
motrax |

Recharging a card is different than playing a card, correct?
Lem can reveal a weapon, play a blessing, and recharge a card (to give himself d4+3).
Recharging a card for his ability is an activation cost of his power, so in that sense, no it is not "played". Playing is using a card for its own powers, I'm pretty sure.
Now in your example, you would NOT be able to "reveal" a weapon and "discard" a blessing at this particular location for the same check, because "Reveal" is a way of playing a card.
I have not yet got my deck 5... but this location sounds NASTY! I love it!

Hawkmoon269 |
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You only play a card when you activate a power on that card, not when you use it to activate another power.
Playing a card means activating that card’s power by revealing, displaying, discarding, recharging, burying, or banishing that card. Doing something with a card that does not activate that card’s power does not count as playing that card.
So Lem recharging a card for his power is not playing a card. But like motrax said, Lem revealing a weapon and discarding a blessing would be 2 cards played, so he couldn't do that.

vietorn |

You only play a card when you activate a power on that card, not when you use it to activate another power.
Rulebook v3 p9 wrote:Playing a card means activating that card’s power by revealing, displaying, discarding, recharging, burying, or banishing that card. Doing something with a card that does not activate that card’s power does not count as playing that card.So Lem recharging a card for his power is not playing a card. But like motrax said, Lem revealing a weapon and discarding a blessing would be 2 cards played, so he couldn't do that.
Sweet. Thank you for the explanation.

vietorn |

Can I, as Ezren, play a toxic cloud in response to revealing a monster, then play an attack spell, then reveal mirror image because I didn't defeat the monster and will take damage?
My understanding is the Toxic cloud is before the check, the attack spell is during the check, and the mirror image is a different check.

csouth154 |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Can I, as Ezren, play a toxic cloud in response to revealing a monster, then play an attack spell, then reveal mirror image because I didn't defeat the monster and will take damage?
My understanding is the Toxic cloud is before the check, the attack spell is during the check, and the mirror image is a different check.
You may play Toxic Cloud when you encounter, but you can't play an attack spell and Mirror during the check because that would be playing more than one card during the check. Dealing with damage is part of a check. You could play Toxic Cloud when encounter, then do an unarmed attack and play MI if you aren't successful, or an attack spell with no subsequent plays. Easy choice, IMO.

Ironvein |
Dealing with damage is part of a check.
Really? I always thought the damage was a different check (although handled differently); wouldn't that mean that (argh, can't remember the name) the spiked shield could only be used for offense or defense then (not both)? Seems kinda off there.

Hawkmoon269 |

Can I, as Ezren, play a toxic cloud in response to revealing a monster, then play an attack spell, then reveal mirror image because I didn't defeat the monster and will take damage?
My understanding is the Toxic cloud is before the check, the attack spell is during the check, and the mirror image is a different check.
Toxic Cloud isn't played part of the check, so you could play it at the "when encountered" point and play an attack spell at for the check.
But you can't play Mirror Image if you played any spell for the check because even though Mirror Image says you can play it, the location is higher on the Golden Rule hierarchy than boons.
Rules: The Golden Rule
If a card and this rulebook are ever in conflict, the card should be considered correct. If cards conflict with one another, then Adventure Path card overrule adventures, adventures overrule scenarios, scenarios overrule locations, locations overrule characters, and characters overrule other card types. Despite this hierarchy, if one card tells that you cannot do something and another card tells you that you can, comply with the card that tells you that you cannot.

Hawkmoon269 |

csouth154 wrote:
Dealing with damage is part of a check.
Really? I always thought the damage was a different check (although handled differently); wouldn't that mean that (argh, can't remember the name) the spiked shield could only be used for offense or defense then (not both)? Seems kinda off there.
Taking Damage for failing the check itself is part of the check.
Attempting a Check
Determine which die you’re using.
Determine the difficulty.
Play cards and use powers that affect the check (optional).
Assemble your dice.
Attempt the roll.
Take damage if you fail a check to defeat a monster.
So if you played a card type as any previous part of the check, you can not play it to reduce damage. (Unless the card says it is ok to play more than 1 of that type.)

csouth154 |
vietorn wrote:Can I, as Ezren, play a toxic cloud in response to revealing a monster, then play an attack spell, then reveal mirror image because I didn't defeat the monster and will take damage?
My understanding is the Toxic cloud is before the check, the attack spell is during the check, and the mirror image is a different check.
Toxic Cloud isn't played part of the check, so you could play it at the "when encountered" point and play an attack spell at for the check.
But you can't play Mirror Image if you played any spell for the check because even though Mirror Image says you can play it, the location is higher on the Golden Rule hierarchy than boons.
Rulebook v3 p2 wrote:Rules: The Golden Rule
If a card and this rulebook are ever in conflict, the card should be considered correct. If cards conflict with one another, then Adventure Path card overrule adventures, adventures overrule scenarios, scenarios overrule locations, locations overrule characters, and characters overrule other card types. Despite this hierarchy, if one card tells that you cannot do something and another card tells you that you can, comply with the card that tells you that you cannot.
Actually, I don't think this is a Golden Rule situation. You can't play MI after an attack spell in this location because that would be two cards. I don't see it as having anything to do with the "one card per type per character per check" rule, because this location rule has nothing to do with type at all.

Ironvein |
Ironvein wrote:csouth154 wrote:
Dealing with damage is part of a check.
Really? I always thought the damage was a different check (although handled differently); wouldn't that mean that (argh, can't remember the name) the spiked shield could only be used for offense or defense then (not both)? Seems kinda off there.
Taking Damage for failing the check itself is part of the check.
Rulebook v3 p24 wrote:So if you played a card type as any previous part of the check, you can not play it to reduce damage. (Unless the card says it is ok to play more than 1 of that type.)Attempting a Check
Determine which die you’re using.
Determine the difficulty.
Play cards and use powers that affect the check (optional).
Assemble your dice.
Attempt the roll.
Take damage if you fail a check to defeat a monster.
That step doesn't include using cards to defend yourself though as technically you can only play cards that affect the 'check' (i.e. most armors don't apply at THAT point).
It doesn't seem to make sense to me, especially with starting wizards where their only 'armor' would be Arcane Armor. By your logic, if the attack spell failed, the wizard is basically just screwed and Arcane Armor (and other defense spells) are completely worthless to an attack mage. Arcane Armor would then only be useful if you couldn't attack with magic (and that's rare, so far.
Is this just another example of why damage reduction cards (armor, etc) are lame?
I thought that the check ended at the roll of the dice and that damage became a follow-up check, similar to recharging cards. Think this calls for an official ruling.
This probably should be another thread as it's not about the location card anymore, huh?

csouth154 |
Hawkmoon269 wrote:Ironvein wrote:csouth154 wrote:
Dealing with damage is part of a check.
Really? I always thought the damage was a different check (although handled differently); wouldn't that mean that (argh, can't remember the name) the spiked shield could only be used for offense or defense then (not both)? Seems kinda off there.
Taking Damage for failing the check itself is part of the check.
Rulebook v3 p24 wrote:So if you played a card type as any previous part of the check, you can not play it to reduce damage. (Unless the card says it is ok to play more than 1 of that type.)Attempting a Check
Determine which die you’re using.
Determine the difficulty.
Play cards and use powers that affect the check (optional).
Assemble your dice.
Attempt the roll.
Take damage if you fail a check to defeat a monster.That step doesn't include using cards to defend yourself though as technically you can only play cards that affect the 'check' (i.e. most armors don't apply at THAT point).
It doesn't seem to make sense to me, especially with starting wizards where their only 'armor' would be Arcane Armor. By your logic, if the attack spell failed, the wizard is basically just screwed and Arcane Armor (and other defense spells) are completely worthless to an attack mage. Arcane Armor would then only be useful if you couldn't attack with magic (and that's rare, so far.
Is this just another example of why damage reduction cards (armor, etc) are lame?
I thought that the check ended at the roll of the dice and that damage became a follow-up check, similar to recharging cards. Think this calls for an official ruling.
This probably should be another thread as it's not about the location card anymore, huh?
No need for a ruling. Damage is DEFINITELY part of a check. But you'll be happy to learn that Arcane Armor and Mirror Image received errata that allows them to be cast even if you previously cast a spell in the same check. :)

Pixel Hunter |

Pixel Hunter wrote:I think the key is in the wording: "You...", meaning the rule applies to you only.I think that "you" would apply to anyone in that location. Basically meaning what Mechalibur said. Anyone at the location can only play one card on any given check.
I suppose I should have said more. The location card says "you", meaning the person reading the card which it applies to. So yes, anyone on that location is going to read that card and will be a "you". But a person on another location would not be affected as they are not a "you".
Coming in AP6: Sheep characters and cards that say "ewe can not play..."

Ilpalazo |

How about cards that can affect the number of a check. Like there is that one wand of enervation that you roll a dice to reduce the combat difficulty of a check.
A player yesterday who plays as Seoni was trying to figure out if he could play that card plus a spell in the festering maze. We argued that you could not, because you were already playing the wand towards the check.
Would love some guidance on who is right on this.
As an aside the staff of hungry shadows is disgustingly broken in the hands of Seoni. Discard any spall to reduce the combat check of another player by your arcane dice!!! Seoni has to be at the same location but still - thats a D12 worth of combat reduction. AND YOU ONLY HAVE TO REVEAL IT!

csouth154 |
How about cards that can affect the number of a check. Like there is that one wand of enervation that you roll a dice to reduce the combat difficulty of a check.
A player yesterday who plays as Seoni was trying to figure out if he could play that card plus a spell in the festering maze. We argued that you could not, because you were already playing the wand towards the check.
Would love some guidance on who is right on this.
The wand is a card. A spell is a card. Each character can only play one card per check while in the Maze of Sloth.

Hawkmoon269 |

How about cards that can affect the number of a check. Like there is that one wand of enervation that you roll a dice to reduce the combat difficulty of a check.
A player yesterday who plays as Seoni was trying to figure out if he could play that card plus a spell in the festering maze. We argued that you could not, because you were already playing the wand towards the check.
Would love some guidance on who is right on this.
As an aside the staff of hungry shadows is disgustingly broken in the hands of Seoni. Discard any spall to reduce the combat check of another player by your arcane dice!!! Seoni has to be at the same location but still - thats a D12 worth of combat reduction. AND YOU ONLY HAVE TO REVEAL IT!
I think what you are asking, ultimately, is whether the Wand of Enervation is played as part of the check or a part of the encounter outside the check. It is part of the check. Thus, it is subject to the location's rule. The Wand of Enervation is played as part of the "Play cards and use powers that affect the check" step.
The Staff of Hungry Shadows is quite powerful, though given Seoni's low number of spell cards and the fact she has to discard the spell, it is also quite costly for her. Use sparingly or with a healer nearby.

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In the above example, she isn't playing the spell. She is playing the Staff, an item, that just happens to require her to discard the spell. It's the same reason she doesn't recharge spells that she discards for her power to let her roll Arcane + 1d6. You are only playing a card if you are using a power written on that card.

jones314 |

So it DOES count as being played for the purposes of the Maze of Sloth but DOESN'T count as playing the spell. I can't see how that could be confusing at all.
Umm, I do think that you could play the Staff of Heaven and Earth at that location and discard a spell to power it, since you aren't playing the spell card. Discarding a card is not necessarily playing a card.
Edit: had the name of the staff mixed up