So there's a level 6 Warpriest in my player's party that just hit level 6, and he's going down the bull rush line. We didn't think much of it, or rather, I didn't, but naturally a warpriest doesn't have full base attack bonus unless he's using his main weapon.
So, that said, for all intents and purposes, with a greatsword, his favored sacred weapon, he has a BaB of +6, which sets him up for feats like vital strike, and greater bull rush like he wants to have. The thing is though is that without it, he doesn't.
Does this mean that he's only able to Bull Rush with his Greatsword, as well as Vital Strike? Or is he just not capable of getting either. Has a light been shown on this yet? It's a rather queer situation.
You can't take a feat whose prereqs you only meet in certain situations. Until his BAB is actually +6, he can't take feats that require +6.
Well his actual BAB with that weapon IS 6+, 24/7, 365. It's not a temp bonus.
RAW I'm inclined to agree with Jiggy, RAI I'm heavily inclined to agree with SKR's interpretation.
Well for Vital Strike and other feats that would specifically use the sacred weapon, sure.
But bull rush maneuvers don't use weapons unless there's an ability allowing it to be used, like Shield Slam or Bull Rush Strike, or Unseat. Maybe with the Impact weapon ability he'd count too?
The pseudo-BAB is specifically called out for being for "attacks with that weapon". It doesn't change your BAB for anything else, including qualify for prereq's.
It would be kinda stupid to have pseudo-BAB classes at all if it was otherwise.
It doesn't change your BAB for anything else, including qualify for prereq's.
Do you have a citation for this? I don't see how "attacks with that weapon" means anything special when you're talking about a Base Attack Bonus. How else would you describe it? BAB it the bonus you get for attacking and sacred weapon only works on some weapons so...
Whenever the warpriest is wielding a sacred weapon, he treats his warpriest level as his base attack bonus for attacks made with that weapon, stacking with any base attack bonus from other classes or racial Hit Dice.
He treats his warpriest level as his BAB for attacks made with that weapon. He doesn't actually change his BAB and the modification isn't listed as affecting anything else. I'm mainly arguing this because if you're going to give the warpriest full BAB but only on the weapons he intends to use there's no reason to not just give him full BAB.
I'm not read up on warpeiest but... greatsword is not involved in bullrushing at all. If he is wielding a greatsword and does a bullrush his bab is....+4.
If he did trip disarm sunder it would be +6 with the greatsword.
Flurry of Blows (Ex): Starting at 1st level, a monk can make a flurry of blows as a full-attack action. When doing so, he may make on additional attack, taking a -2 penalty on all of his attack rolls, as if using the Two-Weapon Fighting feat. These attacks can be any combination of unarmed strikes and attacks with a monk special weapon (he does not need to use two weapons to use this ability). For the purpose of these attacks, the monk's base attack bonus from his monk class levels is equal to his monk level. For all other purposes, such as qualifying for a feat or a prestige class, the monk uses his normal base attack bonus.
Considering how Sacred Weapon is based off of Monk, until official clarification, I'd default to Flurry of Blows rules. Monks can't make the argument that they could use a feat only while using FoB, so Warpriests can't claim that the feat only works while using their Sacred Weapon.
Personally I find it interesting that language in Flurry of Blows specifically stops monks from using flurry of blows to qualify for feats, and similar language is not present in the Sacred Weapon text block.
That said, it could very well be a case of playtest language.
Whenever the warpriest is wielding a sacred weapon, he treats his warpriest level as his base attack bonus for attacks made with that weapon, stacking with any base attack bonus from other classes or racial Hit Dice.
Create Mr. Pitt: You get a different BAB with some weapons. For feats using that weapon it would seem to be plain english that your bab is your level. I'm looking at BAB and using plain english coming to the conclusion that it's used for attacking. Sacred weapons is just narrowing that down. BAB is for "attacks with a weapon" so replacing 'a' with 'that' doesn't alter it's meaning other that what weapon you use.
Arachnofiend: It only works on a small number of weapons. IMO THAT'S why it doesn't have a full BAB.
PRD: "Base Attack Bonus (BAB): Each creature has a base attack bonus and it represents its skill in combat."
As to "attacks with that weapon", isn't someone doing that when they use Greater Disarm or Greater Trip with that weapon? Aren't they attacking with it when they use Whirlwind Attack? You feats that you attack with...
Also http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9o72 For feats, monks use their flurry BAB for figuring out feat effects.
And http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mi13&page=7?One-Synthesist-Summoner-Thread -to-rule-them-all#341 Temp bonuses like +2 belts, Synthesist physical stats, ect allow you to take feats that require a physical stat you don't have normally. I don't see how the BAB from this classes sacred weapon is any different.
You can't take a feat whose prereqs you only meet in certain situations. Until his BAB is actually +6, he can't take feats that require +6.
Seems as this is the most clear cut and concise response. I believe Feats requirements as well as Prestige class requirements on BAB is based on class BAB progression.
Though i do wonder if they'll add some better wording or clarification to the final product release?
I'll try this again. When and how bonuses apply with weapons is straight forward. Bab is just a number in a math formula that asks some questions.
I am a warpeiest of forum 18 str at lvl 6 (bab+4) I have a +1 greatsword and power attack.
I decide to attack with a longsword. +4 str +4 bab For +8 to hit 1d8 +6 2h. If I use pa its -2/+6.
I attack with a greatsword +6 bab +4 str +1 enh +11 to hit 2d6+6 damage. Pa is the same.
Wielding a greatsword I try tobbullrush what are .y bonuses? +4 bab +4 str +8 to cmb. Why? Because I have no special ability saying g a greatsword can be used in a bullrush.
However if he tried trip disarm or sunder allbhis cmb are calculated using the greatsword.
He doesn't at any point even temporarily qualify for greater bullrush.
Mojorat: I don't know if you are talking to me Mojorat but I agree with you. the increased BAB would HAVE to be used for a feat the weapon(s) is usable in.
ezrider23: "You can't take a feat whose prereqs you only meet in certain situations" If you look at the thread I posted about, on the question of using temp bonuses it was said that they DO count for prereqs. For me, it'd seem that the sacred weapon bonus would count for prereqs until there is some "some better wording or clarification".
I attack with a greatsword +6 bab +4 str +1 enh +11/+6 to hit 2d6+6 damage.Small nitpick. The extra BAB from Sacred Weapon grants iteratives.
I'm on my phone and prone to typo trying to reduce in needed typing with fat fingers.
@greystone in all honesty I think the extra babbonly ever matters for attacking or effects that change while attacking.
But I'm also of the opinion druids don't qualify for weapon focus claw..
Mojorat: I don't know if you are talking to me Mojorat but I agree with you. the increased BAB would HAVE to be used for a feat the weapon(s) is usable in.
ezrider23: "You can't take a feat whose prereqs you only meet in certain situations" If you look at the thread I posted about, on the question of using temp bonuses it was said that they DO count for prereqs. For me, it'd seem that the sacred weapon bonus would count for prereqs until there is some "some better wording or clarification".
It would seem so.
@greystone in all honesty I think the extra babbonly ever matters for attacking or effects that change while attacking.But I'm also of the opinion druids don't qualify for weapon focus claw..
For me, effects would cover it. Look at 1/2 elf and what the elf blood power says. They look at the FAQ.
"Elf Blood: Half-elves count as both elves and humans for any effect related to race."
"Half-Elf or Half-Orc: Can a character of either of these races select human racial archetypes (such as from Advanced Race Guide?
Yes. Half-elves and half-orcs may select racial favored class options, archetypes, traits, and so on, as if they were a full member of both races"
Effects covers "favored class options, archetypes, traits, and so on". I'd call a BAB that works all the time for that weapon an effect on attacks...