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... if a DM said to you, "OK, I'm not at all fond of meta-gaming ... and to me that includes dredging applicable fora for advice on your character's and/or party's predicament/situation between sessions. To me, it's tantamount to cheating, and you're on your honor not to do it"?
Would you: - Agree, and follow his instructions
- Disagree, either respectfully or otherwise, but nevertheless follow his instructions
- Tell him you think his directive to be out of bounds and do as you like
- Say, "I understand," and hope he doesn't notice that you didn't agree to get on board
- Find a new game because he or she is a control freak jerk-wad
- Agree wholeheartedly, and then do as you like behind his or her back—i.e., lie your ass off
Feel free to add an option if you feel I overlooked a viable response.
I'd probably agree. I've seldom found those threads to be helpful and usually watch them devolve into insults and off topic arguments.
That said, I'd be on the lookout for other directives that might indicate that they have some issues with control.
"If you feel you need to state that explicitly, I don't think I want to be part of this group."
Snorri Nosebiter wrote: "If you feel you need to state that explicitly, I don't think I want to be part of this group." Are you saying that it's tantamount to making an unjustified accusation?
I'm saying it's something that's so damned obvious that if you feel it needs to be said, I'd feel like I've stumbled into a group of G@m3rz instead of a group of RP players.
If you, as a player, feel stuck in an adventure, tell the GM, ask if he can allow your, or a character in the group, a roll on something to get an idea. It's a group happening, not some single player videogame where you "HAVE" to look up a walkthrough when you're stuck.
And yes, frankly, I'd feel insulted that the DM felt he had to tell me something like that.
Considering how often people ask for advice here, I'm more than a little surprised at your vehemence, Snorri. My question was geared more to see if the younger generation of players might find such a method perfectly acceptable, not insult anyone who wouldn't think of doing it. Honestly, it doesn't seem that offensive to me. Perhaps I'm being insensitive.
Hard for me to answer because nobody I game with would ever say something like that. It would really matter who said it and how bad I wanted to play in the game.
I don't really understand what the GM is suggesting here. Does the GM expect the players not to participate in any gaming related interactions outside of actual game time?
I would think the DM is a tool. The tone of that quot is like you're chastising children to be on the honor system and it's pretentious. If they want to talk about the game between games there is nothing you can do to stop it, so maybe if you said something like: "Hey guys, I'm really into immersion and roleplaying and one of the things that kills that is metagaming of talking about it outside the game so you can't resolve the situations organically in-character. If you could please not discuss the game outside sessions I'd really appreciate it."
So the tone would be critical to you. I understand.
Isn't going to a forum and asking for advice a lot different than just talking with fellow players?
Slightly, but its no different from talking with a friend or older sibling or parent who's not in the game about the game.
One is a lot more ... systematic than the other, isn't it?
knightnday wrote: I'd probably agree. I've seldom found those threads to be helpful and usually watch them devolve into insults and off topic arguments.
That said, I'd be on the lookout for other directives that might indicate that they have some issues with control.
Agreed. I'd consider, however, that you might want to look at advice threads on other rpg fora. Preferably a moderated forum in which people who constantly insult others are banned. You may well be pleasantly surprised.
I agree with your sentiment, though.
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Nothing wrong with the request, just the way you framed it there. It's pretty much the same, except you're going to get a lot more feedback talking about it on the forums and likely better powergame advice of how people used x strategy in a similar situation.
You could theoretically bust them if they were using a forum, but considering you have to know their alias and come across their post on the same forum, I don't know how likely this is.
Kind of reminds me of the braintrust who posted how he was having issues with his PFS DM and gave very specific details that if the guy read it (probably likely if he's in PFS and it was in Advice I think) there is no way he wouldn't know it was about him. The OP kept saying he wanted to be anonymous when it was about as subtle as a dire bull rolling a Nat 1 on stealth in a china shop.
Jaelithe wrote: Considering how often people ask for advice here, I'm more than a little surprised at your vehemence, Snorri. My question was geared more to see if the younger generation of players might find such a method perfectly acceptable, not insult anyone who wouldn't think of doing it. Honestly, it doesn't seem that offensive to me. Perhaps I'm being insensitive. you asked how I'd react. I'd react with vehemence in about that quantity to a DM asking me not to spoil the adventure by using the internet to find out things my character shouldn't know, because that makes me feel the DM thinks I'm a moron that comes to a roleplay and doesn't expect, nor wants to play the game.
if a DM finds it neccecairy to ask such questions, it says a lot about the group of players he's experienced, likely frequently. That's a sign for me that I would not enjoy being in that group.
that, and It's in my nature to feel insulted when people lob me into a "type" of people I dislike.
I just wanted to give you a fair answer. You know, in-character.
Snorri, I'm just checking here, but you do know that he wasn't just asking about players not 'spoiling a published adventure.' (In fact, as I recall Jaelithe doesn't use published adventures.)
The request posed by Jaelithe includes all manner of advice seeking with the possible exception of character creation.
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Actually, I was only referring to being in the middle of a situation, between sessions, and looking for advice from a gallery of advisors.
But you're right. I never use published adventures.
Snorri Nosebiter wrote: "If you feel you need to state that explicitly, I don't think I want to be part of this group." I totally agree!
Snorri Nosebiter wrote: I'm saying it's something that's so damned obvious that if you feel it needs to be said, I'd feel like I've stumbled into a group of G@m3rz instead of a group of RP players.
If you, as a player, feel stuck in an adventure, tell the GM, ask if he can allow your, or a character in the group, a roll on something to get an idea. It's a group happening, not some single player videogame where you "HAVE" to look up a walkthrough when you're stuck.
And yes, frankly, I'd feel insulted that the DM felt he had to tell me something like that.
...and, uhm, apparently for the exact opposite reason you do!
The metagame is a huge part of my enjoyment. And if the issue is discussing the conundrums of the game....I have to say, that's a red flag. I'm just going to assume that we're dealing with a control freak who enjoys "Pixel B~+$$ing".
I get it. The DM has constructed, in effect, a problem for the players to solve. He doesn't want the players to Google the answer.
He should be careful how he puts this to the players, or as you found out here, it may cause offence.
Are you the DM, Jaelithe?
I know there are frequent threads on RPG forums (less so on Paizo) in which a DM is constructing challenges for their players, and looking for advice on how to improve the challenge.
Usually those challenges would be hurt by PCs knowing them, and some players do have a hard time not meta-gaming.
Often, such a thread will be prefaced by "My players stay out!"
Which makes sense, because reading the thread is essentially looking at the DM's campaign notes.
I'd be more concerned if you feel the need to ban the use of forums between sessions altogether, as it would sound more like a "I want more control over you!" issue.
kyrt-ryder wrote: Snorri, I'm just checking here, but you do know that he wasn't just asking about players not 'spoiling a published adventure.' (In fact, as I recall Jaelithe doesn't use published adventures.)
The request posed by Jaelithe includes all manner of advice seeking with the possible exception of character creation.
I understood his question in the same way as Jaelithe explained it under your post.
If players need to, for a bad example, need to hunt down a Tarrasque, it'd be bad form for said player to go looking up any and all information about hunting a Tarrasque online.
get your information in-character. ask the DM if any knowledge rolls are allowed. If that fails, ask if they can find info in a library. Ask the one who gave you the mission, whatever.
Same with a puzzle. beating around the bush during gametime so you can avoid the puzzle till next session, then in second 1 give the answer you got from the thread you posted on aforum detailing said puzzle? come on...
that'sruining the game for everyone involved, and I find it strange that such behaviour would be a common enough issue that it needs to be explicitly forbidden by the DM.
it's like telling your kids not to murder anyone each day before they go to school... DUH!
Malachi Silverclaw wrote: I get it. The DM has constructed, in effect, a problem for the players to solve. He doesn't want the players to Google the answer.
He should be careful how he puts this to the players, or as you found out here, it may cause offence.
Are you the DM, Jaelithe?
Actually, no. It was just a question I thought of. I'm not currently an active DM.
That's probably why the comments about the DM being a "tool," and other colorful descriptions, are amusing rather than insulting. :)
no problem, i never get outside help anyway and in published material it can be cheating
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