Hello all,
For my next homebrew game as GM I was considering giving my group only a 10 point buy ability scores. What are your experiences with this? Does it demand heavy optimization of the players to survive normal CR encounters? Does it take away player freedom to make perhaps a slightly suboptimal build. How challenging does the game become?
Guess you will find them playing master summoners, synthesists, saurian druids, sacred summon clerics and conjurer:P
Aasimars can get an alternate racial giving 1/day lesser age resistance (immortal spark): plus 1 to int, cha, wis with no penalty. This is helpful in 10 point campaigns for casters.
*by your character being middle aged.
Scion of the humanity is nice if your world hates nonhumans
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How many players are you gonna have and are there gonna be other things in play like hero points and such? People seem to have developed a belief that if a primary score isn't at least an 18 then their PC can't be a good character. I always thought that a 14-15 should be adequate in a normal powered game.
My thoughts are take the first couple encounters slow and careful until you gauge the strength of the PCs well and give them something to help when the dice decide to leave them hanging (hero points, a free reroll here or there based on per session/adventure/fight or whatever, better than average starting gear, etc...)
A weak party of misfits gaining power and getting becoming heroes can be really fun to play as long as it isn't session after session of the players getting served.
everyone will either play a pet class (something with an animal companion or eidolon) or be disappointed/angry that they didn't...
for more details, see my post in your identical thread.
Nate raises a good point: It might be worth modifying companion base abilities to scale with the lower PC abilities.
I hear it's quite popular in shopkeeper-style games.
It will be challenging. I would definitely go caster if a GM told me this.
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For the past year I've been playing a character who is effectively an 8 point build. Having low stats is a terrible hindrance to the already weaker classes, but hardly any hindrance to the Tier I classes. Would be rough as a martial, but no problem at all for a Summoning-oriented cleric. A class like Fighter needs high stats to be effective, but a Druid, Cleric, or Wizard does not. Also, as has been pointed out, animal companions do not scale down.
I suggest that, along with a 10 point build, you also enact a prohibition on pets, animal companions, eidolons, et cetera.
Perhaps allow a 20 point build for PCs playing a class that has no spell casting ability (e.g. Rogues & Fighters), and the 10 point build for any class with any spell casting ability.
To clarify a few things:
I do not allow Summoner and all of its archetypes.
The characters must be non-evil.
They will get hero points on occasions and they can count on getting a few magical treasures after they complete encounters, dungeons and roleplaying encounters.
It will be more or less an inside out campaign where the players should have quite a lot of freedom as to what they want to do and achieve. The amount of magic shops in the world wont be such that they can buy all the their wishlist stuff everywhere all the time.
Last but not least: The players aren't superexperienced and I encourage them to play what they want to play rather than play what is superstrong. However the first time I played with them they had 25 point buy and everyone was so powerful that it didn't matter if I made them face mutiple +1 CR monsters.
I also want them to learn what their characters can and cannot handle. 10 point buy seems to me a good reason for them to really know their strengths and weaknesses. My main question is: is it too harsh? I find 15 point buy is solid, but I feel like trying 10 and maybe let them switch to 15 if truly necessary.
There are 4 players total but another one may join in. 5 is my max to handle as of now. (We play tabletop, not play-by-post)
I also allow only standard races, because the other races are either thematically too focused, just too weird, or overpowered. Another reason is that since I'm playing with novice players I want them to explore the standards before exploring the exotic, if that makes sense.
Then go with PB15
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As others mention, the thing about 10 point-buy is that it hurts some of the weakest character types a lot more than the strongest.
A Wizard can go Str 7 Dex 13 Con 12 Int 18 Wis 7 Cha 7 and still be very effective...almost as much so as in a 25 point-buy game. Even without dumping, they can go Str 10 Dex 10 Con 10 Int 16 Wis 10 Cha 10.
A Fighter...even if willing to dump stats hard, is limited to something like Str 16 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 7 Wis 8 Cha 7 and if he doesn't dump is more like: Str 14 Dex 12 Con 13 Int 10 Wis 10 Cha 10.
See which one that hurts more?
And then add in the classes that get pets (who will have the same stats they would in a higher point-buy)...and you get a really high degree of power imbalance between characters, which is seldom a good plan.
You're better off just sticking with 15 point-buy, IMO.
Ten point buys are harsh and you will really make the players think about what they are going to play.
But if they are clever and use good team work they should be fine just take it slow on the first few encounters ( maybe even under power them slightly ) till the party get in to the swing of it
And remind them running away is always an option
15 PB is better for your goals I think as well.
10 PB is VERY challenging for MAD characters and no problem at all for SAD ones.
20 PB with NO points for buying down stats is my preferred PB, as it places you perfectly into the expected power for existing adventures. But you could do a 15 PB with a restriction of no more than one stat bought down too.
10 PB is best reserved for experienced players who want a challenge when building their PCs.
Bruno, that is a very interesting consideration!
I agree with the mention that 10PB is mostly a hindrance to MAD-characters.
Perhaps it is indeed best if I just go with standard 15PB.
Thank you all for your very insightful thoughts and comments!