So one of our people died in the campaign and now he has to make a new character. He is thinking of making a Cavalier with a horse mount.
Now our issue here is the horse mount. We often go into cave like structures and if I recall correctly, horses do not willingly go inside a cave, that's why donkeys exist in this game.
So is a Cavalier horse different from the ordinary horse mount or is there any way to make sure that this isn't a problem?
I would appreciate it if the answer could also have a quote out of a book so I can convince our DM of the answer.
Thanks! :)
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If you look at the horse stat block no where does it say that they have a weakness to entering structures or caves, and even if your DM thought they wouldn't be inclined to, well, that's what Handle Animal is for. The real issue is that horses are large sized so they may not fit in all areas and as such would have to squeeze, which could also mean your Cavalier would not be able to be mounted.
The feat Narrow Frame, which the animal companion could take, would alleviate those issues, but the Cavalier would still find himself walking quite a bit in-doors. That could be a bit of a drag if he wants to focus on mounted combat. Another route to explore would to go Halfling/Gnome and take a riding dog as your mount. It's medium sized so it can go anywhere and you can always stay mounted.
The name does make it a hazard to answer, but I'll bite...
The mount of a cavalier is handled rule-wise like an animal companion of a druid of the same level as the cavalier.
An animal companion is NOT an animal; it has its own stat block and advancement track (see druid section in CRB).
A cavalier (like the druid) has a great amount of control over her AC, and gets +4 on Handle Animal skill when dealing with her AC.
Regardless, the AC is much more inclined to go places it physically can but a normal out-of-the-Bestiary-animal wouldn't.
Ruyan.
If you look at the horse stat block no where does it say that they have a weakness to entering structures or caves, and even if your DM thought they wouldn't be inclined to, well, that's what Handle Animal is for. The real issue is that horses are large sized so they may not fit in all areas and as such would have to squeeze, which could also mean your Cavalier would not be able to be mounted.
The feat Narrow Frame, which the animal companion could take, would alleviate those issues, but the Cavalier would still find himself walking quite a bit in-doors. That could be a bit of a drag if he wants to focus on mounted combat. Another route to explore would to go Halfling/Gnome and take a riding dog as your mount. It's medium sized so it can go anywhere and you can always stay mounted.
Yeah he at first wanted to be a large PC with a huge mount but that wouldn't happen. So he realizes that he might have some trouble with space.
The name does make it a hazard to answer, but I'll bite...
The mount of a cavalier is handled rule-wise like an animal companion of a druid of the same level as the cavalier.
An animal companion is NOT an animal; it has its own stat block and advancement track (see druid section in CRB).
A cavalier (like the druid) has a great amount of control over her AC, and gets +4 on Handle Animal skill when dealing with her AC.
Regardless, the AC is much more inclined to go places it physically can but a normal out-of-the-Bestiary-animal wouldn't.Ruyan.
That's actually quite true. I'll try that then.
Thanks!
"Unlike a horse, a donkey or mule is willing (though not eager) to enter dungeons and other strange or threatening places." -- Core Rulebook, Equipment section
I agree with RuyanVe in that Cavalier mounts are treated as druid animal companions, but they are still just animals. They have strong instincts to avoid such areas.
I would say that unless the mount has the "Attack" trick, making it move underground would be "pushing" the animal (DC 25). If trained to Attack, I would require just a DC 20 handle animal roll to convince the mount to move underground initially and at any other points the environment changes (darker, different ground, smaller spaces, etc).
If the horse can conceivably smell creatures other than humanoids, monstrous humanoids, giants, or other animals (and their sense of smell is very good), then you must have put two points into the "Attack" trick or it would be back to pushing the animal again.
Characters with animal companions get a +4 when using the Handle Animal skill on them.
This does not fall under pushing unless the animal does not have either the "Come" trick or the "Heel" trick.
Both tricks are auto-successes (when taking 10) for a person with a trained animal companion and near guaranteed auto-successes for even regular animals with the tricks.
Finally, I suggest a halfling boar rider if you really want to get the best bang for you buck in an small space setting. :)
Do you require these extra checks for all Druid animal companions, or are you just biased against Cavaliers? Lions, for example, certainly aren't subterranean animals, after all, and unlike Cavalier mounts they don't come combat trained by default. Do your Wizards need to push their ravens to get them to go indoors, since that is against the nature of a bird?
Depends on the animal. Horse and lion--yes. Dire Bat--No. Yes, all characters with animal companions are subject to the same rules.
Wizard/Witch familiars are not animals. They are magical beasts and are thus exempt.
Note that the bestiary Horse and Pony have the "docile" special quality which is likely where the CRB gets the "unwilling to enter strange places" thing. The animal companion version does not. Furthermore, Cavalier mounts are always combat trained so unless you train them out of it, they always know the Attack trick.
There is a very good reason why horses are not taken into dungeons and mules and donkeys are.
Yes, the vanilla cavalier mount have Attack by default. I included that for completeness because all animals use the same rules.
This does not fall under pushing unless the animal does not have either the "Come" trick or the "Heel" trick.
Both tricks are auto-successes (when taking 10) for a person with a trained animal companion and near guaranteed auto-successes for even regular animals with the tricks.Finally, I suggest a halfling boar rider if you really want to get the best bang for you buck in an small space setting. :)
You are correct that come and heel will also work and are only DC 15.
I think Paizo really needed to include a cavalier archetype that had no mount (or other animals). All the other classes have options that allow them to ditch the pets.
I think Paizo really needed to include a cavalier archetype that had no mount (or other animals). All the other classes have options that allow them to ditch the pets.
They already did, it's called Samurai. At least so far as the class isn't really focused on mounted combat.
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Just a funny note, I don't think "Eric the Cavalier" ever rode a single mount.
Animal companions are rules-wise not animals as they have their own mechanics. Otherwise I handle such situations similar to what Gauss wrote.
Ruyan.
Mostly. They aren't normal animals, anyway. They have the animal type, though; they're just weird blocks of stats that happen to look like suspiciously homogeneously-sized animals.
Just a funny note, I don't think "Eric the Cavalier" ever rode a single mount.
That's who I visualize when I think of cavalier too.
Bite thy tongue! I do not visualize "Eric the Cavalier" whenever I think of cavaliers. :)