How much should an item that allows you to cast cure light wounds with a command word cost?

[mysticbelmont]

By the magic item creation rules, it should be 1800 gp, but that is quite low considering a ring of regeneration is much more expensive (although a ring of regeneration does other things as well).

Let's say the ring only heals 1d8+1 with a command word (or a standard action).

Should we set the caster level at 20, meaning the item costs 36,000 gp?

[Flamephoenix182]

Well this only comparison I could find was a bead of healing:
bead of healing 9,000 gp Wearer can cast his choice of cure serious wounds, remove blindness/deafness, or remove disease

This only works once per day though.

The magic items creation rules for custom items are imprecise, and meant to be used with common sense and GM input.

If you are a player you should talk to your GM to see if he would even allow that in his/her game and for what price.

If you are the GM, I would strongly advise that you don't allow this item in your game as it gives the wielder unlimited healing to him and the party (unless this is a very high level game where out of combat healing is trivial anyways)

This is of course assuming that this item is at will? and does not have a daily limit?

[LazarX]

Just because you can create an item with the magic item creation rules doesn't mean it should be allowed.

A CLW ring as you describe, is infinite out of combat healing, which changes a hell of a lot in this game.

[ryric]

Didn't we just have this discussion a couple weeks ago?

Remember the first rules of custom items are GM's approval, and price by comparison. Chart is a last resort.

The previous thread seemed to vary all the way up to artifact, but I think a price in the 18000-50000 range(it was really all over the place) was the mode.

Really my advice is "GM don't allow it." It really changes some of the dynamics of the game when your party is absolutely full up between every encounter. Not every single thing can be on a time crunch.

The reason this differs from just a bunch of wands is that a PC at 96/100 might say "don't waste a charge, I'm good enough." If there are unlimited charges that same PC would top off.

[blahpers]

At will? A lot.

Don't read the chart. Read the rules. Read the guidelines. Then, when the rules and guidelines instruct you to consult the chart, read the chart.

In particular, this is the most important part of the entire section on creating magic items:

PRD wrote:

Pricing New Items

The correct way to price an item is by comparing its abilities to similar items (see Magic Item Gold Piece Values), and only if there are no similar items should you use the pricing formulas to determine an approximate price for the item. If you discover a loophole that allows an item to have an ability for a much lower price than is given for a comparable item in the Core Rulebook, the GM should require using the price of the Core Rulebook item, as that is the standard cost for such an effect. Most of these loopholes stem from trying to get unlimited uses per day of a spell effect from "command word" or "use-activated or continuous" descriptions.

Example: Rob's cleric wants to create a heavy mace with a continuous true strike ability, granting its wielder a +20 insight bonus on attack rolls. The formula for a continuous spell effect is spell level × caster level × 2,000 gp, for a total of 2,000 gp (spell level 1, caster level 1). Jessica, the GM, points out that a +5 enhancement bonus on a weapon costs 50,000 gp, and the +20 bonus from true strike is much better than the +5 bonus from standard weapon enhancement, and suggests a price of 200,000 gp for the mace. Rob agrees that using the formula in this way is unreasonable and decides to craft a +1 heavy mace using the standard weapon pricing rules instead.

Example: Patrick's wizard wants to create bracers with a continuous mage armor ability, granting the wearer a +4 armor bonus to AC. The formula indicates this would cost 2,000 gp (spell level 1, caster level 1). Jessica reminds him that bracers of armor +4 are priced at 16,000 gp and Patrick's bracers should have that price as well. Patrick agrees, and because he only has 2,000 gp to spend, he decides to spend 1,000 gp of that to craft bracers of armor +1 using the standard bracer prices.

At at-will cure light wounds item, on its face, doesn't seem very powerful. However, hit points intended to be a limited resource at lower levels, and characters are not intended to get a free heal-to-full between every encounter without at least some cost in either gold or daily resources. Wands and potions have non-negligible costs at such levels, so they're acceptable, and priced accordingly. At higher levels, when you'd be spamming an entire wand to get anything done, that's the point when you start looking for items like a ring of regeneration, which is much more expensive. In any case, a lot of low- to mid-level adventures rely on dwindling hit points and hit point restoring resources during an "adventuring day", and a CLW widget nukes the balance of such adventures. If you tend to run only one or two encounters a day, this is less important, and such an item might be less expensive.

On the subject of comparisons: An at-will cure light wounds item is actually stronger than a ring of regeneration in many respects. Sure, it requires an action every round to activate it, but it also heals more per round. A ring of regeneration doesn't provide meaningful hit point healing during combat; it mostly serves to (a) top off quickly between hazards and (b) prevent bleed effects and provide auto-stabilize, with (c) dealing with severed body parts a distant third. In battle, the CLW widget might actually be useful.

As for caster level: If you set the caster level to 20, I'd expect the item to heal 1d8+5 hit points per use, just as a 20th-level caster would heal with the spell.

[BigDTBone]

It is an item you shouldn't make. Also don't make permanent "shield" items or use-activated "true strike" items.

[James Risner]

ryric wrote:

Didn't we just have this discussion a couple weeks ago?

We have it nearly weekly, yes.

All those asserting these prices for unlimited healing do three things:
1) Assert that "out of combat healing should be free and unlimited" without any evidence to confirm.
2) Ignore the first rule of item creation which is to look at similar items (like Ring of Regeneration and Ioun stone of healing.)
3) Ignore the second rule of item creation which is look for similar powered items (and unlimited healing item would be an artifact in the hands of an army general that you would go to war to maintain control.)

[Victor Zajic]

I've seen an infinite times per day cure light wounds rock allowed in a one-shot, once. In order to activate it, the strongest member of the party had to hit you with the rock for lethal damage. In practise it ended up being about a 50%-50% shot of making things better/worse.

[Diego Rossi]

CLW is a instantaneous spell. So you don't have a basis to make it continuous. You could make it a use activated item, but there are several posts against that idea made by the developers of the game.

The best way to price it is to start with with a command item word with 5 uses/day. It cost 1,800 gp. Divide by 5 and you get a price of 360 gp for each use. Multiply by 2 if it is a slotless item.

So the price of a item capable to cast 1 CLW at CL1 each day is 360, 720 if the item is slotless.
Multiply that for the number of uses you want in a day and you have a reasonable price for your item.

You can compare that price with the price of a wand of CLW. They are almost the same for the slotless version with 1 use/day.

If you think that you will fight for less than 50 days in your entire careerer the wand is decidedly better. Same thing if you want some fast healing. On the other hand if you think you will have a lot of small encounters in your career and you have little or no healing spells it can be useful. Being capable to heal a few hit points every day without burning charges from a wand would stretch a wand life a lot.

It would be a nice item for the "skill needed to use" cost discount. A healing kit that cast CLW when used a few times a day and require some level of the healing skill has a strong flavor.

[Gauss]

The best comparison for an infinite use CLW is Ring of Regeneration.
no action 1hp per round vs standard action 5.5hp per round seems about an equal trade.

[TyrKnight]

ryric wrote:

Didn't we just have this discussion a couple weeks ago?

I've seen this discussion since 3.0. It's a constant thing.