In relation to Damon Griffin's listing of timelines, I found these items:
and
I will never excuse DC for Hypertime. Absolutely lame blanket excuse for any and all continuity errors they might make from then on.
No, the bit that got me was Caitlyn not knowing what a singularity is.
Yeah, that bugged me, too. If somebody needed to hold the 'please explain to the normal person / non-science geek in the room the plot' ball, couldn't it have been someone who legitimately wouldn't have known, like Eddie, Iris or Joe?
Instead, Caitlin, one of the smartest people in the city, goes all Professional Physicist Barbie. "Gosh, math is hard! Someone with testicles needs to explain this to me, 'cause I'm just a girl!"
You do realize that not all scientists share the same expertise? She's a biologist, not a physicist.
This seems more likely to me. Otherwise why taunt him with his lack of fame and loss of Iris?
Thawne/Wells has a lot of character defects, but petty spitefulness doesn't really seem to be among them.
Think again:
** spoiler omitted **
I'd rather think of that as Epic spitefulness :)
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Also, re: Eddie
And then had Zoom react like Barry did, shifting into high speed, and pulling the bullet out of the air before it could penetrate his flesh. Good thing Eddie already had plenty of experience in shooting at Zoom and made the right call.
Also, this isn't a real cliffhanger. Go ahead and slog through ten seasons of Smallville if you want cliffhangers in your season finale. Every time.
Everything that was built up throughout the season, and even the episode here got resolved. Sure, there was a temporal vortex that showed up at the end, but that poses no more questions than "How is Arrow going to continue if he's happy now and Ras is dead?"
How many timelines/branches are we even dealing with so far?
Timeline 1 - In the original timeline, Nora Allen lives, Henry Allen doesn't go to jail and Barry is raised by them, though somehow he still ends up becoming a forensic scientist working for CCPD. The particle accelerator is actually built by Harrison Wells and goes online in 2019. It explodes immediately, Barry becomes The Flash.
Timeline 2 - Barry killed as a child.
Timeline 3 - We join Timeline 3 already in progress as Future Flash #2 (more on that name later) arrives to intercept Thawne and save his young self. We don't yet know how old Barry was when he made this trip or how he made it. He fights with Thawne, gets his younger self out of danger and...then it's not clear what happens to him. Perhaps he had a fixed amount of time he could be in the past, and time ran out. In this timeline he doesn't have any other [red] Flash to interact with. In any case, as soon as Thawne is foiled, he kills Nora in a fit of rage, runs out of the Allen house and finds he's run out of juice. He can't get back home without making certain changes to history, so he locates Harrison Wells, kills him and his wife and takes over Well's identity, thereby spawning...
Timeline 4 - This is the timeline we were in when the show started. Nora dead, Henry in jail, Barry raised by Joe West. "Wells" builds the particle accelerator and brings it online in 2014 rather than 2019. The explosion affects the set of metahumans we're familiar with, rather than those who were affected in the original timeline. Along the way Barry and company discover that an adult Barry Allen was present in 1999, and assume it's Flash-2014 but as will later become apparent, it's Future Flash #2 instead. Stuff happens over the course of the season. Eventually Cisco discovers that Wells is Thawne and is killed around the time Mardon unleashes a tsunami on Central City and Barry runs one day back in time, creating...
Timeline 5 - With only one day overlap, it's not as dramatic a shift as the other branches have created, but the TV viewer never sees any more of where Timeline 4 would have gone from that day forward. There's no tsunami this time, and Cisco lives but Barry learns some things he wouldn't otherwise have known and Cisco retains subconscious memories of Timeline 4. Acting on this knowledge they learn about "Wells" more quickly than they might otherwise have, gain bits of knowledge about the (really, "a") future and force a confrontation. Thawne convinces Barry to take a chance on traveling to the past to try and save his mother. Barry runs around inside the particle accelerator, taps into the Speed Force at the snail's pace of Mach 2, and arrives in 1999 as Future Flash #1, branching to...
Timeline 6 - Flash-2015 is Future Flash #1 because his departure point from his own "present" is earlier than that of Future Flash #2. He is silently cautioned by Future Flash #2 not to interfere with what Future Flash #2 does. The scenario between young Barry, Nora, Henry, Reverse Flash and ure Flash #2 plays out just as it did in Timeline 3 except for Future Flash #2 waving off Future Flash #1. Then Barry says his goodbyes and returns to 2015 to stop Thawne from returning to the 23rd Century. There is no [known] timeline where Thawne does return to his own time from this point, but it's likely he would have managed it somewhere doen the line in Timeline 6 if Eddie had not sacrificed himself to create...
Timeline 7 - This is where the whole mess threatens to collapse. We need a comic book pseudoscientific explanation for how time alteration works for this show, to explain how, if Eobard Thawne is never born, any of the timelines from 2 forward ever occurred. Remember that Timeline 1 still includes Barry becoming The Flash and disappearing in The Crisis. The existence of Barry-as-Flash plus some set of Star Labs-created metahumans is covered. The real Harrison Wells can do in Timeline 1 much of what Thawne-as-Wells did starting in Timeline 3. But if Eobard Thawne were truly removed from existence, as his pixelization suggested, that [b[should[/b] have generated...
Timeline 8 - which would be largely indistinguishable from the early part of Timeline 1. It would differ in that Barry would never encounter Eobard Thawne as Reverse Flash, even post-2015.
In both Timelines 1 and 8, sometime after 2015 Barry becomes head of the CCPD Forensics Unit, builds the Gideon AI and becomes a founding member of the Justice League.
Additions/corrections?
You have split the timeline in ways that did not occur. Timeline 3 and 4 are the same timeline...there is no timeline in which Nora is killed, but Zoom is not trapped and does not kill Wells.
Timeline 6 likewise is a false distinction. We do not know that Red Flash never encountered Maroon Flash, in fact, it seems likely that he did.
Also, Timeline 2 never occurs (that we see.)
We have Timeline 1 (Barry becomes Red Flash, with parents, Zoom fights him, Red Flash (thus far) never returned from his saving Young Barry)
Timeline 2 (Barry becomes Maroon Flash, with West as adoptive parent, is taught by Zoom/Wells, etc, aka The Show)
Timeline 2b. (Aborted timeline with tsunami and Cisco dying)
Timeline 3 (Reverse Flash never exists* due to Eddie killing himself.)
*This almost certainly leads to a creation paradox that sparks Zoom's interest in killing Flash, or Eddie's body is restored and he becomes Cobalt Blue, leading to the eventual creation of Zoom.
We will have to see how the temporal vortex plays out, because it is possible that Barry gets his mom back if Reverse Flash is never able to exist and thus kill her. We might end up back on Timeline 1.
I suspect that the singularity was caused by the weight of the paradoxes, somewhat like the paradox-hunting creatures from Series 1 of the rebooted Doctor Who. Fixing the singularity will resolve the paradoxes somehow.
I suspect that the singularity was caused by the weight of the paradoxes, somewhat like the paradox-hunting creatures from Series 1 of the rebooted Doctor Who. Fixing the singularity will resolve the paradoxes somehow.
Ordinarily that'd be true, but you forget about the added spacetime distortion of an entire season's worth of plotholes. ;)
I suspect that the singularity was caused by the weight of the paradoxes, somewhat like the paradox-hunting creatures from Series 1 of the rebooted Doctor Who. Fixing the singularity will resolve the paradoxes somehow.Ordinarily that'd be true, but you forget about the added spacetime distortion of an entire season's worth of plotholes. ;)
Like what?
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You do realize that not all scientists share the same expertise? She's a biologist, not a physicist.No, the bit that got me was Caitlyn not knowing what a singularity is.
Yeah, that bugged me, too. If somebody needed to hold the 'please explain to the normal person / non-science geek in the room the plot' ball, couldn't it have been someone who legitimately wouldn't have known, like Eddie, Iris or Joe?
Instead, Caitlin, one of the smartest people in the city, goes all Professional Physicist Barbie. "Gosh, math is hard! Someone with testicles needs to explain this to me, 'cause I'm just a girl!"
If this were some esoteric specialized fact you might have a point.
I don't care what she is. She had a basic scientific education before she specialized in biology. I'm sure she took "Physical Science" in middle school.
I would be just as incredulous if Cisco didn't know what photosynthesis was.
You do realize that not all scientists share the same expertise? She's a biologist, not a physicist.No, the bit that got me was Caitlyn not knowing what a singularity is.
Yeah, that bugged me, too. If somebody needed to hold the 'please explain to the normal person / non-science geek in the room the plot' ball, couldn't it have been someone who legitimately wouldn't have known, like Eddie, Iris or Joe?
Instead, Caitlin, one of the smartest people in the city, goes all Professional Physicist Barbie. "Gosh, math is hard! Someone with testicles needs to explain this to me, 'cause I'm just a girl!"
If this were some esoteric specialized fact you might have a point.
I don't care what she is. She had a basic scientific education before she specialized in biology. I'm sure she took "Physical Science" in middle school.
I would be just as incredulous if Cisco didn't know what photosynthesis was.
The "Singularity" in the show doesn't seem to reflect the real world concept. It's more likely just a cool name for what we see in the show. A real black hole would need far more mass than is present. I get that she should have learned the real-world term, but people forget things they don't use. And since "black hole" is such a common term, a more obscure one might not have stuck in her mind.
The "Singularity" in the show doesn't seem to reflect the real world concept.
Very little in the show seems to "reflect the real world concept". (A "real world" physicist would be dead in the street, their heads exploded from essentially-no-actual-physics-working-whatsoever.)
I'm not sure that's an excuse for Dr. Snow's weird lack of knowledge on something even the audience could figure out in a nanosecond.
The "Singularity" in the show doesn't seem to reflect the real world concept.Very little in the show seems to "reflect the real world concept". (A "real world" physicist would be dead in the street, their heads exploded from essentially-no-actual-physics-working-whatsoever.)
I'm not sure that's an excuse for Dr. Snow's weird lack of knowledge on something even the audience could figure out in a nanosecond.
point
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I think an added thing to remember is 'Singularity' is a term that has been used for multiple things in multiple Sci-fi settings.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singularity
If someone told me they were creating a singularity... I'd ask them to clarify what they were talking about too. Admittedly Caitlen should have then added in "I was afraid that's what you meant..."
But I'll not nitpick :P
We could pretend we missheard her and she said "What sort of Singularity?"
Or the fact that someone in the room needed to ask what it was so that it could be explained to the audience, and of the 5 people in the room she was the least likely to have known it due to the nature of her scientific area of study being biology could be why she was the one to ask.
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Or the fact that someone in the room needed to ask what it was so that it could be explained to the audience, and of the 5 people in the room she was the least likely to have known it due to the nature of her scientific area of study being biology could be why she was the one to ask.
Did it even need to be explained to the audience? Most people know what a singularity is, and it would have become pretty obvious what was meant once it happened.
And if it did, they should have put one of the dumber members of the crew like Iris or Eddie in the room, not make one of the smart team look woefully under-educated.
They have it technically "wrong", but they also have it pop-culturally correct, which is close enough for entertainment purposes.
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Or the fact that someone in the room needed to ask what it was so that it could be explained to the audience, and of the 5 people in the room she was the least likely to have known it due to the nature of her scientific area of study being biology could be why she was the one to ask.
Yeah, because Joe, Eddie, and Iris would be MUCH more likely to know then Dr. Snow.
Did it even need to be explained to the audience? Most people know what a singularity is, and it would have become pretty obvious what was meant once it happened.
Yes it did, and no they don't.
This show is reaching beyond the standard nerd culture and going pretty mainstream. When my MOM starts looking forward to Flash... things are happening.
What they probably SHOULD have done, is skip the word 'Singularity' completely and just say 'Black Hole'... or 'Tear in Time' or Something that ISN'T so specifically scientific and more obvious to people outside 'the know'.
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Or the fact that someone in the room needed to ask what it was so that it could be explained to the audience, and of the 5 people in the room she was the least likely to have known it due to the nature of her scientific area of study being biology could be why she was the one to ask.Yeah, because Joe, Eddie, and Iris would be MUCH more likely to know then Dr. Snow.
No they probably wouldn't know, but since they weren't in the scene, they couldn't have asked the question. Only Cisco, Ronnie, Dr Stein, and Barry were there other than Caitlin. Ronnie was really the only other option, but since he was an engineer on a particle accelerator its probably something he should have known.
I was just going to point that out. My recollection was that they'd moved all the other players out of the room by that point and needed someone to ask the "dumb" question. Daemonprince's memory jibes with mine.
In retrospect, they should have kept at least one of the other three there, but I think they needed Eddie and Iris elsewhere to do the whole "Screw the future! Marry me!" thing, and Joe was... I'm not actually sure why he wasn't around at the moment.
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Random Flash predictions (not spoilers, 'cause I'm totally making this up);
Harrison Wells will be not-dead and in charge of Star Labs next season. He will *not* be terribly like Eobard-pretending-to-be-Harrison, and will *not* think of Cisco as the son he never had, and be kind of a dick (wondering why his lowly intern thinks he can just randomly invite his friends Barry, etc. into this secure facility to hang out, use Star Labs resources on his own private experiments into speed suits and cold guns, etc.), leading to Cisco at one point muttering to himself, "I can't believe I'm saying this, but I kind of miss the evil guy who killed you and took your place right now..."
Mrs. Harrison Wells will also be not-dead, and provide an adult female presence on the show, which has something of a surplus of dead moms and absentee ex-wives and the like, leaving the two female roles to ladies in their early 20s. (Disney syndrome. Everyone has a dad. No one has a mom.) Mrs. Wells will not be terribly similar to Moira Queen, indicating that the writers know how to write more than one 'adult female' character.
Cisco will, naturally, remember the original events, Thawne-as-Wells, etc. Every now and then he might have to point things out to the others, of whom only Barry will (for different reasons) remember events from the previous seasons.
Unfortunately, Barry and Cisco being the ones who remember, will lead to more annoying secret keeping, as Joe, Iris, Caitlin, etc. won't necessarily have a clue what's going on behind the scenes...
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Mrs. Harrison Wells will also be not-dead, and provide an adult female presence on the show, which has something of a surplus of dead moms and absentee ex-wives and the like, leaving the two female roles to ladies in their early 20s.
Danielle Panabaker is actually in her late 20s (27, to be exact). So I would assume that Caitlin Snow is about that same age as well.
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The Flash battles new and returning foes in latest premiere pics and teaser trailer
WOOT! ATOM SMASHER!!!
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Has anyone been watching Vixen on CW Seed? It's a shorts-based animated series giving backstory to the character Vixen that takes place in the Arrowverse. Stephen Amell and Grant Gustin both voice their characters, as does Emily Bett Rickards (Felicity) and Carlos Valdes (Cisco). It's been interesting, but I'm wondering if the character will appear in either series. It would be pretty cool if she does.
I've been thinking of starting it. It looks pretty good. Did the same people who did Young Justice do it? The animation/art style looks very similar.
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Has anyone been watching Vixen on CW Seed? It's a shorts-based animated series giving backstory to the character Vixen that takes place in the Arrowverse. Stephen Amell and Grant Gustin both voice their characters, as does Emily Bett Rickards (Felicity) and Carlos Valdes (Cisco). It's been interesting, but I'm wondering if the character will appear in either series. It would be pretty cool if she does.
Ooh, I didn't know that it was out yet. Vixen's one of my favorite League ladies, with a great powerset (fly like an eagle!, fast as a hummingbird!, strong as a whale!, mantis-shrimp death-punch hard and fast enough to set the air on fire and create a sonic boom!, senses of, oh, *everything!*).
I'd love a live action show about that character. They could even cheap on the special effects by just having animal sounds occur when she uses the powers of an animal, instead of anything visual (a hawk's cry when she takes off and fly, a whale song snippet when she channels the strength of a blue whale, etc.). No need for fancy animal graphic overlays, except perhaps in special episodes.
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See how the world of The Flash comes to life in new visual effects reelThe link is not a link.
Egads! Mucho thanks! I must have missed a bit of the url when I copied and pasted.
Fixed in this post!
Why is there a new Firestorm? Is Robbie Amell contractually obligated to spend no more than one season on a single show?
I don't like the new Firestorm.
How can you like or not like the new Firestorm based on that? He's on screen twice for a total of less than a second.
Now, not liking the fact that there already is a new Firestorm, that I can get behind.
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That he's new, mostly.
Not sure why people immediately jump to "It's a race thing" when a character is randomly changed to a different actor, it's always kind of annoying.
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I don't like that it's not Ronnie Raymond merged with Stein. The character was just introduced, and they did a great job of showing the grudging respect between the two as they tried to find a balance between the Stein and Ronnie in the merged body. By bringing in a new character, it's basically throwing away a lot of the character development done in season one.
OF course, I liked Robbie Amell as Ronnie, but I would rather they had recast than have Stein join with someone else.
Is it a different character entirely? That's...odd.
Did they have a contract dispute with Robbie or something?
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Is it a different character entirely? That's...odd.
Did they have a contract dispute with Robbie or something?
Well, it's half a new character. Martin Stein is still there, and the same actor. The younger half providing the body when merged is the new guy.
I don't know why they are doing the change.
