Tower shield specialist easily get 40 ac and have a 28+ touch ac to boot. then add on the ability of feats to add ac to party members and it makes parties impossible to even damage in scenarios.
take a tower shield specialist level 8 (human)
12 str
24 dex (10 pt build=16 +2 human, +2 4th and 8th levels)+4 from belt
14 con
10 int
14 wis
8 cha exact spending not important--but 24 dex easily achievable
+4 mithril plate armor
+4 tower shield
+2 ring of protection
wayfinder with clear spindle ioun stone---or use mind buffering armor
feats
shield focus
shield proficiency
greater shield focus
shield specialization
combat reflexes
weapon finesse
agile maneuvers
he gets to take -3 ac penalty and +2 dex from mithril. and -4 to ac penalty and +3 dex from armor training. so overall he can have take 7 off the ac penalty
so he can benefit from +6 dex even with full plate and tower shield.
+13 armor
+10 shield (+4+4+1+1)
+6 dex
+2 ring
10
gives him a 41 ac at 8th level. and 28 for touch ac. They are untouchable. then with the shawl they can give a party member the + 10 ac for 9 minutes and give ac bonuses to everyone around them.
Not sure exactly what feat the one person was using but could actually give +10 ac to someone adjacent
sorry at level 8--41 ac with 28 touch ac--is just broken. What tiny fraction of a percent of monsters at those levels of scenarios can hit that?
a tower shield specialist should never get to apply shield to touch. heck trying to hit a tower shield specialist with shocking grasp should be EASIER. the + 3 is way offset by the + 10 from shield and getting to add full dex.
all they should get is the minus to ac penalty and cover from burst on relex checks
all that metal should make them almost a +10 to hit with shocking grasp
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why nerf it ?
throw area effect spells, compulsions at him instead....
if a creature attacks him a few times and doesnt hit ( or cant)
its gonna move on to next person.
dont let one cheesy build throw you off.
dont forget the character will still loose dex if suprised...
maybe BBEG will sunder his fancy armor/shield...
there are spells to make charatcer loose the shield also
grease/monkey swarm ect....
and lets not forget the horrible will saves of fighters...
First, audit that character. He's got about double appropriate wealth by level, just from what's listed, which doesn't include weapons, cloak of resistance, etc.
Second, with that build, he won't be doing much else besides not getting hit.
why nerf it ?
throw area effect spells, compulsions at him instead....
if a creature attacks him a few times and doesnt hit ( or cant)
its gonna move on to next person.dont let one cheesy build throw you off.
dont forget the character will still loose dex if suprised...
maybe BBEG will sunder his fancy armor/shield...
there are spells to make charatcer loose the shield also
grease/monkey swarm ect....
and lets not forget the horrible will saves of fighters...
clear spindle ioun stone in wayfinder in PFS and mind buffering armor outside of pfs--almost totally negate the will saves
sundering a +4 tower shield takes a LOT of doing--if you can hit--he gets his dex on cmd twice as well as his shield specialization bonus--huge CMD also.
he gets bonus to aoes that allow reflex saves thanks to shield
moving on would be great--but he gives excellent ac to all around him also. at least the sacred shield paladin is limited in how often he can protect those around him
He's kind of useless really. Even with mithrilnarmour he probably also hits like a wet noodle. Additionally playing the char to the point he could do that would be painful.
sundering a +4 tower shield takes a LOT of doing--if you can hit--he gets his dex on cmd twice as well as his shield specialization bonus--huge CMD also.
I hope you don't think Agile Maneuvers lets you add double Dex to CMD. It doesn't.
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Nerfing Tower Shields won't solve anything. It's possible the achieve ACs comparable to that through several methods. Allow me to demonstrate one of them:
Pistolero 9 / Alchemist 1
Base - 10
Dex - 6
Celestial Armor - 9
+2 Mithral Buckler - 3
Ring of protection - 2
Nimble - 2
Dodge - 1
Jingasa - 1
Ioun Stone - 1
Total - 35
Touch - 23
After buffing:
Dex Mutagen - 4
Haste - 1
Fighting Defensively - 3
Total - 43
Touch - 29
Slotted - Clear Spindle Ioun stone (now one bad will save won't kill the party)
I've achieved a comparable AC, while still moving at max speed, and outputting Gunslinger levels of damage. I also didn't have to devote an entire build to this, the only feat this build uses that isn't "standard" is Dodge.
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sundering a +4 tower shield takes a LOT of doing--if you can hit--he gets his dex on cmd twice as well as his shield specialization bonus--huge CMD also.
Why would he get DEX to CMD twice?
Not from Agile Maneuvers -- that replaces DEX for STR in CMB, but not in CMD.
EDIT: Ninja'd...and it's not even raining
As a note that particular archetype has some issues.
Most notably that as written it's really bad because the max dex increase only applies to armor and not to the tower shield.
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So I take it this was a PFS character? I'm not sure this type of post belongs in the PFS forums otherwise:
I took a quick pass at this myself. As others have mentioned, there's several other ways to get AC like this. There's ways around it. And the damage is going to be lower than a strength build (You didn't list all the feats, I'm assuming a light weapon, Piranha Strike, and Weapon Specialization at least). But here's a few problems with the build you posted:
-That's a LOT of gold. Over 66,000 from armor, shield, belt, and ring alone. A +1 Agile weapon is another 8000 minimum. I don't see how he can have that much.
-(edit) Adding shield bonus to touch AC is a 9th level ability, he wouldn't have it at 8th.
-What shawl are you talking about?
-The big problem is encumbrance. With that strength the armor and shield alone are going to put him into medium encumbrance. Add in a weapon and a backpack minimum - you're veering close to a heavy load. That's gonna put a serious crimp in the AC.
As a note that particular archetype has some issues.
Most notably that as written it's really bad because the max dex increase only applies to armor and not to the tower shield.
That's a really good point. Ouch.
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you might be able to sidestep some of the weight issue by making him a dwarf - but that reduces the DEX .... and introduces other issues.
IMHO- There is no way this character could have grown in PFS... and even as a Judge Credit Baby he would still be hard pressed to come up with the money.
Gods help him if he faces shadows... or anything else that attacks touch ACs... or grabs...
My 14 Level Towershield using full plate wearing cleric doesn't have that much money tied up in his armor/shield...
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Just Bullrush into water...
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As a note that particular archetype has some issues.
Most notably that as written it's really bad because the max dex increase only applies to armor and not to the tower shield.
The author of the archetype intended for it to apply to both the armor and the shield.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mqmz?Tower-Shield-Specialist-wording-clerifica tion#5
Yes, he is not a Paizo employee and cannot issue official FAQ responses - but as he intended it to apply to both I see no reason it would not.
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It seems impossible to get ALL that @8th. I don't have that hideous des but I can hit a 39 with a potion and expertise/defensive fight. Not able to do much to hit though. I have had big hitters try and walk by me in open areas when I do. (Usually look for 'choke points to turtle down).
Definitely don't. See how you can afford ANYTHING after +4 Mithril plate (I got +2 half plate and dark wood tower and I'm light on a LOt of essential items in my eyes)
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you might be able to sidestep some of the weight issue by making him a dwarf - but that reduces the DEX .... and introduces other issues.
The dwarf racial trait only affects speed, not maximum dexterity of encumbrance.
Gods help him if he faces shadows... or anything else that attacks touch ACs... or grabs...
-The 9th level ability to add his shield bonus to touch AC gives him a pretty big touch AC. Higher than almost any unbuffed build.
Monk fighting defensively using flurry o' trips
Str 7
Dex 26(18+2 race, two stat bumps, belt+4)
Con14
Wis 18(+2 headband)
int 7
cha 7
Feats
Dodge
crane style
Imp trip
-
Weapon finesse
combat ref
-plus more
Just from the stats 22 AC
Fighting defensively +3
Monk bonus +2
Dodge feat +1
Ring of prot +2
mage armor +4(needs help using the wand)
dusty rose ioune stone +1
Mistmail 20% miss chance
Now this is not quite 40. But triping with an agile amulet of mighty fists can do decent amount of damage and debuff with trips. I am sure others can improve what I put
Because it is a PFS character---guess he only has +2 armor--but still hellacious ac
I have to GM for him and it makes it rediculous. THey did King of Storvall Stairs and he stood in middle with his +3 tower shield with arrow attraction on it--and their ranged butchered the mobs.
As a GM, the friggin AC power creep has gotten rediculous. I am at 95+ games GMed and ready to quit because everytime I GM anymore I need 20s to hit half the party.
SO do I always focus on the other half?--unfair to them because they didn't powerbuild AC? Or just disgustedly basically call every fight? GMed level 5-9 scenario a week ago at levels 5-6. With 5 players at the board in three of the four encounters the lowest number I could roll and still hit any one of the 5 was a 19. The most damage done to the players in the scenario was when the paladin fell off the wall and took 9 points of falling damage.
AC and power creep killed D& D and it is killing Pathfinder. When your GM can never even hit you--the GM feels it is pointless even rolling. Better to have a high dps group with a fight that only lasts 2 rounds and the GM does 2 rounds of damage than a high AC group that lasts 6 rounds and the GM never hits.
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So what if this guy has uber AC?
What is he going to do as his party is killed around him since the NPCs can't hit him and decide to attack his teammates instead?
Threaten them with harsh language from behind his wall of metal?
-j
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That build has invested everything they've got into AC. I don't see it as much of a problem.
Also, I believe Tower Shield Specialist doesn't get their shield bonus to Touch AC until 9th level.
Some things in the 8-9 or 10-11 tiers can hit an AC 41, and there's always the chance of a crit.
I'm not sure where the +10 AC to an ally comes from. That's possible, but it takes more than just one feat. Maybe you're thinking of Saving Shield? I can see how that could be confused to think it gives an ally your shield bonus, but it's a flat +2 shield bonus, not your full shield bonus. Bodyguard combined with things to improve Aid Another, combined with Benevolent armor could get a character to a point where they're handing out +10 ACs, but again, there's an investment in being able to do that. And, it takes an AoO per attack to do so.
A Clear Spindle ioun stone in a wayfinder doesn't protect against Confusion, which seems to be pretty common among BBEGs in PFS.
It's a build that can make things difficult for the bad guys, but nowhere near as scenario breaking as most damage dealing optimized builds at 8th or 9th level.
As a note that particular archetype has some issues.
Most notably that as written it's really bad because the max dex increase only applies to armor and not to the tower shield.
The author of the archetype intended for it to apply to both the armor and the shield.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mqmz?Tower-Shield-Specialist-wording-clerifica tion#5
Yes, he is not a Paizo employee and cannot issue official FAQ responses - but as he intended it to apply to both I see no reason it would not.
I think we can all agree that it's intended to apply to both and should apply to both.
Unfortunately in RAW land it does not.
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Because it is a PFS character---guess he only has +2 armor--but still hellacious ac
I have to GM for him and it makes it rediculous. THey did King of Storvall Stairs and he stood in middle with his +3 tower shield with arrow attraction on it--and their ranged butchered the mobs.
As a GM, the friggin AC power creep has gotten rediculous. I am at 95+ games GMed and ready to quit because everytime I GM anymore I need 20s to hit half the party.
SO do I always focus on the other half?--unfair to them because they didn't powerbuild AC? Or just disgustedly basically call every fight? GMed level 5-9 scenario a week ago at levels 5-6. With 5 players at the board in three of the four encounters the lowest number I could roll and still hit any one of the 5 was a 19. The most damage done to the players in the scenario was when the paladin fell off the wall and took 9 points of falling damage.
AC and power creep killed D& D and it is killing Pathfinder. When your GM can never even hit you--the GM feels it is pointless even rolling. Better to have a high dps group with a fight that only lasts 2 rounds and the GM does 2 rounds of damage than a high AC group that lasts 6 rounds and the GM never hits.
Okay.. first off. To best get an AC in the 40s.. you're going to need to fight defensively AND Combat Expertise. That will be an AWESOME hit on their ability to hit. My TSS has an 18 Str and a +1 Bastard Sword.. she can hit but not often. At 8th level going 'full turtle' I'm looking at a +6/+1 to hit.. but I have a 38 AC before popping Potions/Buffs.
Yeah.. I'm hard to hit.. BUT I don't hit well in full turtle. A reasonable AC on the behalf of their opponents makes it hard for the TSS to hit and turtle. And well, if you don't hit.. you're not going to be a problem in fight.
Secondly. There are a LOT of things you can do that dont require a hit roll. Will saves (even with the clear spindle) aren't going to be easy. Autohit spells (magic missile, AoE spells.) Environmental effects (Darkness, Deeper Darkness, ect)
The point I'm trying to make is, depending on the scenario, you DO have options. Stoval Stair.. I'm sorry, you took the wrong approach with him. And yeah.. I've had GMs use the other players to lure my TSS into situations that leave them vulnerable. If the BBEG can't hit.. well Mr. 'McSquishyspellcaster' behind him IS fair game.
And let me tell you.. there are THINGS that can hit a 40+ AC in the 7-11 tier easily. And hard.
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The "super high AC" train does seem to be more prevalent today than it was even a year ago, although it has always had some presence.
I am currently playing through Eyes of the Ten with a ranged Paladin that has a 21 AC (+1 Mithral Shirt only). Her defense is not deflecting attacks but having insane Saves and being able to heal 400 HP on average every day (4x her total HP) as a swift action, with another 280 HP outside of combat. All I had to do to get that was to pick an Archetype and invest in 1 feat.
To be honest I am glad I did not invest in AC when, during the last session, one of the "Super AC Tanks" in my party (which is basically everyone but my character) nearly died after missing a save on a spell that would have required him to pay for a True Res or a Wish to get his character back (a 1/session re-roll saved him).
High AC is great, except when you have a less than a 50% chance of making saves against save-or-retire spells that a slotted Clear Spindle Ioun Stone does not defend against. Even at level 8, per the OP, I question the value of sinking so many resources into not getting hit.
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Throwing everything the OP mentions (and later corrects) into Hero Lab, I come up with this:
Unnamed Hero
Human Fighter (Tower Shield Specialist) 9
Medium humanoid (human)
Init +7; Senses Perception +2
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Defense
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AC 35, touch 24, flat-footed 32 (+11 armor, +9 shield, +3 Dex, +2 deflection)
hp 76 (9d10+18)
Fort +8, Ref +10 (+2 vs burst spells and effects while using a tower shield, +1 vs burst spells and effects while using a tower shield), Will +5 (+2 trait bonus vs. charm and compulsion effects)
Defensive Abilities burst barrier, tower shield defense
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Offense
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Speed 20 ft.
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Statistics
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Str 12, Dex 24, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 8
Base Atk +9; CMB +16; CMD 35
Feats Agile Maneuvers, Combat Reflexes, Greater Shield Focus, Shield Focus, Shield Specialization, Weapon Finesse
Traits armor expert, free spirit
Skills
Languages Common
SQ armor training 2, tower shield specialist, tower shield training
Other Gear +2 mithral full plate, +3 arrow catching darkwood tower shield, belt of incredible dexterity +4, ioun stone (clear spindle), mantle of the protector, ring of protection +2, wayfinder, 150 gp
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Special Abilities
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Agile Maneuvers Use DEX instead of STR for CMB
Armor Expert -1 Armor check penalty.
Burst Barrier +2 (Ex) +2 on Reflex saves vs burst spells and effects while using a tower shield.
Combat Reflexes (8 AoO/round) Can make extra attacks of opportunity/rd, and even when flat-footed.
Free Spirit You embody the independent spirit of the River Kingdoms and do best when sailing under your own flag, in every sense. You gain a +2 trait bonus on Will saves to avoid charm and compulsion effects.
Ioun stone (clear spindle) Sustains bearer without food or water.
Mantle of the protector Lend to ally and they can activate it and gain your armor and shield bonus for 10 minutes.
Shield Focus +1 Shield AC
Shield Specialization (Tower Shield) You have mastered the use of one type of shield.
Prerequisites: Proficiency with selected shield, Shield Focus, fighter level 4th.
Benefit: Choose one type of shield (buckler, light, heavy, or tower shield). With the selected shie
Tower Shield Defense (Ex) Gain shield bonus to touch AC while using a tower shield.
Tower Shield Specialist (Ex) Do not suffer penalty to attack rolls from using a tower shield.
Tower Shield Training 2 (Ex) Worn tower shield -4 check penalty, +3 max DEX.
tl;dr
AC: 35 / 24 Tch / 32 Fl
There are still 5 Feats left, which would likely be some combination of Dodge, Saving Shield, Missile Shield, and if the player wants to patch the obvious weakness, Iron Will and Improved Iron Will.
Total gear value: 71,580gp (or 59,380gp if I'm guessing wrong on the shoulder slot)
+3 Arrow Catching Darkwood Tower Shield 16630gp
Belt of Incredible Dexterity 16000gp
+2 Mithral Full Plate 14500gp
Mantle of the protector 12,200gp
Ring of Protection +2 8000gp
Clear Spindle Ioun Stone 4000gp
Wayfinder 250gp
My guess on the shawl alluded to:
At the start of each day, the owner of a mantle of the protector may spend 10 minutes attuning the mantle to his armor and shield. He may then lend his attuned mantle to an ally, who can activate it as an immediate action at any time to gain the owner's armor and shield bonus as well as any other special properties the armor may have for 10 minutes. When the mantle is activated this way, the owner's armor and shield go dormant, and he loses any benefits they may provide for 1 minute.
He has to give the cloak to an ally, who would then be using it in place of whatever is normally in their shoulder slot. If activated, the shield specialist would lose the benefit of his armor and shield for 1 minute.
I assume the player is passing it around to people prior to a combat so they get the benefit for 9 minutes (waiting for the 1 minute he's lost his armor to expire). I'm also guessing they 'assume' that once they've gained the benefit, they don't need to continue wearing the cloak and swap back out for their normal shoulder slot item. Maybe the shield specialist has a cloak of resistance he puts on after using that trick.
Not included in that: any weapons, consumables, or other gear.
My calculated average WBL for a level 9 character is between 62000gp and 73000gp.
The character has medium encumbrance (63.5lbs--43 is his max for light encumbrance), again, with no other gear.
Either the details are fuzzy (entirely possible, as I doubt the OP has access to his character sheet) or an audit is in order. Likely some combination of the two.
I am pretty sure that with all the moeny this guy have you can make considerable more stronger characters.
Why can someone not build for defense. This is like crane style all over again.
If you want to know where this is really a problem its with Zeb archers. Crazy saves, AC and their to hit and damage output is still super solid. My level 11 Zen archer usually has 41 ac, which he can boost to 44 as a swift action and a ki, and I get an additional +4 once per round. My low save is around 15 while my high is around 20 (+5 vs spells). And unlike the posted build I still usually hit a lot and hit hard.
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if that's how the player wants to build their pc, more power to them. If they and the party still manage to have fun with it so be it.
I have played and gmed a number of times where at least 1 player shows up with some sort of build along those lines that make it not fun.
But when that player goes out of his way to showboat, I make sure to comment on it.
" Hmmm... perhaps we should bring some chairs with us for the next
encounter."
" Looks like I won't be using up any consumables this adventure."
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if that's how the player wants to build their pc, more power to them. If they and the party still manage to have fun with it so be it.
I have played and gmed a number of times where at least 1 player shows up with some sort of build along those lines that make it not fun.
But when that player goes out of his way to showboat, I make sure to comment on it.
" Hmmm... perhaps we should bring some chairs with us for the next
encounter."
" Looks like I won't be using up any consumables this adventure."
And a min-maxed support build is certainly the least of such evils.
Nonetheless, if the GM isn't having any fun, they have every right to voice their opinion and ask a player to tone it down. The player has a right to ignore that request. And the GM has the right to stop running games for that player.
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if that's how the player wants to build their pc, more power to them. If they and the party still manage to have fun with it so be it.
I have played and gmed a number of times where at least 1 player shows up with some sort of build along those lines that make it not fun.
But when that player goes out of his way to showboat, I make sure to comment on it.
" Hmmm... perhaps we should bring some chairs with us for the next
encounter."
" Looks like I won't be using up any consumables this adventure."
Depends on how you play it. My TSS is a wall. She steps up between the squishes and the bad guys, she brings gear for them (pathfinder chronicles for assisting research, extra tools, items they might need) stepping over to Dirty Trick/sunder items/Flank Assist.
Very much a team player. I don't dominate, I play like a Tank. I interpose to let more effective damager types to shine. I block access to the healer, glass cannons and do what I can to keep the rest of the group alive. That means I carry wands, scrolls and potions for then as well as myself.
She took Apsis Hunter to fight a foe of the society, she regards her role in most expeditions is to keep the 'sages' and experts alive to their more important tasks.
And I just realized another thing that the TSS you're dealing with might not know how to handle.. Swarms.
Assuming that the character mentioned above really has what OP claims, there would still apply the remaining acp from tower shield to his weapon finesse (at level 8 it would be -6 if using darkwood tower shield (tower shield is never made of metal!) and mithral full plate; since if I read it correctly, tower shield training only reduces Armor penalty; not from the shield), making him even less likely to hit, let alone deal any damage unless his finesse weapon is also Agile. I'm currently unable to dive into the crunchy bits, but if above calculations are correct, he would seem to have too much wealth for 8th level character - especially for PFS character.
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Assuming that the character mentioned above really has what OP claims, there would still apply the remaining acp from tower shield to his weapon finesse (at level 8 it would be -6 if using darkwood tower shield (tower shield is never made of metal!) and mithral full plate; since if I read it correctly, tower shield training only reduces Armor penalty; not from the shield), making him even less likely to hit, let alone deal any damage unless his finesse weapon is also Agile. I'm currently unable to dive into the crunchy bits, but if above calculations are correct, he would seem to have too much wealth for 8th level character - especially for PFS character.
How does this work? Since when did ACP apply to ATTACK Rolls?
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Assuming that the character mentioned above really has what OP claims, there would still apply the remaining acp from tower shield to his weapon finesse (at level 8 it would be -6 if using darkwood tower shield (tower shield is never made of metal!) and mithral full plate; since if I read it correctly, tower shield training only reduces Armor penalty; not from the shield), making him even less likely to hit, let alone deal any damage unless his finesse weapon is also Agile. I'm currently unable to dive into the crunchy bits, but if above calculations are correct, he would seem to have too much wealth for 8th level character - especially for PFS character.How does this work? Since when did ACP apply to ATTACK Rolls?
Since as far as 3.5 D&D, weapon finesse has worked like this: (Quote from PF PRD)
Weapon Finesse (Combat)
You are trained in using your agility in melee combat, as opposed to brute strength.
Benefit: With a light weapon, rapier, whip, or spiked chain made for a creature of your size category, you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on attack rolls. If you carry a shield, its armor check penalty applies to your attack rolls.
Special: Natural weapons are considered light weapons.
Emphasis mine.
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Assuming that the character mentioned above really has what OP claims, there would still apply the remaining acp from tower shield to his weapon finesse (at level 8 it would be -6 if using darkwood tower shield (tower shield is never made of metal!) and mithral full plate; since if I read it correctly, tower shield training only reduces Armor penalty; not from the shield), making him even less likely to hit, let alone deal any damage unless his finesse weapon is also Agile. I'm currently unable to dive into the crunchy bits, but if above calculations are correct, he would seem to have too much wealth for 8th level character - especially for PFS character.How does this work? Since when did ACP apply to ATTACK Rolls?Since as far as 3.5, weapon finesse has worked like this: (Quote from PF PRD)
Emphasis mine.Weapon Finesse (Combat)
You are trained in using your agility in melee combat, as opposed to brute strength.
Benefit:[ With a light weapon, rapier, whip, or spiked chain made for a creature of your size category, you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on attack rolls. If you carry a shield, its armor check penalty applies to your attack rolls.
Special: Natural weapons are considered light weapons.
well live and learn.. but then I never use finese and a sheild unless it's a buckler anyway.
BUT Tower Shield Training would pare some of that down for sure.
Indeed, I've already included tower shield training into that -6 ACP. IF I read it correctly, it only reduces Armor Penalty by -3. Could be I'm interpreting it wrong, in which case my Tower Shield Specialist5/Inquisitor2+ would joy :3
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Indeed, I've already included tower shield training into that -6 ACP. IF I read it correctly, it only reduces Armor Penalty by -3. Could be I'm interpreting it wrong, in which case my Tower Shield Specialist5/Inquisitor2+ would joy :3
I'm still trying to figure out how to afford Mithril Plate..that ain't cheap.
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Indeed, I've already included tower shield training into that -6 ACP. IF I read it correctly, it only reduces Armor Penalty by -3. Could be I'm interpreting it wrong, in which case my Tower Shield Specialist5/Inquisitor2+ would joy :3
Wouldn't the tower shield being made out of darkwood lower the ACP as well?
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I'm still trying to figure out how to afford Mithril Plate..that ain't cheap.
I saved up enough cash for two of my characters to grab Adamantine Plate (even more expensive) by GMing a few 7-11 scenarios for each of them. That's ~4k/pop if you're 7-8, ~6k if you're level 9, and ~8k if you're 10-11.
They skip a level and return with a nice chunk of DR.
I understand people want to actually play their characters, but if you're a GM you're going to have to run those scenarios sometime. If you space them out amongst your characters you get ample play time and phat lewts.
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So first, he has way too much WBL, but thats been discussed.
Second. 5-9 is all about the AC. I roll around with an AC of 37 on my Cavalier usually, even without fighting defensively I cant hit the broad side of a barn, and neither will this guy.
Third, introduce him to 10-11 tier. I face things routinely in that tier that are hitting me an average amount of times (usually have a +25-27 to hit), or simply throw down horrid wiltings/fireballs/cone of cold/chain lightning. I had my AC from about level 7, and was loving being immune to most everything. Then I hit level 10 and went, oh right! Damage hurts!
Even if he makes his saves, those spells deal a lot of damage, and at that level, good luck making your reflexes as a fighter.
Also remember, if an attack is going at the tower shield (if he plants it, or draws attacks to it), then your damaging the shield. With a +3 enchant, its hardness should be 11(5 Base+2 per enchant?) and 50 hit points. 25 Hitpoints and its Broken, full 50 and it is Destroyed.
Arkhios: I've never ever noticed that part of "Weapon Finesse". Good catch!
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This just in: Highly optimized characters still make the game unfun for people. News at 11.
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This just in: Highly optimized characters still make the game unfun for people. News at 11.
Shouldn't that be "may" rather than still?
Some of the examples up thread of a high AC character are ones that most would like to have at the table.
For most highly specialized characters (hmm, most characters actually), it depends on how the player "plays" the character, rather than the build.
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As others have pointed out, there are numerous other ways to get a similar or greater AC on other characters (most notably monks, kensai magus, nature oracles, druids, or anything splashed with those classes in various amounts). So it is hardly the fault of that particular archetype. And in my personal opinion, you can make far more devastating offensive characters, which are a lot more disrupting to the "balance" of a game.
The real problem is that WBL is too high after about level 5 and onward, which allows you to literally buy all of the AC gear your character needs while still covering your other bases. This is especially true by levels 14+.
Just a few point and cases off the top of my head with average WBL for 9:
Halfling Monk [Qinggong] 9
Str 5, Dex 22, Con 14, Int 13, Wis 18, Cha 9
Relevant traits: defensive strategist, fate's favored
Relevant feats: cautious fighter, combat expertise, crane style, dodge
Relevant stuff: agile amulet of mighty fists, belt of dex +4, headband of wis +2, dusty rose ioun stone, jingasa, ring of protection +2, cloak of resistance +2, wand of mage armor
barkskin from qinggong
AC 47, touch 41, flat-footed 30...and that's not even taking into considering ki dodge and/or shield wand from UMD and/or cracked vibrant purple ioun stone
Human Oracle [Nature] 9
Str 14, Dex 7, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 24
Relevant traits: fate's favored
Relevant feats: heavy armor proficiency
Relevant stuff: headband of cha +4, dusty rose ioun stone, jingasa, cloak of resistance +3, full plate, heavy steel shield, rod of lesser extend metamagic x3
barkskin, shield of faith, magic vestment on shield and armor
AC 42, touch 23, flat-footed 32
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Combat maneuvers is what you use to get past ridiculous AC.
Trip the guy and he gets a -4 to his AC for being prone.
Grapple him and his Dex and strength take a -4 penalty, which results in a -2 to AC.
Both? Now he's at -6 to his AC.
You can damage while maintaining a grapple and get a +5 CMB to maintain.
