Intelligent Items and "Target=Caster" spells


Rules Questions

Scarab Sages

For intelligent magic items that have the ability to cast spells, I can't find any indication of whether they can only cast self targeting spells on the item itself, or if they can cast self targeting spells on the wielder as though the wielder was the caster.

Many spells that would be highly useful to give to an item's user don't entirely make sense when applied to the weapon - Divine Favor, Mirror Image, Divine Power, Disguise Self, etc., which seem like very good spells to give to an intelligent weapon that you're going to pass out to your church's champion, a wizard's head bodyguard, or something similar.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

They would not be able to cast Personal range spells on the wielder/user of the item. Other forms of target spells are likely fair game.


For Intelligent Items, they cast the spells them selves, on their own turn in combat, just like any spell caster. I see no reason as to why any spell that only can be cast on the caster them selves would be able to be cast differently by an Intelligent Item.

If the Item can cast Disguise Self, it casts Disguise Self. Not Disguise Other.


Which raises an interesting question.

Imagine that you have a wand of disguise self. Obviously if you use it, it disguises you. Now make it intelligent. Now the power behaves differently based on which of you casts it?

... I note, I've still never seen an official ruling on whether "their own powers" refers only to the Intelligent Item Powers or to all of the attributes of the item.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Only permanent magic items (as opposed to single-use items or those with charges) can be intelligent. (This means that potions, scrolls, and wands, among other items, are never intelligent.)

Intelligent items still function in every way like their non-intelligent counterparts. Therefore, if there is a magical item that allowed the wielder to use a personal range spell on himself, then that shouldn't change when the item is made intelligent.


Ravingdork wrote:

Only permanent magic items (as opposed to single-use items or those with charges) can be intelligent. (This means that potions, scrolls, and wands, among other items, are never intelligent.)

Intelligent items still function in every way like their non-intelligent counterparts. Therefore, if there is a magical item that allowed the wielder to use a personal range spell on himself, then that shouldn't change when the item is made intelligent.

I 2nd that.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

There's really nothing to second. That's the official rule, quoted verbatim.


Ravingdork wrote:

Only permanent magic items (as opposed to single-use items or those with charges) can be intelligent. (This means that potions, scrolls, and wands, among other items, are never intelligent.)

Intelligent items still function in every way like their non-intelligent counterparts. Therefore, if there is a magical item that allowed the wielder to use a personal range spell on himself, then that shouldn't change when the item is made intelligent.

There is a Paizo non-official thing they posted at one point which was a list of optional intelligent item enhancements, one of which was "recharging", which made the item not destroyed at 0 charges, and regain charges over time. At which point you could indeed have an intelligent wand. In any event, you could have an intelligent staff, presumably, since they are permanent.

At which point, my inclination is to think that a personal-range spell would target whoever activated it, so if the item can indeed activate itself, and does so, then I suppose it targets itself.

Silver Crusade

seebs wrote:
... I note, I've still never seen an official ruling on whether "their own powers" refers only to the Intelligent Item Powers or to all of the attributes of the item.

'Their own powers' refers to...their own powers(!), no matter the source.

Intelligent Boots of Levitation (for example) can use its own actions to activate the power of the boots:-

Quote:
On command, these boots allow the wearer to levitate as if she had cast levitate on herself.

So when the power is activated (by the boots OR the wearer), the wearer levitates as if the wearer had cast levitate on herself. Either the intelligent boots or the wearer can use their own move actions to change the wearer's altitude as described in the levitate spell.

The boots can also use the powers it has by dint of being intelligent, using its own actions.

The PC can use the normal powers of an item using his own actions, but cannot use the intelligence-based powers (those possessed by dint of being an intelligent item); the item itself is the only one who can access those.

Of course, if the PC is dominant then she can order the item to use its powers, and if the item is dominant then it may prevent the PC from using even the item's normal powers.


Malachi Silverclaw wrote:
seebs wrote:
... I note, I've still never seen an official ruling on whether "their own powers" refers only to the Intelligent Item Powers or to all of the attributes of the item.
'Their own powers' refers to...their own powers(!), no matter the source.

I've waffled back and forth on that. There is nothing explicit stating so, that I can find. There are a couple of things which strongly suggest that they are intended to have access to the powers of the base item, and there are others which at least sort of imply that they get access only to the extra powers granted to them for being An Intelligent Item.

I'm currently leaning towards "use all the powers", but I would love to see something explicit on the question in the books.

Silver Crusade

seebs wrote:
Malachi Silverclaw wrote:
seebs wrote:
... I note, I've still never seen an official ruling on whether "their own powers" refers only to the Intelligent Item Powers or to all of the attributes of the item.
'Their own powers' refers to...their own powers(!), no matter the source.

I've waffled back and forth on that. There is nothing explicit stating so, that I can find. There are a couple of things which strongly suggest that they are intended to have access to the powers of the base item, and there are others which at least sort of imply that they get access only to the extra powers granted to them for being An Intelligent Item.

I'm currently leaning towards "use all the powers", but I would love to see something explicit on the question in the books.

The magic item has powers. If it's intelligent, it has more powers. I don't see the problem.


Malachi Silverclaw wrote:
The magic item has powers. If it's intelligent, it has more powers. I don't see the problem.

There is clearly a difference in activation. Some powers can be activated by the wielder. Others can be activated by the item. It is conceivable that the intent could have been that the item can activate only the powers that cannot be activated by a user. This would, in particular, explain why it is suggested so strongly that an intelligent item ought to have at least one such power; otherwise, it doesn't have any options.

So, the basic justification for the item being able to activate itself is:

PRD wrote:
Unlike most magic items, intelligent items can activate their own powers without waiting for a command word from their owner. Intelligent items act during their owner's turn in the initiative order.

But which powers are "their own powers"?

Review this paragraph, in particular:

PRD wrote:
Each intelligent item should possess at least one power, although some might possess a host of powers. To find the item's specific powers, roll on or choose from the table below. All powers function at the direction of the item, though intelligent items generally follow the wishes of their owner. Activating a power or concentrating on an active one is a standard action for the item. The caster level for these effects is equal to the item's caster level. Save DCs are based on the item's highest mental ability score.

This paragraph strongly implies that if you don't pick anything from that table, the item does not possess any powers.

In which case, the abilities available to a wielder of the base item don't count as "powers", and we can conclude that the item can't activate them.

I am currently leaning towards that being an unintentional implication, but it's definitely present in the text. If you don't pick (or roll) powers on that table, the intelligent item has no powers. Even if the base item type has powers.

Silver Crusade

It only says that because it's entirely probable that the magic item sans intelligence doesn't have any activatable powers: a +1 weapon, for example.

It would be anticlimactic if you finally rolled an intelligent magic weapon, but it was functionally no different from any other magic +1 sword because it's intelligence couldn't actually do anything.

In a scenario there was an intelligent Mirror of Opposition, which could decide for itself whether to duplicate or not, could order the duplicates it created, and got them to capture but not kill the original, because the duplicate disappears if the original dies and the mirror was the power behind the throne.

It could definately control the powers it has that were not granted by dint of being intelligent.


Dot.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Intelligent Items and "Target=Caster" spells All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Rules Questions