Touch attack is a light weapon

[reyyvin]

I've recently come across many threads discussing whether or not a melee touch attack counts as a light weapon for purposes of weapon finesse. Unarmed Strikes and natural weapons are both specifically included, but there is no mention of melee touch attacks.

I searched the SRD (and verified when possible with the PRD) for "melee touch" and "weapon finesse." Every creature I found that possessed both (listed below) used their dexterity for hit bonus.

Would this not represent a de facto ruling by Paizo that a melee touch attack is usable with the Weapon Finesse feat?

Can anyone provide a Paizo published monster sample that has weapon finesse and doesn't use their dex to attack with weapon finesse? Are there other examples of monsters with Finessed touch attacks?(I may have missed something)

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/stirge.html#_stirge

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/additionalMonsters/vampiricMist.html#_va mpiric-mist (note, this is an Aberration with strength of "-")

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/additionalMonsters/mosquito.html#_mosqui to,-giant

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/additionalMonsters/shiningChild.html#_sh ining-child

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/additionalMonsters/nereid.html#_nereid (assuming her melee touch is a secondary attack; if not, no formula works)

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/willOWisp.html#_will-o-wisp (assuming their touch is a secondary attack; if not, no formula works)

plus, here are a couple in the SRD from various Paizo publications:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/unique-monsters/cr-10/lamia-matriarch-rogu e-2 (assuming her touch is a Secondary Attack; if not, no formula works) (Hook Mountain Massacre)

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/npc-s/npc-18/blood-lord-human-lich-aristoc rat-4-necromancer-13 (NPC Codex)

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/oozes/colour-out-of-space (assuming their touch is a Secondary Attack; if not, no formula works) (bestiary 4)

Plus, incorporeal undead use their dex instead of strength (which is "-") for their touch attacks

There is also the rusalka with staggering touch; the power says the rusalka must touch the target, but does not specifically call it a melee touch attack in the stat block

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/bestiary3/rusalka.html#_rusalka

**Edit** for those creatures listed with a high BAB, they don't get iterative attacks, which makes me think their touch attacks qualify as "natural weapons." thoughts?

[SlimGauge]

It has been argued that touch attacks (not being delivered as unarmed strikes or natural attacks) don't get iteratives, but I'm not sure of all the arguments.

[blahpers]

Pretty much the same argument--evidence from the Bestiary shows that monsters with BAB +5 or higher don't get iterative touch attacks (e.g., spectre)

[Remy Balster]

blahpers wrote:

Pretty much the same argument--evidence from the Bestiary shows that monsters with BAB +5 or higher don't get iterative touch attacks (e.g., spectre)

My suspicion is that that is a slam attack. But, like, an incorporeal version of one.

[Remy Balster]

Hrm... maybe not. I've looked into it more, and everything with touch attacks seem to only get the one per round. I wonder if they are being treated as natural attacks though? That seems the only reason for it...

[graystone]

Yeah, I'd agree. Those examples, like the spectre, are most likely using natural weapon-like touch attacks.

[James Risner]

Remy Balster wrote:

That seems the only reason for it...

It has to, because it isn't a manufactured weapon (Unarmed Strike is in manufactured list) so it can't get BAB-5/BAB-10/BAB-15 etc.