sec or 0.0 operations?
What percentage of them are High Sec mercenary corps that make their business from War deccing other High Sec corps?
How many ships and fittings are lost to PVE as compared to PVP?
The statistic you cite may be true, but it is meaningless without digging deeper into what the number really means or does not mean.
I won't argue with you, because there is far enough arguing on this forum, but let's just say again that UNC's PvP policy isn't what I don't want in the game. What you officially intend to do is fine, that is not the problem.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm just looking for a clarification from GW - is it the former, or the latter?I have a strong belief if they came here they would say, "TBD".
Quite likely. But in the meantime, the blog post could use some editing. Because as-is, it is as clear as the bottom of the grog barrel.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It figures those two are the guys that pop out with the "I have a ( ) friend" trope.
Woah now, that's a bit of an undeserved personal jab. I only brought up the "I know someone" point to illustrate that it is not easy to tell who will stay with a game. The fact that the player was female is irrelevant, doubly so in this case since she still is and always did play with her boyfriend and I could have just used him as an example.
Let's be real here and admit that while possible, the bold face is certainly unlikely.What if this becomes the breakthrough title for female gamers (something waiting on the rain-slicked edge of the cliff for a while now) and that hyper-masculine parody culture can never get solidly rooted?
It's hubristic to prophecize about the fate of the game or its characters and settlements before it's even gone into alpha.
Unlikely, yes. But whatever lucky game does latch on will end up pretty fun; and be pulling in money hand over fist for the next 10 or 15 years. So I can always hope it's one I'm involved with.
It's a more realistic hope to pull in a lot of tabletop people and new-to-MMO people so the murder simulator culture doesn't develop. Depends on where OE advertising dollars go I guess.
Honestly, I haven't the slightest idea what a group as sweeping and broad as a gender might actually enjoy in a videogame so much that it catches the attention of a considerable number of them without attracting all gamers in general. I don't really see the point in bringing it up, but hey, maybe there's something I'm just missing here. While some people can recall a lot of their female fellow players being PvP focused in MMOs, I've only known of one. I don't think an anecdotal sample of a demographic so massive is relevant enough to bring up.
I would agree with the second point though. PFO has a lot to gain by pulling in the Tabletop crowd that wants an MMO that feels more like a tabletop. Such a group would likely be more keen on endorsing or pursuing role play over mechanic advantage, nuance, or PVP for PVP's sake. Which would probably veer the game away from murder simulator.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Every female player I have played an MMO with were more hardcore PVPers than I was. They were also very capable of using their gender to dupe unsuspecting gamers into giving them huge portions of their ingame net worth, without a moment's thought.
If accurate it may be less a function of what it is to be a female player and more of a function of what it is to be a female player Bluddwolf feels he has known.
I know there are serious PvP players who are female, some truly formidable, but I don't think their numbers approach the total number of female players.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It figures those two are the guys that pop out with the "I have a ( ) friend" trope.Woah now, that's a bit of an undeserved personal jab. I only brought up the "I know someone" point to illustrate that it is not easy to tell who will stay with a game. The fact that the player was female is irrelevant, doubly so in this case since she still is and always did play with her boyfriend and I could have just used him as an example.
She was taking a jab at Bludd and I since we are the horrible people of the PFO forum.
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Goblinworks Lead Game Designer
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Reputation does limit your ability to enter towns across the board. All towns, both player and NPC, have a minimum Reputation that you need to enter safely without being attacked, denied services, etc. For NPC settlements, especially ones like Thornkeep, this is pretty low. For Fort Inevitable, it will likely be higher. For player settlements, the powers that be determine the minimum Reputation to access the settlement safely, but higher end buildings require higher minimum Reputation. Thus high Reputation players can get access to better training, better crafting facilities, etc, while lower Reputation players will have access to those settlements that wish to be "wretched hives of scum and villainy" that will have more moderate offerings. Low Reputation players will also be evident to other players so they can be appropriately wary.
Only interactions with players affect Reputation.
So yes, if you are a maniac who kills indiscriminately, you will soon find yourself without much in the way of places to call home.
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Goblin Squad Member
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PFO will be no different than every other Open World PvP MMO out there, to believe otherwise is based on what concrete evidence?
One difference is that PFO is deliberately drawing its initial culture from a group of people that enjoy roleplaying, and it is linking game mechanics directly to roleplaying elements.
Look at how many settlement in the landrush are making choices based on roleplaying considerations and not pure calculated strategy.
You yourself have a roleplaying background to explain your character's attitudes and actions. Why base your settlement around the idea of the "river freedoms" ? Why not just say "we think killing people to take their stuff is the most efficient way to compete in territory control games"
The more game mechanics that are linked to alignment and reputation and other roleplaying tools, the more different PFO can be.
I am only vaguely familiar with EVE... I believe there are four factions or races? Does the choice of a race have any significant effect on the options and gameplay available to a character?
I hope PFO will make selecting an alignment / race / background have a much stronger influence on future actions, such that two years from now, a new player could assume "a CN elf character will likely take action X, whereas a LG Dwarf would be more likely to Y", and be correct more often that not.
You seem to be claiming "PFO will be no different from EVE or Darkfall", and then arguing against implementing any of the features that could differentiate them.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Reputation does limit your ability to enter towns across the board. All towns, both player and NPC, have a minimum Reputation that you need to enter safely without being attacked, denied services, etc. For NPC settlements, especially ones like Thornkeep, this is pretty low. For Fort Inevitable, it will likely be higher. For player settlements, the powers that be determine the minimum Reputation to access the settlement safely, but higher end buildings require higher minimum Reputation. Thus high Reputation players can get access to better training, better crafting facilities, etc, while lower Reputation players will have access to those settlements that wish to be "wretched hives of scum and villainy" that will have more moderate offerings. Low Reputation players will also be evident to other players so they can be appropriately wary.
Only interactions with players affect Reputation.
So yes, if you are a maniac who kills indiscriminately, you will soon find yourself without much in the way of places to call home.
That's sounds pretty much like what I've been trying to tell people all along. Thanks for clearing that up.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Thank you for clearing everything up and putting this to rest. Are there any plans to edit the blog, specifically this part:Reputation does limit your ability to enter towns across the board. All towns, both player and NPC, have a minimum Reputation that you need to enter safely without being attacked, denied services, etc. For NPC settlements, especially ones like Thornkeep, this is pretty low. For Fort Inevitable, it will likely be higher. For player settlements, the powers that be determine the minimum Reputation to access the settlement safely, but higher end buildings require higher minimum Reputation. Thus high Reputation players can get access to better training, better crafting facilities, etc, while lower Reputation players will have access to those settlements that wish to be "wretched hives of scum and villainy" that will have more moderate offerings. Low Reputation players will also be evident to other players so they can be appropriately wary.
Only interactions with players affect Reputation.
So yes, if you are a maniac who kills indiscriminately, you will soon find yourself without much in the way of places to call home.
Reputation only affects your interactions with other players; it has no bearing on your interactions with NPCs, quests, escalation cycles, or other PvE content.
it really does seem to contradict the rest of it. ;)
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yes, so no direct mechanical influence of a character that is becoming low-rep to the Settlement he belongs to: he just will not be able to enter his own city anymore as long as the Leaders of that city keep the reputation treshold(and thus the quality of the buildings) on the same level.
Good thing to know that members going Low rep will not be able to disadvantage their fellow Settlement members in a direct way.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Good thing to know that members going Low rep will not be able to disadvantage their fellow Settlement members in a direct way.
For the most part. They could increase the corruption/unrest of the settlement by committing crimes or evil acts there. Those are separate issues, but overlap somewhat with reputation.
I'm not sure if there will be other ways for most members to be able to 'sabotage' (intentionally or not) their own settlement. Obviously, anyone with access to development queues, resource banks, and other such 'settlement management' features would be able to do significant damage.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Reputation governs the ability of the player-character to interact with certain desirable systems.
Player-character alignments aggregate in concert with other factors (such as public unrest, possession of relics, and contributing POIs) to affect the ability of a settlement to build/maintain certain desirable systems.
By 'desirable systems' I am referencing training facilities and advanced crafting facilities, et alia. There are consequences to alignment that predicate your access or antipathy to factions as well. Factions come into play to, for example, affect your settlement's defenses outside your vulnerable window.
There is less a contradiction in the system than there is in the understanding of those systems.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Settlements need higher average Reputation to get access to advanced training...Shouldn't that read," Characters need higher average Reputation to get access to advanced training."
Also true, but the development index is determined by the alignment and reputation of settlement constituency. Development Index determines what the settlement can build and maintain.
From what I understand, Settlements don't have a Reputation rating, they only set requirements for characters to have a certain rep to enter or use their stuff.
You are suggesting that settlements are entities, which they are not. A settlement's reputation is an aggregate of the player characters in it.
People tend to group, but remain individuals. Without the individuals the group does not exist. Without the group the individuals can exist. The group is nothing in itself. The identity of the group is the individuals who comprise it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Lee Hammock, did you intend to give this impression?
Yes, so no direct mechanical influence of a character that is becoming low-rep to the Settlement he belongs to: he just will not be able to enter his own city anymore as long as the Leaders of that city keep the reputation treshold(and thus the quality of the buildings) on the same level.
Good thing to know that members going Low rep will not be able to disadvantage their fellow Settlement members in a direct way.