pathfindernovice |
I played pallys 3.0 and 3.5 but I am sort of new to playing a Paladin in PF. So I am looking for advice on making an effective PF Paladin. Seems like they got really buffed from 3.0 days. New Smite and dropped WIS looks nice.
The starting level is 1 and it's a 20 point buy. It's a home campaign, so it isn't set in Golarion. Other than that it uses standard Paizo. All books are allowed.
What I'm going for is a standard young, naive Paladin. Not experienced or seasoned enough to be the typical "Lawful Stupid" douche that most players expect from Paladin. More of a naive kid with his heart in the right place, but he doesn't really "get it" when it comes to what being a Paladin is actually about.
Race: Human
Deity: Desna. He sees himself as a Paladin of freedom. He's too naive to realize why this is doomed to fail.
Abilities
18 STR
14 CON
11 DEX
8 INT
7 WIS
16 CHA
Focused Skills:
Diplomacy
Perception (trait)
Sense Motive
Feats:
1 - Power Attack (extra damage)
H - Fey Foundling (for bonus heals)
Intended: 3 - Greater Mercy
Intended: 5 - Extra Lay on Hands
Traits:
Reactionary
Defender of the Society
Bonus trait - Eyes and Ears of the City
Drawback: Naive.
Archetype:
Oath of Vengeance
Starting gear:
Paladin kit
Greatsword
Scalemail
Wooden shield
Longsword
Silver Dagger
Torches
Javelin (ranged)
Compass
Manacles
Fruian Thistlefoot |
Defender of the Society only works if you have a level of fighter.
Recommend replacing it with one of the following:
Magical Knack: +2 CL as a paladin. You will cast spells as -1 instead of -3.
Dangerously Curious: Adds use magic Device to your Skill list..your CHA based so it will be good.
Blessed Touch: You heal 1 additional point of damage when using lay on hands, channeling energy, or casting a cure spell.
Typically your allowed 2 traits. In PFS your only allowed 2 no drawbacks. Houserules your more then welcome to use Drawbacks.
If your playing a Naive character why Sense motive? Don't you Naively take everyone at their word?
Fruian Thistlefoot |
Why would you read others when you are simple, take them at their word, and as Websters says: "deficient in worldly wisdom or informed judgment"
Other Synonyms: unsuspecting, unsuspicious, unwary, unworldly, wide-eyed, primitive, simple, simpleminded, uncritical
Related words: childish, immature, inexperienced, raw; childlike, idealistic, impractical, unrealistic; believing, beguiled, duped, gulled, tricked; careless, heedless, thoughtless
To me a Naive person would not be sensing Motives. he will just take everything at face value if he thinks everyone is inwardly good.
Perhaps later picking up Sense Motive after he learns a bit about the real world. But fresh out of Paladin school and being described as his number 1 trait Naive i find it hard to fit that skill in.
Jasque |
It is possible to RP a paladin that is naive and still has a high score for sense motive (though the low wisdom is going to hurt.)
Perhaps the paladin grew up around a group of exceptionally good people. His ability to 'sense motive' actually helped him to learn how to be a good person as well. He pays close attention to everybody's motives, but he hasn't yet had enough experience with people who have evil or self-interested motives. The low wisdom score might reflect how this unusual upbringing has permanently affected the way he views the world. But he still retains his interest in the motives of others.
7heprofessor |
Race: Human
Deity: Desna. He sees himself as a Paladin of freedom. He's too naive to realize why this is doomed to fail.Abilities
18 STR
14 CON
11 DEX
8 INT
7 WIS
16 CHAFocused Skills:
Diplomacy
Perception (trait)
Sense MotiveFeats:
1 - Power Attack (extra damage)
H - Fey Foundling (for bonus heals)Intended: 3 - Greater Mercy
Intended: 5 - Extra Lay on HandsTraits:
Reactionary
Defender of the Society
Bonus trait - Eyes and Ears of the CityDrawback: Naive.
Archetype:
Oath of Vengeance
Starting gear:
Paladin kit
Greatsword
Scalemail
Wooden shield
Longsword
Silver Dagger
Torches
Javelin (ranged)
Compass
Manacles
You've built this character almost exactly as I would have, save the following:
I took Ride (instead of Sense Motive). I knew that I would be taking the Mount at level 5 over the weapon so I wanted to be good at riding immediately.
I used the Blessed Touch Trait for even more heals (as Ruian recommends).
Other than that, consider how often you'll actually be using Power Attack at level one. You're attack bonus is only +5 so a -1 is huge at this level. You're already one-shotting most everything you encounter with your greatsword, so consider whether or not you'll be going down the Mounted Combat line and take that instead.
Fruian Thistlefoot |
Watching someone's actions are different then sensing someone's motives. Someone may go every friday to a children's cancer visit. That looks good on the outside and I can watch and perceive him going there. But that person I thought was good was going there because he hasa crush on as na nurse and uses that time to talk to, her on a regular to gain informationn or get close to her because she is is the daughter of a rich Lord.
Its hard to play a wise motive sensor playing a young character dumping wisdom. (wis is gained from Experience in life) You can do it because it is your character and your optimizing. But I just don't see it fit the naive child fresh to the world having been trained in a wisdom skill other then perception or heal. Heal can be learned from books. And perception Is you eyesight, hearing, and smell. I mean going for Role Play and not complete and utter optimized.
Even optimizers will say perception, use magic device, and diplomacy are Top tier skills.
Deadmanwalking |
Personally, I'd go Dex 12, Con 12, Int 10 and grab Diplomacy as another skill (maybe skipping it on a few levels for things like a rank in Knowledge - Religion). Your set-up's technically more optimal, but I think mine would be more fun, and the +1 AC is probably worth the HP per level...
The Int also allows him to eventually get over the 'naive' thing without it seeming forced, IMO.
Speaking of which, if using Drawbacks, Naive is actually one of them, so I'd take it.
Corvino |
While sword & shield is a classic in terms of image, it's quite a bit less effective than a 2-handed weapon for a power attacking Paladin in Pathfinder. Using a 2-hander gives you more bonus damage from both Strength and Power attack, and using a shield can stop you using lay on hands on yourself as a swift action (you need a hand free, which you do with a Greatsword, but not with a sword & shield apparently). You've got a Longsword & shield listed as well as a Greatsword, I'm not sure which you plan to use. Might be worth taking a blunt weapon instead of the Longsword in case of DR, too.
Otherwise everything looks solid. I'm guessing you're going for the tanking with swift action self-heals route if you're got Fey Foundling.
Ascalaphus |
I've had a good time with the following:
STR 16 +2 human -> 18
Dex 13
Con 12
Int 12
Wis 8
Cha 12
Power Attack
Improved Initiative
Trait: Seeker (Perception class skill)
Trait: World Traveler (Knowledge Local class skill)
So far, it seems that Diplomacy, Perception and a bit of knowledge are very useful in PFS. Sense Motive is also occasionally useful.
A two-handed weapon (Nodachi) works very well with Str 18/Power Attack. Make sure to also bring a Heavy Flail for critters with DR/Bludgeoning. Buy them cold-iron by default, this year is demon-heavy.
You really don't need to do extreme min/maxing, the encounters aren't THAT difficult. The skill points from Int 12 mean that you can participate meaningfully in the noncombat part of the game.
If I had ISWG, I'd have taken Fey Foundling because it's certainly good for paladins (if a bit dubious flavor; fey are not really associated with LG).
Your main problem as paladin is movement speed. You will be moving at 20ft speed and constantly lagging behind everyone else unless you take heroic measures.
Corvino |
Ascalaphus raises an interesting point with the Cold Iron suggestion. My instinct is to go for a Cold Iron Slashing/Piercing weapon and Alchemical Silver Blunt weapon. Alchemical Silver Slashing/Piercing weapons get a damage penalty, but Blunt weapons don't. Between the two weapons and maybe a smattering of Knowledge (planes)/Knowledge (religion) you should have 90% of what you need to beat DR.
Ascalaphus |
What you need to remember is that with Smite Evil, you don't have to worry about the DR of a single boss. (Provided you correctly identify the scenario's boss; don't blow it too early.)
However, I've played Siege of the Diamond City, where (no big surprise) you fight a lot of demons. At that point, cold iron weapons are an absolute necessity. And they're not really all that expensive.
I've yet to need silver weapons at all.
I should confess though, I've had some trouble with HP/AC now and then; playing with two-handed swords means sometimes you get hit hard. Make sure you buy a wand of CLW as soon as you get 2 Prestige, and heal up between every combat.
pathfindernovice |
I decided to start with a silver weapon and cold iron. Figured his religious order might have been smarter than him and given them out in knowing of what one day the Paladin would face.
For healing I am going with this feat chain:
Fey Foundling
Greater Mercy (+1d6 Lay on hands)
Extra Lay on Hands
Figure that means at level 6. I am probably looking at 4d6 + 8 LoH. Which isn't so shabby.
aegrisomnia |
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Record how much time you spend figuring out your initial stats, feats, skills, abilities, and growth plan.
Spend at least that amount of time finding or writing a paladin code, going over it with the GM, and making sure there aren't any philosophical differences that will cause you and/or your GM to come here and start another Paladin Falls thread.
Rerednaw |
I played pallys 3.0 and 3.5 but I am sort of new to playing a Paladin in PF. So I am looking for advice on making an effective PF Paladin. Seems like they got really buffed from 3.0 days. New Smite and dropped WIS looks nice.
<SNIP good stuff>...
Manacles
Dunno the specifics of your home game so this may or may not affect you.
How do you deal with swarms?How do you deal with poison?
How do circumvent paralysis/sleep/charm.
At level 2 you gain smite and that nice bonus to saves...are you expecting a rough time until then?
While a mount is fine, how do you plan to take him along and through dungeons (if there are any). With all the extra smites...mayhap a magical weapon, excuse bonded spirit weapon may be more in line?
+1 on getting cold iron/silver. Though given starting finances a silver weapon may not be feasible at start. You are better off power attacking with 2-handing with your high strength then burning your actions to use a dagger. Cold iron though is within reach.
Suggestion for ranged weapons.
Go with 20 cold iron sling bullets (at twice cost) and then weapon blanch (silver) on 10 of them (5 gp for the silver weapon blanch). That's 4 sp for the ammo plus 5 gp for the blanch. A sling of course is free. And you get to add your strength modifier to damage. At start 1d4+4 better than 1d8.
Alternatively to cover your cold iron DR issues, pick up a few cold iron chakram. 1gp normally, cold iron versions are 2gp each. 1d8+str damage. 30 foot range increment. I usually get 3 of them. Still need a sling to deal with silver though.
Pick one primary fighting style. Generally 2H > sword and board. Ditch the shield and longsword for now.
What's the rest of the party looking like?
Personally I avoid dump stats but your stat array is fine from an optimization standpoint. Though you may wish to drop the int to 7. Still get 1 skill point a level and you gain 2 more stat points.
Your traits are good (reactionary and eyes and ear of the city.)
Does your GM allow rebuilds/retraining? Instead of Power Attack at first level, a reach weapon (say a glaive) along with Combat Reflexes may be worth considering (need to bump your dex a little though). Then retrain out when you level up later.
Good luck and welcome to Pathfinder!