Poverty can be part of it but there are plenty of people who are not poor and who dont live in seedy neighborhoods who are pretty racist as well. Racial politics in the US is fairly complicated to the extent that people really dont like talking about it very much. These days it seems that people either seem to think that there is no racism or the side that talks about their experiences with racism is racist and if they stopped talking about it it would go away. Or you have the people who see racism in everything and use it as a cudgel as opposed to a scalpel.
I suspect it's the neighborhood and who lives there more than money itself. I came from a Yuppy neighborhood and we were called "new money" and while we were mostly white our parents accepted anyone with talent and upward mobility as friends it didn't matter what race. There was a boy from the much more affluent "old money" neighborhood who also had a horrible time with discrimination. He was Puerto Rican boy from a rich family... BUT he was an immigrant and everyone there looked down on him. When his family moved to our neighborhood his fortunes completely reversed. He went from the maligned outsider to almost rock star status with lots of popularity. He had lots of money and he was smart... but he did dress funny always wearing a tie and a vest.
Where I was raised there was no racism. However I do realize racism still exists out there in other less enlightened areas. I remember talking with a black coworker at one of my first jobs. He was spewing almost non stop racist comments about every other race. I called him on it asking him why he was so racist and his unenlightened response was "I can't be racist, I'm black.". Clearly where ever he comes from it sounds like the neighborhood was divided racially almost like battle lines. Sad. I think the world is getting better. In my eyes racism seems less and less as the years go by. Sexism is much more widespread rather than existing in ever shrinking pockets like racism. I shudder to think what life I would have had if I had been born a black woman in one of these backward pockets.
Where I was raised there was no racism. However I do realize racism still exists out there in other less enlightened areas. I remember talking with a black coworker at one of my first jobs. He was spewing almost non stop racist comments about every other race. I called him on it asking him why he was so racist and his unenlightened response was "I can't be racist, I'm black.". Clearly wherever he comes from it sounds like the neighborhood was divided racially almost like battle lines. Sad.
Yeah I've run into this before and while I can see where he was coming from by saying that, I disagree. Basically his definition of being racist and racism comes from being in a position of power in society. He probably views being white as that position of power and since, in his mind, he's not white? He cant be racist.
I think the world is getting better. In my eyes racism seems less and less as the years go by. Sexism is much more widespread rather than existing in ever shrinking pockets like racism....
See now I feel the opposite. I think sexism is now pretty much intolerable and racism as long as it's coded or not overt is acceptable.
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Sorry to continue the grits threadjack, but I feel I must warn Aranna - grits are incredibly easy to screw up. Getting the consistency right is difficult, and even if you do, they thicken as they stand. So if you happen to get nasty grits, don't assume all grits are nasty.
Sorry to continue the grits threadjack, but I feel I must warn Aranna - grits are incredibly easy to screw up. Getting the consistency right is difficult, and even if you do, they thicken as they stand. So if you happen to get nasty grits, don't assume all grits are nasty.
A truer thing has never been said. I've had great grits and I've had terrible grits. I tend to make my own grits thicker than my mom made them but not as thick as my dad.
When theyre great when theyre delicious. When they suck? UGH.
I'd rather eat spaghetti-os :p
Currently getting in touch with my heritage and eating my homemade Puerto Rican style rice and chicken. Everything is homemade, including the Puerto Rican style sofrito, adobo, and sazon. Made from brown rice and in the same manner as a pilaf. Very delicious.
Sounds delicious.
I put sofrito in almost everything, but due to the ugly baliwick of carribean and hispanic nuances, my mother did not teach me any traditional panamanian meals. So for the most part, sofrito ends up in my beans. Which I eat on top of rice, like a civilized person.
Well sofrito is great in beans and rice and stews and marinades. Though each island has its own version of sofrito. Puerto Rican sofrito has the distinction of having no tomatoes in it. Instead, there are aji dulce peppers as well as recao (culantro), which give it its distinctive flavor. Some like achiote (annatto) oil in it. Personally, I have enough achiote in my sazon, so I don't need that. Also I roast all my veggies and toast my coriander seeds before processing them. More robust flavor.
I ate a lot of Puerto Rican dishes when I was younger, but was never taught them. Had to learn myself, especially since, as much as I love them, I'm the best chef in my family.
I'd rather eat spaghetti-os :p
Currently getting in touch with my heritage and eating my homemade Puerto Rican style rice and chicken. Everything is homemade, including the Puerto Rican style sofrito, adobo, and sazon. Made from brown rice and in the same manner as a pilaf. Very delicious.
Sounds delicious.
I put sofrito in almost everything, but due to the ugly baliwick of carribean and hispanic nuances, my mother did not teach me any traditional panamanian meals. So for the most part, sofrito ends up in my beans. Which I eat on top of rice, like a civilized person.
Well sofrito is great in beans and rice and stews and marinades. Though each island has its own version of sofrito. Puerto Rican sofrito has the distinction of having no tomatoes in it. Instead, there are aji dulce peppers as well as recao (culantro), which give it its distinctive flavor. Some like achiote (annatto) oil in it. Personally, I have enough achiote in my sazon, so I don't need that. Also I roast all my veggies and toast my coriander seeds before processing them. More robust flavor.
I ate a lot of Puerto Rican dishes when I was younger, but was never taught them. Had to learn myself, especially since, as much as I love them, I'm the best chef in my family.
sofrito with no tomatoes in it? But that's heresy onii-chan.....
sofrito with no tomatoes in it? But that's heresy onii-chan.....I'd rather eat spaghetti-os :p
Currently getting in touch with my heritage and eating my homemade Puerto Rican style rice and chicken. Everything is homemade, including the Puerto Rican style sofrito, adobo, and sazon. Made from brown rice and in the same manner as a pilaf. Very delicious.
Sounds delicious.
I put sofrito in almost everything, but due to the ugly baliwick of carribean and hispanic nuances, my mother did not teach me any traditional panamanian meals. So for the most part, sofrito ends up in my beans. Which I eat on top of rice, like a civilized person.
Well sofrito is great in beans and rice and stews and marinades. Though each island has its own version of sofrito. Puerto Rican sofrito has the distinction of having no tomatoes in it. Instead, there are aji dulce peppers as well as recao (culantro), which give it its distinctive flavor. Some like achiote (annatto) oil in it. Personally, I have enough achiote in my sazon, so I don't need that. Also I roast all my veggies and toast my coriander seeds before processing them. More robust flavor.
I ate a lot of Puerto Rican dishes when I was younger, but was never taught them. Had to learn myself, especially since, as much as I love them, I'm the best chef in my family.
On the contrary, you put tomatoes in sofrito in Puerto Rico and you might be lynched :p
It's actually really delicious though. The roasted aji dulce peppers and recao really make the dish. Also roasted onions, roasted red pepper, and a roasted head of garlic.
And of course, cilantro. Mmmmm. I would send you some, but I'm in Florida. Sofrito doesn't keep for long.
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Nice discussion. I never went inside USA, pretty much because of the fear racism issues. As a outsider, i fear i could be shot at street without any warning because i am not white or something.
I am a typical Brazilian, so i can't say for sure if i would be considered black or latino (our racial stereotypes work a bit differenty), but around here people accept prettly any cultural choices you make (we are not color blind as some people claim, but most people don't associate anything by the color of the skin, only social status).
So i can't really relate to anything beside regular discrimination for being nerd, but if i ever go to USA to attend a PAIZOCON or GENCON, i can understand better what could really happen.
sofrito with no tomatoes in it? But that's heresy onii-chan.....I'd rather eat spaghetti-os :p
Currently getting in touch with my heritage and eating my homemade Puerto Rican style rice and chicken. Everything is homemade, including the Puerto Rican style sofrito, adobo, and sazon. Made from brown rice and in the same manner as a pilaf. Very delicious.
Sounds delicious.
I put sofrito in almost everything, but due to the ugly baliwick of carribean and hispanic nuances, my mother did not teach me any traditional panamanian meals. So for the most part, sofrito ends up in my beans. Which I eat on top of rice, like a civilized person.
Well sofrito is great in beans and rice and stews and marinades. Though each island has its own version of sofrito. Puerto Rican sofrito has the distinction of having no tomatoes in it. Instead, there are aji dulce peppers as well as recao (culantro), which give it its distinctive flavor. Some like achiote (annatto) oil in it. Personally, I have enough achiote in my sazon, so I don't need that. Also I roast all my veggies and toast my coriander seeds before processing them. More robust flavor.
I ate a lot of Puerto Rican dishes when I was younger, but was never taught them. Had to learn myself, especially since, as much as I love them, I'm the best chef in my family.
On the contrary, you put tomatoes in sofrito in Puerto Rico and you might be lynched :p
It's actually really delicious though. The roasted aji dulce peppers and recao really make the dish. Also roasted onions, roasted red pepper, and a roasted head of garlic.
And of course, cilantro. Mmmmm. I would send you some, but I'm in Florida. Sofrito doesn't keep for long.
Oh Dear GOD you people are making my mouth water. Stop It. STOP IT I SAY!!!
Recipies, or it didn't happen.
Nice discussion. I never went inside USA, pretty much because of the fear racism issues. As a outsider, i fear i could be shot at street without any warning because i am not white or something.
I am a typical Brazilian, so i can't say for sure if i would be considered black or latino (our racial stereotypes work a bit differenty), but around here people accept prettly any cultural choices you make (we are not color blind as some people claim, but most people don't associate anything by the color of the skin, only social status).
So i can't really relate to anything beside regular discrimination for being nerd, but if i ever go to USA to attend a PAIZOCON or GENCON, i can understand better what could really happen.
Trust me, it's not that bad. There is little overt violence and racism is declining. It's just occasionally you have people that can't seem to let go of that hate. But it is much much better nowadays than, say, 20 years ago or 50 years ago.
Believe me, other places have it a lot worse. My first encounter abroad was in England, where there was a sizable "Keep England for Whites" movement there. I quickly walked away.
Recipies, or it didn't happen.
When I get back from Orlando, I'll post it. Gotta go now though. Visiting Le Cordon Bleu campus.
Sweet!
sofrito with no tomatoes in it? But that's heresy onii-chan.....I'd rather eat spaghetti-os :p
Currently getting in touch with my heritage and eating my homemade Puerto Rican style rice and chicken. Everything is homemade, including the Puerto Rican style sofrito, adobo, and sazon. Made from brown rice and in the same manner as a pilaf. Very delicious.
Sounds delicious.
I put sofrito in almost everything, but due to the ugly baliwick of carribean and hispanic nuances, my mother did not teach me any traditional panamanian meals. So for the most part, sofrito ends up in my beans. Which I eat on top of rice, like a civilized person.
Well sofrito is great in beans and rice and stews and marinades. Though each island has its own version of sofrito. Puerto Rican sofrito has the distinction of having no tomatoes in it. Instead, there are aji dulce peppers as well as recao (culantro), which give it its distinctive flavor. Some like achiote (annatto) oil in it. Personally, I have enough achiote in my sazon, so I don't need that. Also I roast all my veggies and toast my coriander seeds before processing them. More robust flavor.
I ate a lot of Puerto Rican dishes when I was younger, but was never taught them. Had to learn myself, especially since, as much as I love them, I'm the best chef in my family.
On the contrary, you put tomatoes in sofrito in Puerto Rico and you might be lynched :p
It's actually really delicious though. The roasted aji dulce peppers and recao really make the dish. Also roasted onions, roasted red pepper, and a roasted head of garlic.
And of course, cilantro. Mmmmm. I would send you some, but I'm in Florida. Sofrito doesn't keep for long.
if only it did...I would love to try.
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Trust me, it's not that bad. There is little overt violence and racism is declining. It's just occasionally you have people that can't seem to let go of that hate. But it is much much better nowadays than, say, 20 years ago or 50 years ago.
Believe me, other places have it a lot worse. My first encounter abroad was in England, where there was a sizable "Keep England for Whites" movement there. I quickly walked away.
I guess i am really not used to any form of racism. I am a oddball even by Brazilian standards, because my family is mostly white (by our standards) but i am mixed race. I never had any racial identity until i got in contact with other countries cultures, and i perceived that people of my skin color were not treated well there. So, i never really experienced racism and i don't know what it feels like, and even small bit might shock me, but it can't be helped.
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The teachers do sound like they were bad, but I would hazard that your neighborhood was far more affluent than his.I have very different experiences than jemstone it appears. I grew up first in a religious community then later in one of those prosperous lily white schools districts with only a few black kids. Those black kids were accepted and treated very well both by school staff and other kids. They all went on to college and white collar careers right along side their white friends. Well except for one boy who got himself killed in a traffic accident while showing off. Maybe there were some bad teachers at jemstone's school? And how on earth would a few bad teachers end the friendships between the parents?
You would be correct, sir.
Poverty, as they say, is a hell of a drug.
If you were to look at the neighborhood I grew up in, in which my mother still lives, as it is today? You'd never know that when I was a kid, the local police wouldn't come through our neighborhood after nightfall. They'd let the Sheriff handle any issues, or they'd come out in the morning when there was daylight. You wouldn't know that four doors down from where I was sleeping one night at age six, a man who was certain his wife was cheating on him with another man took a shotgun, blasted four holes in the door of the suspected apartment, walked upstairs to the bedroom, and emptied the remainder of the shells through the wall to the bedroom itself - now, thankfully, the apartment in question was vacant at the time, but the truth of the matter was that his wife was sleeping with other men (Everyone knew it) and she was doing it to get extra cash to feed her family because all her husband did was sit around, drink, smoke, and complain. When they took him to prison, her life got better, because suddenly there was no more fear of him, no more spending money on him, and she was able to feed her kids on the two jobs she worked.
I've thought a lot about what happened to my friends, and why they stopped coming over to play, or why I stopped getting invited to their houses. The reason my friends stopped being friendly wasn't so much that I was getting better grades, or that I was white. It was because they saw that all of their efforts hitting a wall - a wall that, for better or worse, did exist and had doors shaped just like me in them. They busted their asses just as hard as I did, and all they got for it was mediocre returns and occasional advancement. They could see that the system was rigged, and it broke them.
It wasn't that they stopped liking me. They liked me just fine. But I represented something awful to them, in time. Through no fault of my own, I became a reminder to them that their best would never be as good as my half-hearted attempts. It wasn't that they stopped liking me. They just "didn't want" to play with me any more. And I can't blame them. How awful must it have been to see that no matter what they did, they could never belong in the crowd of smart kids at school?
I actually threw a paper, once, the same way one throws a boxing match. I purposely did my worst. I still got a B. When I pointed out, in all the righteous indignation that my 12 year old self could muster, that my friend had done a lot more work on his paper than I had, and he only got a C, my teacher said something about how the expectations that were on me weren't as high as they were on him, and he should do much better than that to get a decent grade.
That disgusted me in a way that sticks with me even now. It's not right, and it's not fair, and it's not something I ever wish to perpetuate.
And... I suppose to bring this around to how it influenced my nerdity, I guess that's what got me interested in anthropology, cultural and ethnic drift, and a lot of other geo-social sciences. And maybe it's why my default fantasy game world only has about 20% of its population as anything approaching Caucasian, with the remaining 80% being various shades and stripes of color. You know. Like the real world.
Dunno. I just know it really truly does unsettle a lot of players in games I run at conventions, or who are new to my game groups, when I give them the player materials and they see that a plurality of the game world's people are not white. Watching them try to wrap their heads around that idea (and many times, fail) really makes me sad.
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Where I was raised there was no racism.
I'm not really sure you can know that for certain if you're white.
...
Where I was raised there was no racism.I'm not really sure you can know that for certain if you're white.
I was going to write something about needless qualifiers, unnecessary redirection, racist assumptions, and speaking before thinking. Instead I think I will just step away from the boards for a day.
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Where I was raised there was no racism.I'm not really sure you can know that for certain if you're white.
I'd have to disagree with this statement. I think it is possible to see or experience racism or any kind of strife despite your skin color. Had a white friend that was put in the hospital by this group of black gangster wannabes because they essentially hated white people and he "looked at them funny". When it comes to poverty, we often forget that everyone is affected by it. I saw plenty of (sorry for the term) "white trash" where I lived, trying to scratch a living out of poverty. Dated my high school sweetheart who was the trailer park princess and her parents were meth cooks. She's doing well now at least.
And now I wanna get back onto the subject of grits.
Where I was raised there was no racism.I'm not really sure you can know that for certain if you're white.
The way I read this was that there was no racism because everyone was white and thus perhaps no context or extant subject to see racism in action.
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It was later as I started going to cons and fan events that I began to notice that I WAS the odd person out. At the time all I wanted to do was blend in. I didn't want to be noticed for what I looked like. I just wanted to play. Sometimes it worked out great. Other times (especially when it came to FRPG's) it didn't. I'll never forget the time that I had to explain to a GM that my Half-Elf Ranger PC was dark-skinned and he just couldn't wrap his head around the fact how that could happen. He could fathom that an elf would be attracted to and be intimate with a dark skinned human to produce a child. He couldn't do it. Was it magic? Nope. Was the human in disguise as an elf? Nope. Was it rape? What?!? NO!! I left that game eventually and I want to say that was the only time that that sort of thing happened but it wasn't.
>:(
I've heard variations of this exact issue with the player races before and it never stops being infuriating. It's yet another reason why having a healthy spread of skin tones for the player races is important.
I am a teacher and I work at a school that draws from all over Los Angeles. We have students of every color and class. It made me sad to hear about some of the educational experiences above. If things are done right, one of the benefits of a school with no dominant race or class (rich/middle class/poor) is that kids soon stop classifying themselves by race. Everyone hangs out with everyone. Its nice to see when it happens and it becomes unusual when it does not happen... and yes as a white person I can spot racism and sexism and bullying and ... pretty much anything that would cause you to say "that person is a jerk".
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Racism is always there,under the surface, regardless of who or "what" you are in contrast to those around you. In Miami some of my classmates in Rabbinical school were paranoid that the blacks and latinos were out to kill them, on the streets, some latino and black folks would give me the Nazi salute and throw rocks while walking my sister home from school. Neither side questioned their own fear/ignorance when confronted by me and my obvious dominican features. Idiots are always waiting in the wings to show you how stupid they really are..
And black/brown nerds are not a new thing. Our D&D club in high school (circa 94') was 50% black and/or hispanic.
Hey, you're gonna report back and tell us if you liked 'em, right?I believe the Bob Evans chain does, as does the Cracker Barrel chain.Now I want to try grits. I wonder if I can find a place that serves it.
Thanks that's a big help.
Sure just give me a chance to get into a Cracker Barrel. Between my boyfriend's plans and my work load it may take a few days for an opportunity to present itself.
Where I was raised there was no racism.I'm not really sure you can know that for certain if you're white.
While there weren't a large number of non-whites in the area there WERE some. The black family that lived two doors down from us was very nice. He was a very successful surgeon and everyone loved his wife and six kids. I was always treated as one of his own kids when I was over at their house to hang out with his middle daughter (the one who was my age). I never heard anyone anywhere ever say a bad thing about him. And I am not blind I can tell when someone is being treated poorly. No one in either of our families had anything bad to say when I dated his youngest son too. They all thought we were a good match. BUT outside our neighborhood... We would sometimes be treated horribly by both blacks and whites while on dates. There are people who really really take issue with interracial couples. Nasty comments we over hear in passing or getting miserable service at certain restaurants even the way some people would look at us. Now this wasn't the norm. Most of the time we weren't treated poorly... in fact if the people we encountered knew he was a football player and I was a cheerleader we sometimes actually got preferential treatment.
I'll never forget the time that I had to explain to a GM that my Half-Elf Ranger PC was dark-skinned and he just couldn't wrap his head around the fact how that could happen. He could fathom that an elf would be attracted to and be intimate with a dark skinned human to produce a child. He couldn't do it. Was it magic? Nope. Was the human in disguise as an elf? Nope. Was it rape? What?!? NO!! I left that game eventually and I want to say that was the only time that that sort of thing happened but it wasn't.He seriously made those question? that is awful.
Ignorant fool. There is a AD&D canonical dark-skinned half-elf: Maquest Kar Thon. She appears in second book of Dragonlance Chronicles (if my memory serves me right) which places her appearance in 1985.
She had to hide her heritage due to local racial prejudice. No, not her dark skin - her elven blood.
Also, unlike in Tanis case she wasn't fruit of rape as far as we can tell from her backstory but I hadn't read her own book.
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Hmmm, people around here used to think white people were white because they were sick. But they weren't treated bad, they were offered food and stay so they could became healthy. Most people confused this with just the locals being friendly and hospitable.
My friend told me that when his (great?) grandfather emigrated from Norway, he completely freaked out the first time he saw a black person. He thought the guy had some serious skin disease going on.
I'll never forget the time that I had to explain to a GM that my Half-Elf Ranger PC was dark-skinned and he just couldn't wrap his head around the fact how that could happen. He could fathom that an elf would be attracted to and be intimate with a dark skinned human to produce a child. He couldn't do it. Was it magic? Nope. Was the human in disguise as an elf? Nope. Was it rape? What?!? NO!! I left that game eventually and I want to say that was the only time that that sort of thing happened but it wasn't.He seriously made those question? that is awful.Ignorant fool. There is a AD&D canonical dark-skinned half-elf: Maquest Kar Thon. She appears in second book of Dragonlance Chronicles (if my memory serves me right) which places her appearance in 1985.
She had to hide her heritage due to local racial prejudice. No, not her dark skin - her elven blood.
Also, unlike in Tanis case she wasn't fruit of rape as far as we can tell from her backstory but I hadn't read her own book.
dragonlance was always ahead of the times. Its why I love it so in every incarnation.
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White people can experience racism too. I'm white and from the south. Fortunately didn't spend enough of my time there as a youth to pick it up but I was on the receiving end of it going to middle school in HI (try "Kill Haole Day"). When I moved back to the south (Alabama) in 8th grade I wanted nothing to do with the whites who were engaging in racism...but I sometimes found myself on the receiving end of racist treatment from blacks. Even so, the majority of blacks and whites got along pretty well. The worst of both sides did not prevail.
The whole thing is silly. There are so many *legitimate* reasons we can discriminate against each other (like who plays Pathfinder versus D&D!) there's no need to stick to silly micro-fractional genetic differences. :)
Race has very little place at my games. You treat the other players with respect and there will be no Balkanisation.
In Melbourne you get a lot of Asian gamers, in addition to the white/Anglo crowd. Aboriginals haven't been exposed to dnd (a real shame given the heroic Dreamtime adventures that could be possible, the rainbow serpent is going to have a massive CR). You do get some Indians, Greeks, Italians and Middle Eastern players. Greeks and Italians can be very homebound and over-mothered, so they are players. A few jokes is fine, and some whites use it as a place to vent racial concerns, but I have lost patience for that.
Except if we are playing a Vietnam game. Then you may kill the gooks. ;)
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true stuff
Aranna's post prompted some reflection on my part about the nature of experience and how it intersects with privilege and isms.
I think we tend to notice stuff that affects us personally, and we tend not to notice, or to discount, things that don't. So a white woman will probably have a higher awareness of the misogynistic variety of sexism, whereas a black man probably has a higher awareness of racism.
It seems almost obvious, but so often it gets ignored, that our individual experiences shape the way we view the world. For instance, if racism affects us, we perceive racism in the world.
This is not to invalidate anyone's experience, or to suggest that racism, sexism, etc. aren't actually problems. Quite the opposite: we should strive to remember that just because our own experiences don't involve the problems faced by others, that we should assume they don't face them. Other people have problems we don't experience and can't, as a result, fully understand.
The question is just if we are allowed to discuss or act on things without "fully understanding them". If not, every doctor specializing in substance abuse needs to have gone through heroin rehab, everyone working with racism needs to be of a minority, and so on. I hope that's not what you mean, Charlie?
The question is just if we are allowed to discuss or act on things without "fully understanding them".
Of course. But as St. Matthew so forcefully reminds us, "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye?"
Do not confuse what you see with what is. And do not believe that because you're unaware of it, it doesn't exist.
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What?! You guys are on because you think there was some super secret racism going on in my neighborhood that never got talked about or acted out on around others? Talk about not having proof! That is no different than saying all white people are racist just because they are white.
What?! You guys are on because you think there was some super secret racism going on in my neighborhood that never got talked about or acted out on around others? Talk about not having proof! That is no different than saying all white people are racist just because they are white.
I try to avoid thinking in such terms, Aranna, but it's not impossible that one of your neighbors was bigoted. I am a firm believer in the idea that high fences make good neighbors, and some people are very good at keeping their mouths shut about things that bother them. It doesn't mean you lived in Sandford(Hot Fuzz reference FTW!!!), but rather that the fences on some issues may have been too high for you to see over, especially as a kid.
What?! You guys are on because you think there was some super secret racism going on in my neighborhood that never got talked about or acted out on around others? Talk about not having proof! That is no different than saying all white people are racist just because they are white.
You're right, Aranna, it's totally presumptuous of me to assume without proof that you're not omniscient and that you lack the ability to, like, totally, look into the soul of everyone around you.
By the way, since you know everything, what are the numbers for next week's Powerball?
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What?! You guys are on because you think there was some super secret racism going on in my neighborhood that never got talked about or acted out on around others? Talk about not having proof! That is no different than saying all white people are racist just because they are white.
Your comment prompted a line of thought, but I wasn't directly responding to you; nor did I intend my post above to be some sort of attack on you. I just wanted to point out that for all of us, it's easy not to notice things that don't directly affect us. You notice sexism but said you weren't aware of racism in your neighborhood; Freehold DM said he felt like sexism was socially unacceptable but racism, especially covert racism, was widespread. Both perspectives are valid because they're based on different experiences. But for all of us, there are things about which we're not aware.
What?! You guys are on because you think there was some super secret racism going on in my neighborhood that never got talked about or acted out on around others? Talk about not having proof! That is no different than saying all white people are racist just because they are white.I don't know you. I don't know you're neighborhood. I do know that there are a lot of white people convinced that racism doesn't exist in areas where I know it does. Hell, I've lived in areas where I didn't see it until I had things pointed out to me by black friends.
I'm not saying your neighborhood was racist. I'm saying that I'm not going to take the word of some random white person on the internet, because it's fairly common for white people not to notice racism going on around them.
Like in this very post.
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What?! You guys are on because you think there was some super secret racism going on in my neighborhood that never got talked about or acted out on around others? Talk about not having proof! That is no different than saying all white people are racist just because they are white.
You're right, Aranna, it's totally presumptuous of me to assume without proof that you're not omniscient and that you lack the ability to, like, totally, look into the soul of everyone around you.
By the way, since you know everything, what are the numbers for next week's Powerball?
You're the one claiming to have the crystal ball or psychic powers. Clearly YOU a complete stranger on the internet knows my old neighborhood better than I do myself only having lived there. OBVIOUSLY when we went to the black families backyard BBQs it was to plot against them. When the dads all watched the game on his TV it was CLEARLY because they hated him.
Can you even see what you are saying? I wonder.
I am not even saying racism isn't real... it is. I am just saying there ARE places where it isn't practiced any more. I have seen one. I have full confidence there are a lot more than one. Do I have proof there are more than one? Nope. But I have faith in the goodness in people how can racism possibly survive in the face of goodness?
Some of you think I was blind or naive or something. But really would you do things with someone you hated? Would you involve them in your family and free time? Would you trust them with your children? I can't possibly see the hate here... how can you?
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Again, we don't know you. We're not even saying you're necessarily wrong.
All I'm saying is that it's easy for someone it's not directed at to miss things.
And it's not always hate. Sometimes it's just assumptions. Not hating black people, just assuming they're not as smart or as hard working or moral as white people. And some people will make exceptions for people they know personally. "Bob, he's a good guy. He's not like the rest of them."
If you miss the second part of that and just see him being friends with Bob, you'll think he can't be racist.Again, I've seen it myself. I've missed things myself, only to have them pointed out to me later. I've been told people and areas weren't racist only to later see for myself or learn from other people that they were. More subtly than outright hatred or shunning, but still there.
I think that addresses an issue where a lot of people who dont see racism because it's not the big broad overt gestures that they used to be. In short if there's no one openly running around saying "I hate N*gg*rs!!!" and burning crosses or lynching d00ds then there's no racism. And I can emphatically say that that's not the case. There have been cases, especially back in college but afterwards too where I've had a group of friends that I'd hang out with and when I wasn't there I'd have one of two people (usually white) who would come back and tell me some of racist crap said by other people in that group when I wasn't around.
My good friend and the best man at my wedding would tell me about times where he'd be hanging out in a group that wasn't mixed company and some of the vile stuff that was said by the people that he was with. They assumed that he was cool with it when he really wasn't. Sometimes he'd speak up and other times he wouldn't. But it bothered him so much that he was telling ME about it.
People assume that you go looking for racism when there is none because they dont see it. But when you deal with it so much (not everyday, not every week, but enough where you're suspect of certain behaviors or actions) you do develop a certain mindset which is pretty devoid of trust.