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1: yes. If the base weapon can do slashing damage, it can be enchanted with vorpal.
2: no. Vorpal only works while doing slashing damage. If you are doing piercing the enchantment has no effect.
3: no. There is still the +10 limit on items. Vorpal is always active on the dagger, it just has no effect when the weapon is not doing the appropriate damage type.
4: yes. You can put disruption on a morning star as it always does bludgeoning damage. The fact that it also does piercing at the same time is irrevelant.
On #2 Imbicatus, what would you say if someone had the new versatile damage feat from the undead slayer book AND that vorpal weapon. Would the weapon lose it's enchantments if you hit with the weapon a different way? For #4 would that character's disruption mace do nothing if they do slashing damage with the same feat?
I'll same the same thing as seebs. Citation please.
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I have always understood dmg type as whatever is beneficial to the players given the situation. A dagger which has piercing and slashing damage types vs a creature that has a DR vs piercing for example would take dmg normally.
As combat happens you are doing dmg based on several motions going on in a 6 second period, I do not want to sit and go over every detail of the combat and slow it down more.
Just as I am not telling my players that they have to aim for the section of the NPC's armor that has a chink in it.
The only two exceptions that I can put on that is that they have a magic weapon that they do not know is Vorple for example. If the situation came up that would result in that ability being activated without his knowing I would then ask how he was attacking.
The second if if they have no idea that the creature has DR x/bludgeon and then they would have to make the necessary observations.
A vorpal weapon must be a slashing melee weapon. Thats the whole sentence.
A dagger can be used as a peircing OR a slashing weapon but not both at same time like a morning star can be both peircing and bludgeoning at same time. When u are using a vorpal dagger as a peircing weapon it is no longer a slashing weapon which means that vorpal doesnt activate.
A vorpal weapon must be a slashing melee weapon. Thats the whole sentence.
Whole sentence, but NOT the whole picture. Read the sentence AND the one after it. It's clear, IMO, it's a limitation on enchanting not attacking. I see nothing limiting the damage it does. Is there a rule that a weapon stops being one kind pf weapon while it does another type? I see nothing that says a dagger EVER stops being a piercing weapon. If there IS such a rule, please post a citation.
"A vorpal weapon must be a slashing melee weapon. If you roll this special ability randomly for an inappropriate weapon, reroll." It does not say what you seem to think it does. No where does it say 'you must deal slashing damage for the enchantment to work'. A slashing weapon doesn't have to deal slashing damage after all.
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It needs to be slashing to enchant the weapon with Vorpal.
The enchantment doesn't cease to function just because you are able to deal different types of damage with the weapon.
In fact, nothing short of an Anti-Magic Field, Dispel Magic effect, or being destroyed stops the enchantment from functioning.
A vorpal weapon must be a slashing melee weapon. Thats the whole sentence.Whole sentence, but NOT the whole picture. Read the sentence AND the one after it. It's clear, IMO, it's a limitation on enchanting not attacking. I see nothing limiting the damage it does. Is there a rule that a weapon stops being one kind pf weapon while it does another type? I see nothing that says a dagger EVER stops being a piercing weapon. If there IS such a rule, please post a citation.
"A vorpal weapon must be a slashing melee weapon. If you roll this special ability randomly for an inappropriate weapon, reroll." It does not say what you seem to think it does. No where does it say 'you must deal slashing damage for the enchantment to work'. A slashing weapon doesn't have to deal slashing damage after all.
I read and thought the sentence after was dealing with the enchanting while the sentence i qouted basically said a vorpal weapon is a slashing weapon meaning that a vorpal weapon is a slashing weapon.
as for the dagger, its either or but not both. Your either slashing with it or ur piercing with it, your not doing both. Reason why i say this is because on the weapon chart its says S or P while as someone pointed out a morningstar says B and P. Which leads me to believe with the difference of words your doing either or but not both like uwould with the morning star otherwise why did they put OR and not AND like they did with morningstar.so with a dagger ur either slashing (which would proc the enchant of decapitatimg because ur slashing) or u are stabbing aka piercing (which why still enchanted doesnt proc because u arent slashing).
Tbh there isnt anything concrete i can add to really prove my point. Vorpal must be a slashing
Vorpal must be a slashing
To enchant it, that's quite true...
As to the morningstar, use it with the WEAPON VERSATILITY feat from the undead book. Deal slashing damage with it. Did it magically stop being B and P weapon at ANY point? If you think so, once again either use a citation or please don't give your opinions as RAW fact in a rules question thread. It sound like that how you'd house-rule it, which is fine but i can't see how it'd RAW.
If you think so, once again either use a citation or please don't give your opinions as RAW fact in a rules question thread. It sound like that how you'd house-rule it, which is fine but i can't see how it'd RAW.
Can you cite the rule that says a non slashing weapon can be used as a Vorpal weapon? I am not aware of any such rule, you seem to be making an interpretation based on that absence. Which is fine, in fact the rule set requires us to make interpretations to fill in gaps. The important thing to remember, is that one interpretation is not more RAW than another.
My own view, for what it's worth, is that Vorpal only works with slashing weapons. That feat does not change the weapons used, it allows the warrior to use the weapons in different ways, because thats how feats work, they alter the person, not his equipment. So even if you had some means of making a club do slashing damage, the club cannot be enchanted with Vorpal, as it is still a bludgeoning weapon. if a crafter tried, he would just get an error message, no matter how loud the warrior shouted that he can slash with it.
It has to do with "intent", and the intent is to limit it to slashing. If you are not using the weapon ability in the manner intended, the ability should not activate. No, this is not in the book, but more than likely that is what a dev would say, if they were in this topic making a post. Not every rule will be written out like a technical document, so you have to look at the limitation, and learn when to apply it, even when it is not directly stated.
Jay the Madman: I already DID cite the rule. "A vorpal weapon must be a slashing melee weapon." It does NOT say it must deal slashing damage to activate. People on the other side of the argument are ADDING that proviso that isn't in the weapon description.
Your argument hinges on the fact that a weapon stops being it's type if it isn't dealing that damage at that moment, something I'm not seeing in the rules. Mine is based on what the rules actually say. (IE: type restrictions are on what weapon can have that enchantment... full stop)
The bottom line is that these type of enchantments never note what type of damage needs to be inflicted to activate the abilities. You guys are saying it's logical that it be that way, and that's fine but that'd be a houserule.
It has to do with "intent", and the intent is to limit it to slashing.
LOL See, I was arguing RAW. The intent doesn't matter in a rule question unless there is truly no rule to cover it. It may indeed be what they meant to say but that's not what they wrote.
And if the intent was that you have to deal that damage, did they not know that daggers existed? A core item that's a slashing weapon that doesn't HAVE to deal that type of damage. Seems like a poorly thought out 'unwritten rule' to me...
PS: All this talk of 'unwritten rules' lately is really annoying the crap out of me. 'unwritten rules' aren't rules in my book.
Well it states that a vorpal weapon must be a slashing weapon. Where does it state that a nonslashing magical weapon can be vorpal then or where does it state that u can do otherthan slashing for vorpal to go off?
Edit-i can find a mythic creature who has a vorpal bite but thats an ability and not an enchantment. I guess with it stating slashing, people view that as the prereq for it. Kinda like defending enchantment is always on but doesnt activate until u do a certain something. Daggers do bring a weird mix to things. Because a dagger it seems is neither a slashing or piercing weapon until u use it as such it seems (meaning it can be either but can only be used one way in ur attack either as a slashing or a pierfing weapon). It has the oppertunity to do both but just not at the same time like the morning star can.
But with vorpal id say the slashing is the prereq for it to be active to proc like other enchants have to have a certain thing to be happening for it to proc even though its constantly enchanted such as ex. Weilding or being in defensive stanc, etc etc.
But would love to see this cleared up with a faq.
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graystone, unfortunately you are wrong. A dagger can either be a piercing melee weapon or a slashing melee weapon based on the choice of the wielder. A vorpal weapon must be a slashing weapon, as such a dagger can be enchanted to be vorpal but when used as a piercing weapon it no longer can be used as vorpal since it is no longer a slashing weapon (even though it is enchanted as such). Done.
Why did it stop being a slashing weapon?
Did this feature disappear?
Do trip weapons lose their trip quality, when not used to trip?
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LOL See, I was arguing RAW. The intent doesn't matter...
You see, the Rules were Written so as to convey the Intent of the author. If you're not interested in the author's intent, then you really have no need for the rules either, just run it however you want. That's what houserules are for.
It has to do with "intent", and the intent is to limit it to slashing.LOL See, I was arguing RAW. The intent doesn't matter in a rule question unless there is truly no rule to cover it. It may indeed be what they meant to say but that's not what they wrote.
And if the intent was that you have to deal that damage, did they not know that daggers existed? A core item that's a slashing weapon that doesn't HAVE to deal that type of damage. Seems like a poorly thought out 'unwritten rule' to me...
PS: All this talk of 'unwritten rules' lately is really annoying the crap out of me. 'unwritten rules' aren't rules in my book.
Most people come here to find the intent. The actual words are.often easy to understand and the unwritten rule will always be here through extrapolation. That is just how the game works. There are actual threads dedicated to rules that are understood but that are not written.
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I'm confused, are people seriously suggesting that if a weapon is B,S,P that if they use the bludgeoning attack of the weapon they can decapitate with it?
With enough force, a bowling ball can take off your head.
Also, this is a magical enchantment, and the usual applications of real world physics does not apply.
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@BBT: What exactly are you arguing? It's written into the rules that if the type is significant, the wielder can choose which type of damage to do;
In other cases, a weapon can deal either of two types of damage. In a situation where the damage type is significant, the wielder can choose which type of damage to deal with such a weapon.
So in the case of a Dagger - which you can enchant as Vorpal, the vorpal quality will only work if you choose to slash with it.
If you're privy to some special secret rules, by all means share!
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@BBT: What exactly are you arguing? It's written into the rules that if the type is significant, the wielder can choose which type of damage to do;
In other cases, a weapon can deal either of two types of damage. In a situation where the damage type is significant, the wielder can choose which type of damage to deal with such a weapon.So in the case of a Dagger - which you can enchant as Vorpal, the vorpal quality will only work if you choose to slash with it.
If you're privy to some special secret rules, by all means share!
In return, I ask you what "special secret rules" stops the enchantment from functioning?
The requirements to place the enchantment on the weapon remain, regardless of the current type of damage being dealt.
So, a slashing remains a slashing weapon, for the purposes of being enchanted with the Vorpal enchantment, and the enchantment does not specify that it needs to be doing slashing damage to function.
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The Vorpal enchantment does not have this caveat.
There is no "this enchantment only functions when dealing slashing damage" clause.
A Keen Lucerne Hammer maintains it's Keen quality, regardless of whether it is being used to deal Bludgeoning or Piercing damage.
The prerequisites remain.
Just like how one never needs to uses the Power Attack feat, to take advantage of the Improved Bull Rush feat, the logic of needing to actually use the slashing aspect of a Vorpal weapon to function, is false.
Mmmm if u look in the core rulebook at table 15-9, it says something interesting. Maybe u cant enchant a dagger to be vorpal after all.
If u look at the table and loom at vorpal, it has a 2 beside it. The 2 goes on to say this.
2. Piercing or slashing weapons only (slashing only for vorpal). Reroll if randomly generated for a bludgeoning weapon.
Its interesting that its says P or S just like a dagger has BUT then in (x) it says slashing ONLY.
Im inclined to think that a dagger since it can do more than slashing and it doesnt do slashing ONLY that it cant be enchanted with vorpal. Id be incline to think it coukd be enchanted if it simply stated slashing weapons, but it says slashing ONLY for vorpal.
Dangit dagger, such a small thing to make things confusing lol.
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The logic is false?
That it specifically mentions severing and cutting off the head and has to be a slash damage weapon and if its the wrong type to reroll? To make the 2 cm leap that the slash weapon needs to, I dunno, be sharp and "slashy" to "sever" the head is false logic?
Yes. In regards to rules, and in regards to magic.
Wow, this is an interesting question i honestly never seen brought up before. I can see it being ruled either way so i say we faq it