Festering Maze of Sloth question


Rules Questions and Gameplay Discussion

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

"You may play no more than 1 card per check, regardless of type."

This doesn't prevent others from playing cards on your check, correct?


Other players can play cards to help (but only one card if they're also in the Maze)


I think the key is in the wording: "You...", meaning the rule applies to you only.


Pixel Hunter wrote:
I think the key is in the wording: "You...", meaning the rule applies to you only.

I think that "you" would apply to anyone in that location. Basically meaning what Mechalibur said. Anyone at the location can only play one card on any given check.

Sovereign Court

Csouth and Mechalibur are 100% right. If you are at the location, it applies to, and you can only play one card per check. If you are not at the location, it doesn't, and you can play one of each type.


Recharging a card is different than playing a card, correct?

Lem can reveal a weapon, play a blessing, and recharge a card (to give himself d4+3).


vietorn wrote:

Recharging a card is different than playing a card, correct?

Lem can reveal a weapon, play a blessing, and recharge a card (to give himself d4+3).

Recharging a card for his ability is an activation cost of his power, so in that sense, no it is not "played". Playing is using a card for its own powers, I'm pretty sure.

Now in your example, you would NOT be able to "reveal" a weapon and "discard" a blessing at this particular location for the same check, because "Reveal" is a way of playing a card.

I have not yet got my deck 5... but this location sounds NASTY! I love it!


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You only play a card when you activate a power on that card, not when you use it to activate another power.

Rulebook v3 p9 wrote:
Playing a card means activating that card’s power by revealing, displaying, discarding, recharging, burying, or banishing that card. Doing something with a card that does not activate that card’s power does not count as playing that card.

So Lem recharging a card for his power is not playing a card. But like motrax said, Lem revealing a weapon and discarding a blessing would be 2 cards played, so he couldn't do that.


Hawkmoon269 wrote:

You only play a card when you activate a power on that card, not when you use it to activate another power.

Rulebook v3 p9 wrote:
Playing a card means activating that card’s power by revealing, displaying, discarding, recharging, burying, or banishing that card. Doing something with a card that does not activate that card’s power does not count as playing that card.
So Lem recharging a card for his power is not playing a card. But like motrax said, Lem revealing a weapon and discarding a blessing would be 2 cards played, so he couldn't do that.

Sweet. Thank you for the explanation.


Can I, as Ezren, play a toxic cloud in response to revealing a monster, then play an attack spell, then reveal mirror image because I didn't defeat the monster and will take damage?

My understanding is the Toxic cloud is before the check, the attack spell is during the check, and the mirror image is a different check.


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vietorn wrote:

Can I, as Ezren, play a toxic cloud in response to revealing a monster, then play an attack spell, then reveal mirror image because I didn't defeat the monster and will take damage?

My understanding is the Toxic cloud is before the check, the attack spell is during the check, and the mirror image is a different check.

You may play Toxic Cloud when you encounter, but you can't play an attack spell and Mirror during the check because that would be playing more than one card during the check. Dealing with damage is part of a check. You could play Toxic Cloud when encounter, then do an unarmed attack and play MI if you aren't successful, or an attack spell with no subsequent plays. Easy choice, IMO.


csouth154 wrote:


Dealing with damage is part of a check.

Really? I always thought the damage was a different check (although handled differently); wouldn't that mean that (argh, can't remember the name) the spiked shield could only be used for offense or defense then (not both)? Seems kinda off there.


vietorn wrote:

Can I, as Ezren, play a toxic cloud in response to revealing a monster, then play an attack spell, then reveal mirror image because I didn't defeat the monster and will take damage?

My understanding is the Toxic cloud is before the check, the attack spell is during the check, and the mirror image is a different check.

Toxic Cloud isn't played part of the check, so you could play it at the "when encountered" point and play an attack spell at for the check.

But you can't play Mirror Image if you played any spell for the check because even though Mirror Image says you can play it, the location is higher on the Golden Rule hierarchy than boons.

Rulebook v3 p2 wrote:

Rules: The Golden Rule

If a card and this rulebook are ever in conflict, the card should be considered correct. If cards conflict with one another, then Adventure Path card overrule adventures, adventures overrule scenarios, scenarios overrule locations, locations overrule characters, and characters overrule other card types. Despite this hierarchy, if one card tells that you cannot do something and another card tells you that you can, comply with the card that tells you that you cannot.


Ironvein wrote:
csouth154 wrote:


Dealing with damage is part of a check.

Really? I always thought the damage was a different check (although handled differently); wouldn't that mean that (argh, can't remember the name) the spiked shield could only be used for offense or defense then (not both)? Seems kinda off there.

Taking Damage for failing the check itself is part of the check.

Rulebook v3 p24 wrote:

Attempting a Check

Determine which die you’re using.
Determine the difficulty.
Play cards and use powers that affect the check (optional).
Assemble your dice.
Attempt the roll.
Take damage if you fail a check to defeat a monster.

So if you played a card type as any previous part of the check, you can not play it to reduce damage. (Unless the card says it is ok to play more than 1 of that type.)


Hawkmoon269 wrote:
vietorn wrote:

Can I, as Ezren, play a toxic cloud in response to revealing a monster, then play an attack spell, then reveal mirror image because I didn't defeat the monster and will take damage?

My understanding is the Toxic cloud is before the check, the attack spell is during the check, and the mirror image is a different check.

Toxic Cloud isn't played part of the check, so you could play it at the "when encountered" point and play an attack spell at for the check.

But you can't play Mirror Image if you played any spell for the check because even though Mirror Image says you can play it, the location is higher on the Golden Rule hierarchy than boons.

Rulebook v3 p2 wrote:

Rules: The Golden Rule

If a card and this rulebook are ever in conflict, the card should be considered correct. If cards conflict with one another, then Adventure Path card overrule adventures, adventures overrule scenarios, scenarios overrule locations, locations overrule characters, and characters overrule other card types. Despite this hierarchy, if one card tells that you cannot do something and another card tells you that you can, comply with the card that tells you that you cannot.

Actually, I don't think this is a Golden Rule situation. You can't play MI after an attack spell in this location because that would be two cards. I don't see it as having anything to do with the "one card per type per character per check" rule, because this location rule has nothing to do with type at all.


Hawkmoon269 wrote:
Ironvein wrote:
csouth154 wrote:


Dealing with damage is part of a check.

Really? I always thought the damage was a different check (although handled differently); wouldn't that mean that (argh, can't remember the name) the spiked shield could only be used for offense or defense then (not both)? Seems kinda off there.

Taking Damage for failing the check itself is part of the check.

Rulebook v3 p24 wrote:

Attempting a Check

Determine which die you’re using.
Determine the difficulty.
Play cards and use powers that affect the check (optional).
Assemble your dice.
Attempt the roll.
Take damage if you fail a check to defeat a monster.
So if you played a card type as any previous part of the check, you can not play it to reduce damage. (Unless the card says it is ok to play more than 1 of that type.)

That step doesn't include using cards to defend yourself though as technically you can only play cards that affect the 'check' (i.e. most armors don't apply at THAT point).

It doesn't seem to make sense to me, especially with starting wizards where their only 'armor' would be Arcane Armor. By your logic, if the attack spell failed, the wizard is basically just screwed and Arcane Armor (and other defense spells) are completely worthless to an attack mage. Arcane Armor would then only be useful if you couldn't attack with magic (and that's rare, so far.

Is this just another example of why damage reduction cards (armor, etc) are lame?

I thought that the check ended at the roll of the dice and that damage became a follow-up check, similar to recharging cards. Think this calls for an official ruling.

This probably should be another thread as it's not about the location card anymore, huh?


Ironvein wrote:
Hawkmoon269 wrote:
Ironvein wrote:
csouth154 wrote:


Dealing with damage is part of a check.

Really? I always thought the damage was a different check (although handled differently); wouldn't that mean that (argh, can't remember the name) the spiked shield could only be used for offense or defense then (not both)? Seems kinda off there.

Taking Damage for failing the check itself is part of the check.

Rulebook v3 p24 wrote:

Attempting a Check

Determine which die you’re using.
Determine the difficulty.
Play cards and use powers that affect the check (optional).
Assemble your dice.
Attempt the roll.
Take damage if you fail a check to defeat a monster.
So if you played a card type as any previous part of the check, you can not play it to reduce damage. (Unless the card says it is ok to play more than 1 of that type.)

That step doesn't include using cards to defend yourself though as technically you can only play cards that affect the 'check' (i.e. most armors don't apply at THAT point).

It doesn't seem to make sense to me, especially with starting wizards where their only 'armor' would be Arcane Armor. By your logic, if the attack spell failed, the wizard is basically just screwed and Arcane Armor (and other defense spells) are completely worthless to an attack mage. Arcane Armor would then only be useful if you couldn't attack with magic (and that's rare, so far.

Is this just another example of why damage reduction cards (armor, etc) are lame?

I thought that the check ended at the roll of the dice and that damage became a follow-up check, similar to recharging cards. Think this calls for an official ruling.

This probably should be another thread as it's not about the location card anymore, huh?

No need for a ruling. Damage is DEFINITELY part of a check. But you'll be happy to learn that Arcane Armor and Mirror Image received errata that allows them to be cast even if you previously cast a spell in the same check. :)


Ah, I see. My bad, a case of I understood the intent of the card without referencing (or thinking I needed to reference) the errata. Although, I was incorrect on the why of it.


csouth154 wrote:
Pixel Hunter wrote:
I think the key is in the wording: "You...", meaning the rule applies to you only.
I think that "you" would apply to anyone in that location. Basically meaning what Mechalibur said. Anyone at the location can only play one card on any given check.

I suppose I should have said more. The location card says "you", meaning the person reading the card which it applies to. So yes, anyone on that location is going to read that card and will be a "you". But a person on another location would not be affected as they are not a "you".

Coming in AP6: Sheep characters and cards that say "ewe can not play..."


How about cards that can affect the number of a check. Like there is that one wand of enervation that you roll a dice to reduce the combat difficulty of a check.

A player yesterday who plays as Seoni was trying to figure out if he could play that card plus a spell in the festering maze. We argued that you could not, because you were already playing the wand towards the check.

Would love some guidance on who is right on this.

As an aside the staff of hungry shadows is disgustingly broken in the hands of Seoni. Discard any spall to reduce the combat check of another player by your arcane dice!!! Seoni has to be at the same location but still - thats a D12 worth of combat reduction. AND YOU ONLY HAVE TO REVEAL IT!


Ilpalazo wrote:

How about cards that can affect the number of a check. Like there is that one wand of enervation that you roll a dice to reduce the combat difficulty of a check.

A player yesterday who plays as Seoni was trying to figure out if he could play that card plus a spell in the festering maze. We argued that you could not, because you were already playing the wand towards the check.

Would love some guidance on who is right on this.

The wand is a card. A spell is a card. Each character can only play one card per check while in the Maze of Sloth.

Sovereign Court

Csouth is right. It's a pretty cut and dry ruling. It says one card, it means one card. Not "One card that does this, one card that does that".


Ilpalazo wrote:

How about cards that can affect the number of a check. Like there is that one wand of enervation that you roll a dice to reduce the combat difficulty of a check.

A player yesterday who plays as Seoni was trying to figure out if he could play that card plus a spell in the festering maze. We argued that you could not, because you were already playing the wand towards the check.

Would love some guidance on who is right on this.

As an aside the staff of hungry shadows is disgustingly broken in the hands of Seoni. Discard any spall to reduce the combat check of another player by your arcane dice!!! Seoni has to be at the same location but still - thats a D12 worth of combat reduction. AND YOU ONLY HAVE TO REVEAL IT!

I think what you are asking, ultimately, is whether the Wand of Enervation is played as part of the check or a part of the encounter outside the check. It is part of the check. Thus, it is subject to the location's rule. The Wand of Enervation is played as part of the "Play cards and use powers that affect the check" step.

Alternate reading:
Or perhaps you could argue that it is played during the "Determine the Difficulty" step. But the "players may now play cards" phrase in "Play cards and use powers that affect the check" step lead me to believe it should be played then. But either way, that is part of the check too.

The Staff of Hungry Shadows is quite powerful, though given Seoni's low number of spell cards and the fact she has to discard the spell, it is also quite costly for her. Use sparingly or with a healer nearby.


If she is playing the spell as a second card doesn't she get to recharge it because she automatically recharges spells?


Jirikki wrote:
If she is playing the spell as a second card doesn't she get to recharge it because she automatically recharges spells?

No, because she is not "playing" the spell. A card is only "played" when you use one of the powers on the card.

Sovereign Court

In the above example, she isn't playing the spell. She is playing the Staff, an item, that just happens to require her to discard the spell. It's the same reason she doesn't recharge spells that she discards for her power to let her roll Arcane + 1d6. You are only playing a card if you are using a power written on that card.


So it DOES count as being played for the purposes of the Maze of Sloth but DOESN'T count as playing the spell. I can't see how that could be confusing at all.


Jirikki wrote:
So it DOES count as being played for the purposes of the Maze of Sloth but DOESN'T count as playing the spell. I can't see how that could be confusing at all.

Umm, I do think that you could play the Staff of Heaven and Earth at that location and discard a spell to power it, since you aren't playing the spell card. Discarding a card is not necessarily playing a card.

Edit: had the name of the staff mixed up


The spell doesn't count as being played. The Staff of Heaven and Earth is played. So you can use the Staff of Heaven and Earth at the Maze of Sloth because you are only playing 1 card, the Staff.

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