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Mark, that's probably true for a low level character who's never experienced wealth, but after a few levels that novelty should wear off. He's already rich. It would be like Bill Gates stopping to pick up a penny off the street.Remember your Beverly Hillbillies: they had a concrete pond, not a swimming pool. My point is it's hard to take the common out of the man. Can't the reverse also be true? Yeah, I'm 10th level, but that just means it's easier for me to pry this brasswork off the wall without damaging it.
Maybe. But the time spent scavenging and selling the brasswork is time you aren't enjoying your other wealth, and time you're not moving on to the next tomb to rob. Isn't the point of being rich that you don't have to be a dirt farmer anymore?
The analog for the 'strip the fixtures' dungeon looter would probably be something like keeping an inventory of the dungeons visited and the items that could be hauled out of them if they ever need an extra few hundred gold pieces.
More to the point, past the first few levels, there is usually a better motivation for adventuring than wealth. For instance, the adventure hook for Age of Worms really is that someone has brought together a band of adventurers to rob a tomb. If they want to rip out the frescoes to sell to the British Greyhawk Museum, that kind of makes sense. But after that, it is assumed that they are pursuing a trail of sinister clues.
Most of the modern Paizo APs also have starting points that assume slightly different character motivations. RotRL just assumes you're interested in protecting the innocent. CotCT is about revenge, not wealth.
So you're saying EVERY one loves RP or fighting? You sure you aren't saying what YOU like? I know several people that would be bored to tears with 6 hours of straight RP without a fight or just fight after fight. Seems kind of off to me to say that what a couple of people find fun should be ignored because you don't like it.Wow, are you ever good at reading exactly what you like into what people write. Look at my post, I don't say anything like that.
I said that if you and your group enjoy endless bartering and haggling then you should do that. I said that I want "My" games to focus on things that we (the people I play with) all enjoy. All of us like RP, and all of my group love combat. So it makes more sense that our games focus on those things rather than parts that only a couple players enjoy. I think that every group should try to focus on parts of the game that everyone enjoys and takes part in. The parts of the game that only one or two players are interested in should be given only limited amounts of time, or just removed entirely.
I'm pretty sure I read exactly what you wrote. You said "I, on the other hand, will tell players in games that I GM that "there is no real market for cartolads of junk, and if there was I would just give you less real treasure if you insist of carrying it back"" so "the game can focus on the parts that everyone enjoys, not parts that only a couple people enjoy." Why would you have to say the first if everyone is on the same page and bored with looting? I was pointing out that not everyone enjoys a game that 'hogs' the time for just one aspect. Rp, fighting or looting. You seem to want to 'hog' the time away from the looting to do things you like even though "a couple players" may want to do something else.
I've just replied to what you actually wrote, not 'what I like'. It was you yourself that said "a couple players" enjoyed looting then went on to tell how you'd make sure they couldn't enjoy it ("trips to the Pathfinder Pawnshop") so you could do something you enjoyed. If you meant something different from that, I couldn't tell from what was posted.
Byersly: your aside is kind of my point. I've met looter players, then I've met LOOTER players. I concede to you that, for MOST players extreme looting loses its appeal after about level 3-5, but for a select few its ingrained; "pathological, not rational" as you say.
There are a couple players I've gamed with over the years that had this compulsion. One guy did the math to figure out how to Shrink Item an entire wizard's house because it had enchantments on the very walls/roof that he wanted. Why didn't he just pay the same amount to have his own, similar structure made? It's not rational...
I know this whole thread's a bit tongue-in-cheek and I agree with you Rossinator, but there's always that ONE guy. In my case it's been two. In point of fact, this next campaign coming up I toyed with the idea of a wizard who, in his spare time, obsessively uses Make Whole and Mending on dungeons he's visited, to restore these places to their former glory and potentially recoup money as a result.
Byersly: your aside is kind of my point. I've met looter players, then I've met LOOTER players. I concede to you that, for MOST players extreme looting loses its appeal after about level 3-5, but for a select few its ingrained; "pathological, not rational" as you say.
Right, but if your player is pathological, then there might not be much you can do to retrain them. A rational person can be swayed with carrots (if you don't loot the fixtures I can add more treasure) or sticks (if you waste 30 minutes of table time figuring out how to extract the adamantine hinges, we won't get tot he BBEG) or removing the original incentive (org play style wealth guidelines, or Set's suggestion).
A pathological person needs to be cured, which is a whole other kettle of fish.
Byersly: your aside is kind of my point. I've met looter players, then I've met LOOTER players. I concede to you that, for MOST players extreme looting loses its appeal after about level 3-5, but for a select few its ingrained; "pathological, not rational" as you say.Right, but if your player is pathological, then there might not be much you can do to retrain them. A rational person can be swayed with carrots (if you don't loot the fixtures I can add more treasure) or sticks (if you waste 30 minutes of table time figuring out how to extract the adamantine hinges, we won't get tot he BBEG) or removing the original incentive (org play style wealth guidelines, or Set's suggestion).
A pathological person needs to be cured, which is a whole other kettle of fish.
LOL Yep, I know people like that. here would be their replies.
carrots (if you don't loot the fixtures I can add more treasure)= 'I KNOW there is this loot. Who knows what I'll find later. You could change your mind...
sticks (if you waste 30 minutes of table time figuring out how to extract the adamantine hinges, we won't get tot he BBEG)= 'He's not going anywhere so we can get him when we're done.'
removing the original incentive (org play style wealth guidelines, or Set's suggestion).= 'Are you trying to screw us? What's the point if you do it like that?'
If you don't like extreme traps you can always go with the time honored chono/dimensionally displaced dungeon.
As soon as anything is removed from the dungeon it disintegrates due to extreme age or snaps back to its original dimension and is lost.
or perhaps everything in the dungeon is fabricated with magic. As soon as it is removed from the magic field that sustains it it fades away to nothing.
Or perhaps everything in the dungeon is cloaked in extremely powerful illusions. In the dungeon it looks like gold and diamonds but outside it is apparent everything is lead and glass.
OD&D had something similar with the first "drow metal" version of adamantine. You could steal the drow-made items like their super chain mail or crossbows but as soon as you removed them from the underground regions the drow inhabit and thus the "weird energies" below (radiation since everyone knows a spaceship crashed down there!) then their properties would begin to fade. Also exposure to sunlight was deadly to these items.
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OD&D had something similar with the first "drow metal" version of adamantine. You could steal the drow-made items like their super chain mail or crossbows but as soon as you removed them from the underground regions the drow inhabit and thus the "weird energies" below (radiation since everyone knows a spaceship crashed down there!) then their properties would begin to fade. Also exposure to sunlight was deadly to these items.
I always thought this was a lame mechanic. Its a classic 'the DM wants to have NPCs with magic items, but not glut the party with +1 weapons and equipment' thing.
Also the drow never had a problem with it on surface raids. And it was sunlight, not just being away from the underdark, so it didn't even work as intended as heroes just kept the items under-cover.
The eternal loot paradox on NPCs is the NPCs need gear to be competitive but the heroes get that gear when they overcome them. My players have been up to their ears in amulets of natural armor and rings of protection as a result (also because the NPCs from the NPC codex are equipped spectacularly boringly, in an attempt to get their ACs competitive).
We might be getting a bit away from the original topic, but regarding NPC gear...