Dark Immortal |
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Aasimar Plumekith Scion of Humanity.
Monk 6(Qinggong, Sensei, Ki Mystic), Fighter 2(Unarmed Fighter), Inquisitor 1(Heretic), Cleric 1, Rogue 1(poisoner).
God: Moloch (or Pharasma).
Str: 7
Dex: 20
Con: 14
Int: 11
Wis: 24
Cha: 7
Fort: +14
Ref:+12
Will:19
Feats
1. Racial Heritage: Gnome, Combat Reflexes (Monk).
3. Bewildering Koan, Mantis Style (Fighter).
5. Enforcer.
7. Mantis Wisdom, Scorpion Style (Fighter).
9. Lunge.
11. Adder Strike.
12/13. Punishing Kick or Touch of Serenity.
Primary Skills
Intimidate +22
Bluff +21
Knowledge's +14
Perception +21
Stealth +26
Sense Motive +22
Traits:
Masterful Demeanor, Candidate for Perfection.
Spells: Pro Evil, Bless.
Qinggong Powers: Barkskin, Feather Step (or True Strike).
Domains & Inquisitions: Tactics, Devil, Heresy.
Dirty Touches
Hells Corruption: -2 to all saves, makes opposed skill checks twice and take worse result. No save.
Enforcer: When dealing subdual damage free action demoralize for shaken condition (-2 on attacks, saves and skill checks).
Stunning Fist: When hit, fort save or lose next action, drop anything held, -2 ac, lose Dex bonus, all CMB is at +4.
Adder Strike: Any applicable poison. Most dc's are 14-16. All are fort saves.
Scorpion Style: Standard action attack. Fort save or movement reduced to 5' for 7 rounds.
Can reroll Initiative for one person per combat, every combat.
Low Bab but and normal +13 to hit. Can be higher by shifting class levels and/or magic items.
Phenomenal ac.
Very good saves without save boosters (no cloak of resistance).
Needs one more level of monk to give +2 from performance. :/
Can stuff off touch attacks if needed.
Can choose to make touch attacks with hells corruption.
Can convert injury poisons to contact with poisoner archetype class feature and apply poison on touch attacks.
Deals no damage (but isn't supposed to). Can get agile aomf to deal +7 DMG per hit if funds allow. Aomf is Conductive by default.
Wears body wraps of mighty striking for situational attack and DMG bonus.
Bewildering Koan can be done every round due to stupidly large ki pools. Ninja 2 was tempting for access to a third pool with nice options and ninja tricks. But alas.
This is a rough draft. The character above should be proof that dealing damage is not required to tank. While it is by no means as refined as it could be, I wonder what could/should be done differently to make it better.
The primary goal is to lockdown of one or two enemies on my turn, possibly more on the enemies turn by forcing so many saves per hit (and bewildering koan) that I cannot be ignored or I must be avoided at all costs. Switching levels around, dropping some entirely can all work by providing other perks (like one more level in inquisitor means initiative jumps by 7).
I feel like the build/idea is missing some glaring obvious point. Gear is built in (Dex belt and +4 Wis headband is all). So everything else is open to cover the gaps. Regardless, nearly naked, a character that looks like this sounds pretty strong to me since each piece of gear just makes it better.
Lastly, I really wanted Pharasma for the Repose Domain so I could wreck enemies with staggered. But pfs rules prevent me from going nuts. As it is, I managed to cram 3 domains and converted one to an inquisition. Pharasmas domains aren't good enough (even death) to warrant taking her for the concept. The character build is an even mix of supportive and offensive.
Stun dc's are DC 24.
Dark Immortal |
Looks like you only get one or two domains instead of three. So that may change the worth of the cleric or Inquisitor class. I doubt that taking both will remain worthwhile. Inquisitor without an inquisition may be the better choice and sticking with the Heretic archetype may be the best way to keep the skill checks reasonable (stealth and bluff). Will need some way to fix intimidates substantially lowered bonus, though. It is looking like it is +13 only. What other options are available for use in every combat?
Even with just one domain, I am thinking that Moloch is the better choice over Pharasma here. Staggered is incredibly useful, especially with scorpion style, but Hell's Corruption has its own merits. A successful hit followed by a demoralize means -4 to all saves on a DC 24 stun and Scorpion Strike and then the lower DC poisons.
Dark Immortal |
Wow, no responses. I thought for sure the optimizers who say tanking can only be done by having good dps would have chimes in by now.
Anyway, looks like for PFS I am
Stuck choosing pharasma and just taking the repose domain and ditching cleric levels or taking cleric (or cleric and inquisitor) and grabbing tactics and devil domain for Moloch.
But Hell's corruption is not quite as powerful as gentle rest.
The lunge feat has to go. What should it be replaced with?
Michael Sayre |
You can't be Qinggong, Sensei, Ki Mystic all together.
Diamond Body, Diamond Soul and Empty Body are both qingong and ki mystic.
Double check your FAQs my friend, Qinggong stacks with everything.
Sensei monk tank isn't really a "new" thing, I posted a similar build in a monk v. fighter tanks thread a while back and showed how the Sensei had amazingly good odds of shutting down a CR+2 enemy...
Never mind, I see you were there!
Dark Immortal |
@Sammy Very true. I fully intend to invest in the skill. Linguistics is quite important to being able to ask the boss, 'Will your answer to this question be no?'
@Dennis His character absolutely requires a team to function. Without allies who can deal damage or force terrible save or suck effects, he is only a 'really' annoying roadblock.
@Ssalarn yeah, I followed that topic and your post gave me some ideas that I had not considered. I wanted to force as many saving throws as possible on a single attack (status effects are good enough, though). So far I feel that I am on the right track with a very solid chassis, even if I mitigate some of the dips.
Lingering performance, extra performance and domain strike seem like valid feat options at this point, though domain strike is a swift action and without a 7th level in monk the performance bonuses don't go past +1. Is there something better with what I am trying to do? Maybe Extra Ki or Combat Style Master (allowing combat to start with the character already in a style).
I am looking to streamline it here while finding a good balance between support and 'shutdown'. If I can scrap a class, even better.
TGMaxMaxer |
Biggest problem I see is the +4 to hit at 11th level (4 monk, 2 fighter, -2 str). Unless you plan on hitting a total of twice a day (from True Strike), you need another build.
You have to hit with an unarmed strike for the Stunning Fist, and the Scorpion Style to trigger.
Scorpion Style takes a standard, so you can't just FoB and hope something hits.
Poison has to actually do damage from the attack to trigger.
revaar |
Biggest problem I see is the +4 to hit at 11th level (4 monk, 2 fighter, -2 str). Unless you plan on hitting a total of twice a day (from True Strike), you need another build.
You have to hit with an unarmed strike for the Stunning Fist, and the Scorpion Style to trigger.
Scorpion Style takes a standard, so you can't just FoB and hope something hits.
Poison has to actually do damage from the attack to trigger.
He's actually ay +14, if my math is correct. 4 monk + 2 fighter + 7 Wis (sensei) +1 size (gnome)
Gregory Connolly |
At 11th level most monsters you fight have between 24 and 29 AC, your +14 to hit is a 50/50 shot against mooks and is a 25/75 hit/miss ratio with bosses, not high enough. You character will be ignored and your allies will suffer. Antagonize would help you aggro monsters and actually tank, you even have the intimidate to use it already.
Dark Immortal |
The base race is aasimar, so no bonus to hit an ac from being small except in a home game. :(
Attack bonus is +13, and without adjusting class levels, it is safe to assume he'll have another +1 from advice for +14 which means he is hitting level appropriate foes on average rolls.
I have not done the gear yet but I believe he'll be using the bodywrap of mighty strikes +2. However, with the low Bab, it is only once per round until too late, so I might need to address that.
@TG Sensei's do not get fob, so scorpion style is fine because I have one (eventually 2) attack a round.
This leaves us trying to get more Bab to make bodywraps worth while and as early as possible which leads me to believe that we should go with cleric or Inquisitor and not both and to take a closer look at the rogue/poisoner archetype and see if there is something better we could do there.
First, we don't have to use poison (but it is flavorful, fits the theme, and looks fun). We really don't care how we make the enemy save as long as we can sling out more saves per round than a d20 can keep up with. If we exclude poisoner, ninja and alchemist, we can drop adder strike and free 2 feats. Someone already suggested antagonize, which at this point sounds trolley and fun but it's a standard action so meh. Still, antagonize, koan, aoo god debuff/stun...good times.
We could also grab another level of inquisitor to largely boost initiative, another level of monk for more performance bonuses and each would add +1 Bab and other class features.
Monk 7, inquisitor 2, fighter 2 = Bab+8 +7 (wisdom) = +15. Performance bonus = +2, so +17. Bodywrap gives +2 twice a round so +19 and Ki mystics can spend Ki to add +4 to any skill or ability check, which includes attack roles if I am not mistaken. Hitting should not be a problem. Then, if inquisitor was chosen there is the judgement for another bonus +1 to hit. Also, gentle rest and hells corruption are no save melee touch attacks normally and I can still elect to use them as such. True strike is more for supporting the team or epic enemies qith stupid ac. Furthermore, stunning fist only requires an attack role, so it can be used with either one of these abilities to deliver touch attack stuns. Also, because the Bab increased enough, it means that we would have room for punishing kick or touch of serenity in the later levels for another save, this replaces poison fine, but poisons were looking kind of cool and fun and had a lot of potential with this build, but taking rogue/ninja/alchemist makes this less streamlined than I would prefer so it is kind of acceptable, though I am remiss.
The overall build is looking good to me so far.
Sammy T |
TGMaxMaxer, that's before AoMF or BoMS, so we could spot him a few points in his favor.
While an interesting theorycraft, my concerns would be:
You need to hit to trigger your abilities. Obviously for Bewildering Koan or touch attacks, not an issue, but for Stunning Fist or straight up DPS, you may struggle on non-mook creatures.
Your build possibly extends fights. While you can lockdown/cc creatures, if they make their save(s), you've done only very minor damage to them (as compared to a Raging Barbarian or Fighter with Dazing Attack that fills the same role at L11+)--and if the creature has DR as they often do at tier 7-11 and beyond, then you've quite possibly done no damage. The longer the fight, the more resources your party members have to expend (spells, rage rounds, inspire courage, etc)...which will snowball over the course of the standard 4-5 encounters of a PFS scenario.
In an ideal world, you're Bewildering one mob and Stunning Fisting another while the party focus fires things down in short order. I don't know how much PFS experience you have, but two things to keep very much in mind: 1) Every table of PFS you play will vary greatly in their tactical ability and combat efficacy. At one table you may considered the prime DPS while at another every decides to attack different targets without rhyme or reason. 2) Even if you have a regular group that can semi-coordinate tactics, the concerns mentioned by other posters stand.
I personally would probably drop cleric/rogue, keep one level of inquisitor to leverage your WIS via an inquisition and put the other levels in monk. Regardless, I'm all for giving it a shot as is just so you can come back in a year and give us the after action report!
Dark Immortal |
TGMaxMaxer, that's before AoMF or BoMS, so we could spot him a few points in his favor.
Yes. The character also is a cleric or inquisitor so they have spells such as bless and abilities like advice to further boost to hit if necessary, for them and the party.
While an interesting theorycraft, my concerns would be:You need to hit to trigger your abilities. Obviously for Bewildering Koan or touch attacks, not an issue, but for Stunning Fist or straight up DPS, you may struggle on non-mook creatures.
I was somewhat concerned by that as well. However the rough draft and refined build had a Bab of +6 and +8, respectively. With a +7 bonus from wisdom that is a +13 - +15 before bodywraps (+2) or judgment, or spells or performance via advice. Bodywraps and advice should always be factored in providing a passive +4 on top of each. +19 sounds like he hits cr+5 dragon ac dragon ac on the roll of 11 before using spells or judgements or applying debuffs. I think these numbers and options are very acceptable since anything of boss calibir cr has a substantially lower ac and requires less to hit, though maybe I am thinking of the wrong ac for that cr range.
Your build possibly extends fights. While you can lockdown/cc creatures, if they make their save(s), you've done only very minor damage to them (as compared to a Raging Barbarian or Fighter with Dazing Attack that fills the same role at L11+)--and if the creature has DR as they often do at tier 7-11 and beyond, then you've quite possibly done no damage. The longer the fight, the more resources your party members have to expend (spells, rage rounds, inspire courage, etc)...which will snowball over the course of the standard 4-5 encounters of a PFS scenario.
He definitely can make fights longer by not dealing damage. However, he can completely shut down multiple enemies simultaneously rendering them useless. He can apply an assortment of penalties ranging from substantially inconvenient to grievously unfair if used on appropriate targets: staggering monsters, stunning arcane casters, slowing melee opponents to five foot steps for entire combats, etc. The additional time a fight may last due to these effects over damage seems fair. These abilities are all limited in use per day due to their power when they work. A stun is almost like having incapacitated an enemy for that round. They are out of the fight. A monster with many natural attacks being reduced to a standard action or a move action is a far cry from the threat it once was. A melee character who can move only five feet a round for 7 rounds and all enemies are more than 10 feet away (and make it a point to stay that way) is not going to be the combat machine he could have been. Also, don't forget that the character can opt to force ally rerolls instead of moaning, and can share things like barkskin, true strike and the bardic abilities from the sensors advice (which boosts everyone's damage and accuracy). In whatever way he is not contributing through damage, he should be making up for by penalizing enemies and buffing allies to make up the difference [b]and[/] by completely removing certain threats from combat until the party is ready to deal with them.
Don't forget that he could also give a single ally at a time the benefit of any class feature that requires Ki to activate (like the dodge bonus to ac). But I am not exactly sure on how that is activated, either whole using advice normally or as a separate activation or what.
In an ideal world, you're Bewildering one mob and Stunning Fisting another while the party focus fires things down in short order. I don't know how much PFS experience you have, but two things to keep very much in mind: 1) Every table of PFS you play will vary greatly in their tactical ability and combat efficacy. At one table you may considered the prime DPS while at another every decides to attack different targets without rhyme or reason. 2) Even if you have a regular group that can semi-coordinate tactics, the concerns mentioned by other posters stand.
1.) Tell me about it. This is something that annoys me greatly. Many players simply do not care and want to rush through when it clearly is to the benefit of everyone, including themselves, to get organized. I have played a lot of PFS and you are preaching to the choir. I can count on one hand how many times organizers tactics were used in any of the 1+ years of society games I have played. I truly enjoyed those four times when I was involved. Still, if/when people decide to do their chaotic leaps of faith into a given situation, this character fully intends to sit back and play support instead of tank and reserve his limited but considerable powers to getting out alive.
2.) And this looks great on 'paper' so the real question is how does it really work? So I don't mind trying it out. Just got to refine it so that it has the best chance to give quality information on it's utility and practicality.
I personally would probably drop cleric/rogue, keep one level of inquisitor to leverage your WIS via an inquisition and put the other levels in monk. Regardless, I'm all for giving it a shot as is just so you can come back in a year and give us the after action report!
Well, I had to rebuild a monk due to rules issues and this would be starting at 6th level. So doubtful it would take a year but I definitely plan to provide an update on the performance abilities once I get an opportunity to play him and have him figured out.
Monk 8, fighter 2 and inquisitor 1? Does the 8th level of monk help much at that point besides allowing him to take an 8th level qinggong power over wholeness of body? And I assume that qinggong selects all abilities it loses first, then acquires those abilities at the level it swapped a power for- since not all class features match the levels you can trade for them, I assume it is possible to buy high level powers in low level slots but not get access to those powers intil you're high level.
@gregory, you're probably right.
Dark Immortal |
God, that last post was so riddled with typos that I am embarrassed to have my name attached to it.
Anyway, not sure if it has already been said or if I was clear before but there are a few combo's and considerations worth mentioning.
A.) Stunning Fist does not specify an attack type meaning that it can work for touch attacks that are unarmed. The only catch is that damage must be dealt. This means that Gentle Rest can be used to deliver a stunning fist (you just have to deal at least 1 point of damage with it somehow).
B.) Touch of Serenity, like stunning fist only requires an attack roll (not even an unarmed one) and can be made into a touch attack with Gentle Rest. Touch of Serenity does not need to deal damage to trigger, only hit.
C.) Any magic items that can boost our intimidate or Bluff skills would be really solid. I did not find any in my books but consistently good chancs for making the skill checks seems important.
a quick breakdown
Gentle Rest: no save touch atk to stagger. Max 10x/day(5 with conductive).
Enforcer: -2 on atk, skills, ability checks and saves. Must use subdual.
Scorpion Style: DC 22 fort, 5' movement for 7 rounds. Standard action.
Stunning Fist: DC 24 fort, stun target. +2 to hit. Max ~ 8x/day.
Touch of Serenity: DC 22 Will, no spellcasting or offensve actions. Max 7x/day.
Bewildering Koan: lockdown target with bluff. Max ~ 12x/day.
Advice (Bardic Performance): Max 14 rnds/day.
Mystic Wisdom: 14x/day? (not clear on how this works exactly).
Mystic Insight: Immediate action force ally to reroll. Max ~ 6x/day.
Bab: +8, (+15 after wisdom and no other modifiers).
Hp+:9d8+2d10+22 (89 with favored class bonuses)
Saves: fort +13, ref +10, will +18
Armor class: 23 (just from level and stats).
Key gear:
cruel +1 bodywraps (can now apply sickened on hit).
Deliquescent Gloves (so that stunning fist can trigger from gentle rest).
Not as many saving throws as I would like, personally. The only way to optimize this more seems to be by dropping mantis wisdom (+2 to hit with stunning fist) and possibly mantis style and combat style master to squeeze in the wolf style chain. But we're not built to trip or deal damage (but we could) so hmm. I want more save effects. :/
Dark Immortal |
I actually tried putting this together and came to the same realization, stool. Here is a snippet of what I sent to a pfs gm for verification of the build:
Classes: Monk 7 (Sensei/Ki Mystic/Qinggong), Inquisitor 2(Heretic), Fighter 2 (Unarmed Fighter).
Domain: Repose or Law (Devil sub domain).
God: Pharasma or Moloch.
Feats:
Monk (1-3), Inquisitor (4), Fighter (5-6), Monk (7-10), Inquisitor (11).
1.)Racial Heritage: Gnome, Combat Reflexes (Monk).
3.)Bewildering Koan
5.)Enforcer, Mantis Style (Fighter).
6.)Scorpion Style (Fighter).
7.)Mantis Wisdom
9.)Combat Style Master? Improved Initiative? Domain strike?
11.)Touch of Serenity
You basically have to take the first three levels as a sensei/Ki mystic to get the Ki pool.
@ipslore, level 1 is the most difficult. You stand around and um, budget those five rounds of bardic performance. Your primary contribution to the party are those five rounds of performance and skill checks-probably knowledge, as well as being fairly hard to hit at level 1.
At second level you get some leeway in that you can now hit but your damage is still terrible. However, six rounds of performance and two stuns a day allow you to contribute during a total of three fights. We could just use a shortbow, though and leave DPs to the specialists. We plan to anyway.
Level 3 is where the build comes online a little and you can actively contibute to combat beyond inspire courage and extremely limited numbers of stunning fists. You've got 3 stuns a day, 7 rounds of inspire and 4 koans and a shortbow.
At fourth level you 'explode' and take a level of inquisitor or separatist cleric. You now have a minimum of 8 uses of your domain power per day or 4 if you purchase a conductive amulet. With cash for magic gear you have a lot of additional options on just what you want to do based on need. You also have spells now.
By fifth level you have enough of the feat base to legitimately tank in about half to 2/3 of all the combats while simultaneously supporting the party. You can also forgo the fighter levels until later to accelerate the bardic performance features and Ki pool and Ki mystic options and stunning fists, making you much more effective at support, especially with the qinggong abilities.
In short, there are really no explosive levels with this build beyond hitting 4 where you can actually do something every combat. However, you do grow into every ability quite easily after 3. If you see a better leveling progression that allows for faster tanking, great! Let's see it. The list above is really strong in the mid to late game, sadly.
Finally, I can't tell if it is worth going separatist cleric 1 and inquisitor 1 and losing the point of Bab (and also one attack with the bodywraps) or sticking with just inquisitor. Separatist cleric opens up tons of options and the tactics, growth, trickery, Devil and torture domains are all good. Tactics helps everybody quite a lot, growth makes combat reflexes actually useful, trickery is more defense and tactical movement (plus it looks dang cool), and torture increases my damage output substantially-especially if my amulet is agile (which it will be) and devil gives me the goodness of hells corruption.
Dark Immortal |
Good news! I will get to play this character starting tomorrow although there have been some changes.
Starting stats will be:
7, 15 (+2), 14, 13, 17 (+2), 7
Traits: Extremely Fashionable & Maestro or Honored Fist of the Society.
Level progression (he starts at 6) is:
1.) Monk. Racial Heritage: Gnome. Scorpion Style.
2.) Monk. Insightful Strike.
3.) Monk. Bewildering Koan. Ki Mystic Pool.
4.) Clrc. Domains-Repose & Devil (Law).
5.) Fgtr. Enforcer. Mantis Style.
6.) Fgtr. Domain Strike: Gentle Rest. Combat Expertise.
Planning Monk and Mantis Wisdom at 7, granting him barkskin from Qinggong, and Inquisitor at 8 to make the enforcer feat actually work reliably instead of as an occasional bonus.
He will worship Moloch (since the character he is rebuilding from did) and the archetypes remain unchanged save for the cleric is a separatist (which is how he can access repose and devil) and the fighter archetype of unarmed fighter was changed to Lorewarden.
I didn't see any better combinations of domain powers or feats or archetypes so barring a better/cooler suggestion before tomorrow morning, this is what I will go with.
Felidaeus01 |
I've been playing a character like this for PFS and it has been working out EXTREMELY well.
I have a similar character:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qjwu?Splinter-the-Super-Squirrel-Familiar-help #1
The familiar is optional, but helps with action economy.
One thing that makes all the difference though: get bodyguard and the helpful trait. You will love it, your allies will love it, and it practically DEFINES a tank.
This character is PAINFUL to play for exactly one level. First level. If you have combat reflexes and bodyguard, you start with a 50/50 chance to succeed on the aid another check. After that? It doesn't matter what you do. Giving your allies a +4 to AC as an opportunity attack, with a +1 to attack and damage for sensei, and a +4 to attacks as your standard means that you could sit on your thumbs for the rest of the turn and they wouldn't care, because you just guaranteed that the barbarian got a hit in AND took no damage.
People will look at this and say: you are pretty useless without a party, and you kind of are, but who cares? A character like this is multiplicative, which is strictly better than additive once you have 3 other people. Besides, DnD is ABOUT the party, which can be easy to forget.
ProfPotts |
An idea for characters who worry about having no way to contribute in combat at early levels: buy a net. Don't bother with the EWP (it's a touch attack) or trying to control the rope or anything - at the very least, if that touch attack hits, the enemy will waste a full round getting out if the thing (or fight on at significant penalties). Worth 20gp if you've nothing more urgent to spend it on.
Poisoned sand tube is another option: it doesn't even require an attack roll, so proficiency in it is meaningless. Even without poison it's a 15ft cone DC 12 Dazzle effect... rubbish, yes, but better than a turn of doing nothing, for the budget cost of 1gp.
A dragon pistol with dragon's breath cartridges is in a similar boat, but by the time you can afford one you'll hopefully have better things to do.
Otherwise... buy some alchemical stuff to lob: always fun at low levels! :)
Master_Crafter |
I created a Sundering character for similar reasons in our groups current campaign. An inquisitor with high intimidate who regularly uses the frostbite spell to deal nonlethal dmg, he cleaves through most equipment effortlessly with an adamantine maul, dealing excess dmg to the welders (great sunder), depriving them of their equipment bonuses, and sending them running in terror after a few hits (enforcer). He can also send his foes flying if he chooses, or on a critical hit, and they take AoOs if he does so (greater bull rush and bull rush strike).
Not quite the same status infliction that you seem to be heading this towards, but an absolute blast play. Ends up with most off the agro, tho. Apparently people don't like it when you break their stuff. :)
Dark Immortal |
@Felidaeous, This character was built to disprove the incredibly annoying and obviously incorrect argument (particularly on these boards) that in order to tank, you have to deal damage. That is a flat out lie/misconception. This character is physical proof. You can tank and deal exactly 0 damage (or 1) for the entire round and shut down the enemy through melee combat while making yourself hard to hit like a tank.
I already made a character named Cadigan. He is around these boards somewhere. He has a stupidly high ac and uses the bodyguard line of feats, helpful trait and archon style feat chain. This is all combined with crane style. The only way to kill or even harm an adjacent ally is to use magic because Cardigan makes allies very difficult to hit, and when they are hit, he can either take it himself or redirect it to himself (and give every ally an aoo for the enemy missing). He is the monk that GM's dislike because he is immune to being moved, forces monsters to only hit on crits, negates the crits that do happen, negates the crits on allies, etc, etc. He was forced into retirement because crane wing was Errata's to not be a particularly useful feat. He can no longer survive the sheer amount of attacks he receives since I have not found a feat to perform a similar function.
@Master Crafter, it sounds interesting and fun. Quite thematic. Sadly, this guy has yet to shine because everything he has fought has been immune to his afflictions (immune to fort saves entirely and can't be communicated with, with?) Flesh golems, incorporeal undead, you name it. I have faced a single enemy that I could force to make a save against my special attacks. Most were immune to nonlethal damage, you get the idea. I ended up playing support and bewildering koan made GM's rather irritated. They hid their irritation but I could tell. One gm asked us if we wanted to just skip the fight after my second question of doom. He was right, of course. With no ability to do anything to stop us, the boss monster did keel over and die horribly to the group wailing on him freely as I gave advice on how to do it.
Since the character is behind on wbl, the effectiveness is severely limited (no magic weapon, low ac, etc). So the experience is not as true to optimal as the paper form suggests.
In about 12k gp he should be solid.
Dark Immortal |
With the advent of the ACG, has this concept improved? Lots of love was given to the very ideas this monk is built around.
New feats: The new feats are wonderful, allowing us to stagger, fatigue, shaken, confuse and paralyze. They can be used on primary, secondary and iterative attacks so if your stunning fist misses or they save, your next attack can be a disorienting blow. The downside is that the new feats don't favor monks or brawler really so uses per day remain capped at 2-3.
Blessings: The blessing feature may be watered down domains, but the access to them is easy (there is even a feat for it) and the duration of blessings last for a minute in many cases. Unfortunately, a quick skim of the available options didn't reveal anything better than what we already have. In addition, there are fewer uses per day and the variety is limited compared to domains and sub domains.
New Classes: The Brawler looks like a stellar replacement for the Lorewarden in this build, though combat expertise will be missed. We get the same number of skill points per level and lose two feats but we gain martial flexibility 4 times a day (so 4 feats when we need them) as well as an improved reflex save which is our weakest save and a single bonus feat as well as two weapon fighting which makes up for our lack of flurry quite nicely. Archetypes that may help- Exemplar.
There is the war priest. Two levels grants fervor and while our monk is swift action starved, a self buff spell 10x per day or swift action heal (although not for much) is a pretty good deal, I think. Add in the blessings as an added bonus on top of our domains, followed by the weapon focus feat (totally unnecessary but still nice) and we have some decent toys. However, none of them feel particularly yummy or potent. It's the combination that seems to give it any real strength for our needs. The sacred fist may have something to offer but a quick view didn't really reveal anything.
In conclusion I surmise that to really benefit from these options maybe a rebuild is in order. How would a sacred fist/exemplar look compared to our sensei/cleric/lorewarden (retrained to brawler)?
Personally, I suspect that swapping brawler for fighter is the best course of action.