So...are there enough male love interests in the APs?

[Deadmanwalking]

As was brought up in another threadthat shall remain nameless, but seems a potentially legitimate complaint, there seem to be significantly more female love interests available in the APs than male ones. If true, this is obviously a problem...so is it true?

I haven't read all the APs...I'm holding out hope for playing some of them, but of the ones I have read (CotCT, SD, LoF, Serpent's Skull, and Wrath of the Righteous) I do seem to recall less potential male romantic options than female ones...though as a straight guy, I am perhaps only remembering those relevant to my interests.

So, let's see if this is true. Over the next week or two, I'm gonna go through the above listed APs and try and spot at least somewhat fleshed-out characters who might be likely to serve as a PC love interest. I'l then post numbers, with a list of who those people are in spoiler tags. I'd appreciate others doing the same for other APs (or ones I haven't gotten to yet).

Let's see if this is really a problem that needs to be addressed.

[Wiggz]

Deadmanwalking wrote:

As was brought up in another threadthat shall remain nameless, but seems a potentially legitimate complaint, there seem to be significantly more female love interests available in the APs than male ones. If true, this is obviously a problem...so is it true?

I haven't read all the APs...I'm holding out hope for playing some of them, but of the ones I have read (CotCT, SD, LoF, Serpent's Skull, and Wrath of the Righteous) I do seem to recall less potential male romantic options than female ones...though as a straight guy, I am perhaps only remembering those relevant to my interests.

So, let's see if this is true. Over the next week or two, I'm gonna go through the above listed APs and try and spot at least somewhat fleshed-out characters who might be likely to serve as a PC love interest. I'l then post numbers, with a list of who those people are in spoiler tags. I'd appreciate others doing the same for other APs (or ones I haven't gotten to yet).

Let's see if this is really a problem that needs to be addressed.

Probably worth keeping in mind the demographics of those playing the game, though I can't imagine where you would get the numbers. A 50/50 split in potential male/female heterosexual partners (for instance) might seem appropriate, but not necessarily so if those playing the game are 80/20.

When looking for potential partners, I'd probably start with anyone who's full stats, backstory and motivations are listed at the back of the book - that should give you a fair sampling. I own Shattered Star, Skull n Shackles, Council of Thieves, Rise of the Runelords and Jade Regent as well if you'd like me to toss in a bit more data.

[Joana]

I went into The Wormwood Mutiny with high hopes. It's a whole pirate ship! There's got to be a Johnny Depp or Orlando Bloom on board somewhere, right? Nope.

Major NPCs of The Wormwood Mutiny:

Sandara Quinn:

Female red-headed human. Full-body artwork with cleavage. Physical description: "Crowned with a mane of fiery red locks, Sandara looks like someone not to be crossed. Yet the smile lines at the corners of her eyes and the easy way she holds herself hint at a lighter side. She dresses to accentuate her figure, and her whole appearance speaks of the sea...." More importantly, one of the main antagonists has made a pass at Sandara and been rebuffed, yet if a female PC with an 18 Cha and the Charming trait tries to influence said antagonist, she is unable to sway him in her favor due to plot immunity. Clear message: Sandara Quinn is far, far sexier than you could ever be, you pathetic player character.

Rosie Cusswell:

Female brunette halfling. Full-body artwork with cleavage. No physical description. Described as having a secret crush on the male gnome NPC.

Crimson Cog Cogward:

Male bald human. Artwork of his head, scowling sullenly at the reader. Description: "Crimson Cogward (so called after the color his neck turns when he's angry) is a loner, and prone to incredible rages and dark moods. He wears a blue Varisian scarf tied tight around his shaven head to hide the scar left when his ear when [sic] bitten off in a bar fight. Cog gets pleasure from little other than combat and is quick to get into fistfights...." What a catch, I don't think. :P

Conchobhar Turlach Shortstone:

Male gnome with stringy black hair. Artwork of his head and shoulders, looking ridiculous. Description: Conchobhar Shortstone is a handsome, honey-tongued gnome who wears a foppish purple hat, an eye patch, and a white silk shirt, and carries a dandyish cane.... One thing dominates Conchobhar's thinking -- himself. Conchobhar is also a serial womanizer...." Once again, where do I sign up? :P

Mister Plugg:

Male bald human. Evil beyond the possibility of redemption and given plot immunity to PCs trying to improve his attitude, though his is probably the only attractive male artwork in the book. Full body, shirtless.

Master Scourge:

Male human. No artwork. Also evil beyond the possibility of redemption and unsusceptible to influence by PCs. Physical description: "...a sneering man with a braided beard and a mouth full of gold teeth. His body is tall and thin and even his long coat and heavy boots fail to give any impression of strength or bulk. A sadistic coward...." He is specifically called out as likely to be "jealous of a handsome and talented [male] PC," but while he was rejected by Sandara Quinn, he shows no interest in female PCs.

Ambrose Fishguts Kroop:

Male, middle-aged, sloppily overweight, alcholic human. Truly repellent full-body artwork. Physical description: "Kroop is a large, some would say fat, man, weighing well over 200 pounds and standing only 5 feet tall. He exudes an air of neglect, perhaps even despair, from the bushy tufts of black hair behind his ears, to his rotting teeth, to the stains on his filthy apron. He walks in a wallowing waddle, particularly when drunk...."

Cut-Throat Grok:

Female brunette half-orc. Full-body artwork that doesn't do her any favors. Apart from her toothy grin, doesn't get any physical description.

Owlbear Hartshorn:

Male bald human. Full-body artwork, shirtless. But just in case any male PCs might feel like he's any sort of competition for Sandara, he has 4 Int and 6 Wis and is presented as mentally disabled. Physical description: "Owlbear Hartshorn is a large man with meaty fists."

That's all the NPCs with at least a paragraph of description. Even though that's six males to three females, there's not a single attractive male romance option.

[Deadmanwalking]

Wiggz wrote:

Probably worth keeping in mind the demographics of those playing the game, though I can't imagine where you would get the numbers. A 50/50 split in potential male/female heterosexual partners (for instance) might seem appropriate, but not necessarily so if those playing the game are 80/20.

It's worth keeping in mind to some degree, yeah. But having more male love interests is the kind of thing that might help attract female players.

Additionally, I'd like to note that Paizo NPCs are almost never actually given a sexual orientation. They're sometimes given current or past relationships that are somewhat indicative, but very rarely (and basically never for those not in a relationship) actually stated to have a particular sexual orientation.

Wiggz wrote:

When looking for potential partners, I'd probably start with anyone who's full stats, backstory and motivations are listed at the back of the book - that should give you a fair sampling. I own Shattered Star, Skull n Shackles, Council of Thieves, Rise of the Runelords and Jade Regent as well if you'd like me to toss in a bit more data.

Yeah, those are definitely the people to start with. A stat block isn't completely necessary for a love interest, but it's probably the sign of an intentional one.

[Mikaze]

More like Azaz Arafe plz. :)

(and Gein Kafog)

>_>

<_<

I can pore over Shattered Star over the week to help take the burden off

[Joana]

Souls for Smuggler's Shiv: The party is stranded on a desert island with 5 NPCs. Blue Lagoon time, right?

The Castaways:

Aerys Mavato:

Female brunette half-elf. Drawn in armor which emphasizes her breasts, but at least doesn't expose cleavage, and more lipstick than Ginger Grant took with her on her three-hour tour. Physical desciption: "Aerys is a trim, athletic woman with short dark hair, tanned skin, and fierce blue eyes ... a woman of rare beauty...."

Gelik Aberwhinge:

Male blond gnome. Rather unfortunate artwork which looks nothing like a Golarion gnome. Physical description: "Gelik is a spry, energetic gome with blond hair and a neat goatee. He dresses like a noble at all times." With Conchobhar, this seems like a rather unfortunate streak of depicting male gnomes as clothes-horse Felix Ungers.

Ishirou:

Male gray-haired human. Artwork that makes him look about 80, with gray hair and missing teeth. Physical description: "Ishirou is a rugged Tien man who appears much older than he is, with graying hair worn in a ponytail and a perpetual scruffy beard." He's later described as "easily flustered by the attention of an attractive woman," but with that artwork and description, I can't imagine many PCs would think of initiating a romance.

Jask Derindi:

Male brunette middle-aged human. Artwork is seriously hot: a good-looking black man who's mostly shirtless. Unfortunately, this artwork has been described as a mistake, and any indication he's attractive is quickly taken back by his physical description: "Jask is a middle-aged, plain-looking Garundi man with hair starting to gray and watery eyes." Because, you know, otherwise he might be competition for the PCs for Aerys and the obligatory sexy red-head....

Sasha Nevah:

Female human redhead. Artwork displays her nearly-bare back under a dangerously tattered shirt. Physical description: "Sasha has tousled red hair and mischievous green eyes, and is missing the pinky finger of her left hand. She bears a tattoo between her shoulder blades -- the symbol of the Red Mantis.... Slender and athletic, Sasha never stands still or stays quiet for long."

While the party is stranded with three males and two females, both females are described as extraordinarily attractive, while the human males are specifically called "old" and "plain-looking."

[Deadmanwalking]

Note: I don't think looking at only the first books in isolation is sufficient, I'm gonna look at the whole AP...also:

Serpent's Skull:

I think that Jask's combination of friendly attitude and nice looking picture make him qualified as a legitimate love interest. I'll be including one or two female potential love interests with similarly unappealing descriptions and nice pictures, for the record.

So I'd say of the survivors, you've got two female love interest possibilities and one male...though there's another female one in that volume. So 3 to 1...and not a very good ratio.

[dogstarrb]

This has been a noticeable problem for me, and is why I tend to play characters with romantic interest in females (be the PC male, female, "Doushel" as we like to call them in our games, or otherwise)

[Joana]

Deadmanwalking wrote:

Note: I don't think looking at only the first books in isolation is sufficient, I'm gonna look at the whole AP.

I'm playing in book 2 of Serpent's Skull right now and don't want to spoil myself. But we haven't met any attractive men in this book yet! I take that back:

Spoiler:

There's a guy in Eleder with this art that's pretty hot. But he's also a terrorist threatening to kill our friends, so that takes him out of the romance pool. Also, in our game, Jask died and we paid to have him reincarnated. He came back as a female elf. :P

[Deadmanwalking]

Joana wrote:

Deadmanwalking wrote:

Note: I don't think looking at only the first books in isolation is sufficient, I'm gonna look at the whole AP.

I'm playing in book 2 of Serpent's Skull right now and don't want to spoil myself. But we haven't met any attractive men in this book yet!

Entirely understandable, just noting. As I recall there are a few more opportunities later on in that one, though.

[Pan]

Does this really need to be a thing? As GM can you just add interests if your players want them?

[Paladin of Baha-who?]

Cog can work if you like bad boys. Conchobar is a bit of a fop, but he could certainly be a valid love interest for a gnome or halfling lady (or even a guy if the GM cooperated).

Jack Scrimshaw's age isn't given, but since he's apparently as capable of working and fighting as anyone else on the ship, he's probably a teenager. That would be a valid love interest for another teen character. My stepdaughter played a 17-year-old character, I decided to make Jack 15, and the two characters are dating now. She's also captain. It's a little unrealistic, but it's a fun family game.

Maheem is possible if your characters work diplomacy on him to turn him to their side. Maybe he's just got a scowl because no one's given him anything to be happy about?

Merrill Pegsworthy in book 2 is a reasonable possibility for romance.

Pierce Jerrell is explicitly mentioned as a possible male love interest.

OK so there's not all that many, I get your point.

[Googleshng]

I can't really think of much in the way of characters in any given AP specifically tossed in to serve as love interests. Jade Regent has a bunch, and there's a pretty nice and even split to them...

Spoiler:

(3:1 to start off, but if we leave out Koya, it's 2:1, the Ulfens make it 3:2, Jiro and Hatsue bring it to 4:3. Miyaro would skew it again, but if you're counting the fox girl you may as well count the wolf guy, and I'm drawing the line at the pair of angels. And really, Ameiko's pretty well not interested in a romantic relationship with anyone, so, we're good on that one I think.

Rise of the Runelords actually has more male options by my count.

Spoiler:

It has one of each in the first chapter, with baggage (although I believe Aldern is specifically called out as straight and Shayliss is as-party-composition-demands). at a stretch you could toss Ameiko and Shalelu on the list again, but the former has a lot to deal with and the latter is destined to skip out to appear in Second Darkness. Really though, if you're counting them, might as well toss in Hemlock and Zantus. Skewing a little old on the male side so far, but then you have the black arrows who absolutely work, and are all male.

Crimson Throne seems like it leans heavily female at first glance, but I think it's a pretty good mix when you factor in...

Spoiler:

the queen kinda calling dibs on all but two attractive female characters in the city, and one of the others being a cleric of freaking Zon-Kuthon. Meanwhile for male options you basiccally have the Dread Pirate Roberts and Khal Drogo. And I guess the other Kuthonite, technically.

Second Darkness I don't want to double check because I'm in it at the moment and don't want to remind myself of any spoilers, but if I properly recall, you move around too much to ever really establish a longterm relationship with anyone, and there's a general lack of goodhearted wholesome characters.

Legacy of Fire has... Haleen, possibly? Father Zastoran? Dashki? Radi? maybe Almah if you really work at it? Pickings are pretty slim. If you don't mind the age factor, I think Rayhan is honestly your best bet.

Kingmaker is an odd case because so many friendly NPCs are already spoken for or crazy old hermits, and most of the rest are decidedly not human. Eliminate all those and it's all guys from your ruling council starter set until you're pretty far in.

So yeah, I'd say if there's a trend here, it's relatively recent.

[Deadmanwalking]

So! I appear to be starting with Serpent's Skull. I'm including characters with art and level breakdowns who will be traveling with or associating with the PCs extensively, even if they lack full stats. So here we go:

Souls For Smuggler's Shiv:

Aerys Mavato - Female, castaway
Jask Derindi - Male, castaway
Sasha Nevah - Female, castaway
Aycendia - Female, friendly dryad...stripperiffic picture

So, 3 Female, 1 Male.

Racing To Ruin:

Amivor Glaur - Male, guy on the cover, Pathfinder Leader
Kassata Lewynn - Female, woman on the cover of part 1, Free Companies aka Pirate leader
Chivane - Female, woman on the cover of part 3, Red Mantis Leader
Athyra - Female, skimpily clad Barbarian you can make an ally with a bit of diplomacy
There's also theoretically Rotilius Havilar, but with a seriously unpleasant personality, from description, and no picture I'm not counting him.

That's 3 Female, 1 Male, again. With maybe 1 more male, but I wouldn't count him. Some are potentially mutually exclusive, but that can be worked around.

City of Seven Spears:

Juliver - Female, rescued adventurer

Only one, female.

Vaults of Madness:

None

No new ones.

The Thousand Fangs Below:

Vedavrex Misraria - Female, Drow Assassin, but you can easily ally with her, and she's attractive, so she goes on the list
Deloral Parastric - Male, Drow and Evil, but, like the female Drow you can ally with him, and he's attractive. She's there to kill him, though, so they're mutually exclusive barring some crazy Diplomacy
Eando Kline - Male, something of a celebrity among people who read the early APs, pretty awesome
There's also the Succubus...but as an infiltrator out to betray the PCs, I'm not counting her

One female, two male. But one of the males and the female are mutually exclusive. There's another female who might count, but I'm not counting her, which means I'm rounding down on both genders now.

Sanctum of the Serpent God:

None...unless you count the cyclops, which I do not.

None here

Total: So, 8 female, 4 male. One more of each that's highly borderline.

So far, that seems to bear out the 'not enough men' idea.

[Mikaze]

Googleshng wrote:

Crimson Throne seems like it leans heavily female at first glance, but I think it's a pretty good mix when you factor in...
** spoiler omitted **

I can say without a doubt that one particular character being of a particular faith does absolutely nothing to deter all romantic interest from PCs.

Quite the contrary, it turns out... :)

Deadmanwalking wrote:

The Thousand Fangs Below spoiler

That and he looks like Roy Khan. ;)

[Deadmanwalking]

Mikaze wrote:

That and he looks like Roy Khan. ;)

Indeed. :)

More APs later. Legacy of Fire or CotCT is likely next. And I may throw Reign of Winter in as well, as I've read Rasputin Must Die! already, though not the rest, and am thoroughly spoiled.

[Judy Bauer]

An editor swims up out of the depths of the Gen Con Crunch to dot this thread for study.

[GreyWolfLord]

In the other thread that turned into something different this was brought up.

As a PF gamer that games in a group primarily of women (actually, it's all the players ARE women) it has been noted about how the AP's seem more slanted towards certain demographics (which is understandable I suppose as a majority playing are probably males with a certain focus). However, they would prefer if there were more options and writing in regards to their enjoyment (and it didn't help that the first AP we ran was CoT which ended up with me just about lynched on part two by portraying the guys as they were written...lesson...I should have modified that particular module).

So, at least my group has noticed a distinct disparity in that regards.

[Lamontius]

Joana wrote:

I went into The Wormwood Mutiny with high hopes. It's a whole pirate ship! There's got to be a Johnny Depp or Orlando Bloom on board somewhere, right? Nope.

Major NPCs of The Wormwood Mutiny:

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **...

I am sorry you could not find fun romantic options on a pirate ship commanded by horrible people where you are press-ganged into service and battling for your life virtually every minute of a given day

[Wrong John Silver]

Pan wrote:

Does this really need to be a thing? As GM can you just add interests if your players want them?

I think so, and here's why.

First, not all GMs are ready to introduce new NPCs to the AP. It's a major help to make sure that potential love interests are present for all possible characters, already written into the story.

Second, the player base might skew male and hetero, but that doesn't necessarily mean the character base does. I'm a straight man, but I regularly play characters of all sorts of genders and orientations. If I decide to play a straight female character, it would be nice to have men to choose from.

Third, although I don't think there necessarily needs to be a 1:1 male-female ratio of love interests, I do think that there should be variety available for everyone. So, multiple women and one man won't cut it. If you aren't interested in that one guy, for whatever reason, too bad.

Fourth, even when I'm playing a straight guy, I like a little competition. If I fight for the attentions of a person, it's just that much sweeter to know I beat out that other guy. And hey, when it's an NPC vying for the attention of another NPC, well, it's just bad GMing for it to be all about the two of them, with us PCs guaranteed to remain on the sidelines. No, the good story will include my actions.

Finally, I'd just like to point out that from my point of view, there aren't any potential love interests for my style of straight guy in The Wormwood Mutiny. Sandara Quinn is trying too hard. Rosie... maybe, but she's got her own crush. But hey, that's just me.

[S'mon]

I agree with Wrong John Silver (good post!) As GM, I want my female players' PCs to have potential romantic interests, same as the men. As a player, I'm a straight man but my PCs are often straight women, and some romantic opportunities for them would be great, too.

Given the huge number of 'cute girl' potential romantic interest NPCs there are in most of the APs, I definitely think the occasional 'cute guy' NPC wouldn't hurt.

BTW I do sympathise with the writers on this; I've been GMing for many years and it was only recently that I consciously created a potential romantic interest male NPC. I was very gratified when he was then pursued by 2 female and 1 male PC (and the third female probably would have too if she wasn't shy). :D He married one of the female PCs two sessions ago; I'd say it was a big success. But I found it quite hard to create the character - I couldn't just go with "what I'd like", or "what I'd want to be like"; I had to place myself in others' shoes, think of female-oriented romance movies and what sort of characteristics the male romance interest tends to have. I ended up with "Iain Glen's Sir Jorah Mormont as played by Colin Firth", which worked excellently. :D

[Kvantum]

Judy Bauer wrote:

An editor swims up out of the depths of the Gen Con Crunch to dot this thread for study.

Once again, Paizonians proving why Paizo is so popular. They're actually listening to fan complaints and issues. Whether anything is done about it or not remains to be seen, but we know they are at least trying to be aware of the issues we see from our end.

Skull and Shackles did seem to me to be the AP that's most lop-sided on the love interest gender ratio.

[Odraude]

With CotCT being the only AP I've played until the end, I remember there being a decent amount of male love interests. I'd say it was about even.

[Deadmanwalking]

Odraude wrote:

With CotCT being the only AP I've played until the end, I remember there being a decent amount of male love interests. I'd say it was about even.

I actually think you're right, and will go through it next and check...but I'm getting the impression it's the exception, not the rule.

And I would also like to note that I agree with those who think that Paizo people are awesome for paying attention to threads like this. Thanks Judy!

[Mikaze]

Thirding(fouthing?) that thanks, Judy! :D

Not to gush over Azaz and Kafog overly much, but the "pretty boy" options are much appreciated. We don't get nearly as many of those as one might expect, looking at trends among fantasy fans elsewhere.

Also really hoping those playful hints in the Empty Graves thread prove true. :) Wondering if WotR also offers any troubled male tiefling love interests/redemption-bait. That has to be a thing somewhere.(no spoilers plz)

Odraude wrote:

With CotCT being the only AP I've played until the end, I remember there being a decent amount of male love interests. I'd say it was about even.

? I count a couple, but- Oh, right!

Spoiler:

Verik! And Krojun!

[DM_aka_Dudemeister]

Also in CotC you have both:

Spoiler:

Vencarlo Orisini AND Blackjack

[Ezakim]

DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

Also in CotC you have both:

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:

Vencarlo X Blackjack is my OTP

[Sissyl]

Spoiler for CotCT:

Well, there is Gaedren Lamm, and Thousand Bones, and Pilts Swastel, and so on, but compared to Jolistina and Illeosa? No. Paizo truly did not give enough male love interests...

[Deadmanwalking]

Sissyl wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

Those are villains, not love interests. And thus beyond the scope of this thread. :)

There's potentially some overlap...but none of those qualify at all.

[Sissyl]

Oh, I dunno... :-)

[Deadmanwalking]

So, Curse of the Crimson Throne it is:

Edge of Anarchy:

Zellara - Female, ghost and mentor to the PCs...sorta. I'd call her a valid target for doomed (or not so doomed with Resurrection) love
Grau Soldado - Male, drunk when the PCs find him, but something of a romantic figure, IMO. The picture looks god for a guy coming off a bender, too
Vencarlo Orsini - Male, basically an older Zorro. Or Batman. A bit old for most PCs, but being a superhero still qualifies him for love interest in my book.
Trinia Sabor - Female, cute artist, fugitive...solid choice for lve interest.
Verik Vancaskerkin is also possible, I suppose, but highly unlikely given he almost certainly winds up in jail or dead, so I'm not counting him.

So, 2 male, 2 female.

Seven Days to the Grave:

Tayce Soldado - Female, no picture, but described as pretty...you save her daughter's life. Very possible
Ishani Dhatri - Male, Cleric and healer treating the plague, very possible

So, 1 each male and female.

Escape from Old Korvosa:

Laori Vaus - Female, worshiper of Zon-Kuthon, but as Mikaze notes that's more of a draw than an obstacle in some ways, and your probable ally

So only one, female.

A History of Ashes:

Krojun Eats What He Kills - Male, potentially friendly barbarian leader, pretty darn cool
You could theoretically add Shadowcount Sial...but I'd count him as in a relationship with his Chain Devil bodyguard Asyra, and if he counts so does she

So only one, male. There's also a couple of sorts you could split up if you like.

Skeletons of Scarwall:

No new ones.

None this chapter, though several from earlier remain potentially available.

Crown of Fangs:

Sabina Merrin - Female...okay, this one's possible, though unlikely, IMO.

So...one female, but honestly, this is seriously unlikely to happen.

Total: So, that's 5 female, 4 male (plus potentially one more of each, I guess). But all are very good possibilities and most have good reasons to stick with the PCs through large portions of the campaign.

Considering the unlikelihood of that last one, I'm gonna call this one close enough to gender-balanced for government work. Next up is probably Legacy of Fire.

[Googleshng]

You are really really reaching with that first female option in chapter 1, and the one in chapter 2 is, as you note, not illustrated or notable.

Overall though, it's probably the best AP there is for potential NPC love interests, both for variety and memorability... which is funny, because it's also the one which pushes the PCs towards starting out with spouses and children to anchor them to the city.

[Maizing]

Why do NPCs have to be young/attractive to be romantic interests?

For example... in Jade Regent, one of the campaign traits is to have a childhood crush on one of (3 out of) 4 NPCs. What would be so "wrong" about role playing a Herald and Maude style romance with Koya? Not to mention that older males can be quite sexy (think: Sean Connery!).

Just my two cents.

[Sissyl]

Sean Connery was plastic mummified in the early nineties, didn't you know?

[DM_aka_Dudemeister]

Maizing wrote:

Why do NPCs have to be young/attractive to be romantic interests?

For example... in Jade Regent, one of the campaign traits is to have a childhood crush on one of (3 out of) 4 NPCs. What would be so "wrong" about role playing a Herald and Maude style romance with Koya? Not to mention that older males can be quite sexy (think: Sean Connery!).

Just my two cents.

I used Sean Connery impression to voice a prominent character in Curse of the Crimson Throne:

Spoiler:

Vencarlo Orisini

I used Antonio Banderas impression to voice:

Spoiler:

Blackjack

.

[Deadmanwalking]

Googleshng wrote:

You are really really reaching with that first female option in chapter 1, and the one in chapter 2 is, as you note, not illustrated or notable.

The first one...she travels with the PCs the whole way and is pretty attractive, why is it reaching?

And the second...eh, maybe. I just looked at her description and it screamed 'love interest hook' in my brain...but maybe I'm reading too much into it.

Googleshng wrote:

Overall though, it's probably the best AP there is for potential NPC love interests, both for variety and memorability... which is funny, because it's also the one which pushes the PCs towards starting out with spouses and children to anchor them to the city.

I agree.

Maizing wrote:

Why do NPCs have to be young/attractive to be romantic interests?

For example... in Jade Regent, one of the campaign traits is to have a childhood crush on one of (3 out of) 4 NPCs. What would be so "wrong" about role playing a Herald and Maude style romance with Koya? Not to mention that older males can be quite sexy (think: Sean Connery!).

Just my two cents.

For the record, I'm not factoring in age. So far one of the men in CotCT is well into middle age or somewhat beyond, and one of the women is cited as 40.

Attractiveness I am factoring in to some degree, because we're looking for planned love interests, designed to appeal to a majority of people...or at least not designed to not appeal. Ignoring physical attractiveness will give a very skewed and inaccurate picture as compared to people's actual experiences.

DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

I used Sean Connery impression to voice a prominent character in Curse of the Crimson Throne:

** spoiler omitted **

I used Antonio Banderas impression to voice:

** spoiler omitted **.

Ha! That's hilarious. And appropriate. :)

[S'mon]

romance spoilers:

...I'm currently running Crimson Throne and Rise of the Runelords, and looking to run Skull & Shackles. Crimson Throne is definitely the best for potential male love interests - Vencarlo & Krojun are the obvious ones. Weirdly though, the one that's close to happening in play IMC is the anonymous Hellknight who intervenes in the Otyugh battle in chapter one! IMC he's Sir Jereth Roldare, and a very odd female Paladin of Abadar PC has been hitting on him pretty hard. :)

Runelords is great for female love interests, very short of male ones - even Sheriff Belor is already in a relationship. I guess the Fort Rannick guys are handsome, but rescuing men rarely sets them up well for romance.

Shackles is pretty rough in general, and the "sexy girls & vile guys" trope is really strong here. It's so bad I actually kinda think the editors should have caught it, changed sexy gal #15 to a Johnny Depp type maybe.

[Maizing]

Deadmanwalking wrote:

Maizing wrote:

Why do NPCs have to be young/attractive to be romantic interests?

For example... in Jade Regent, one of the campaign traits is to have a childhood crush on one of (3 out of) 4 NPCs. What would be so "wrong" about role playing a Herald and Maude style romance with Koya? Not to mention that older males can be quite sexy (think: Sean Connery!).

Just my two cents.

For the record, I'm not factoring in age. So far one of the men in CotCT is well into middle age or somewhat beyond, and one of the women is cited as 40.

Attractiveness I am factoring in to some degree, because we're looking for planned love interests, designed to appeal to a majority of people...or at least not designed to not appeal. Ignoring physical attractiveness will give a very skewed and inaccurate picture as compared to people's actual experiences.

Keep in mind that attractiveness is subjective. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that.

For example, I was in a gaming group once (a long, long time ago), where one of the members of the group made a comment (after having watched the TV show The Rockford Files), about how he considered James Garner to be a homely man, and how amazing it was that he still got ladies interested in him... yet I personally, always considered James Garner to be ruggedly handsome.

[Odraude]

Deadmanwalking wrote:

Googleshng wrote:

You are really really reaching with that first female option in chapter 1, and the one in chapter 2 is, as you note, not illustrated or notable.

The first one...she travels with the PCs the whole way and is pretty attractive, why is it reaching?

And the second...eh, maybe. I just looked at her description and it screamed 'love interest hook' in my brain...but maybe I'm reading too much into it.

Googleshng wrote:

Overall though, it's probably the best AP there is for potential NPC love interests, both for variety and memorability... which is funny, because it's also the one which pushes the PCs towards starting out with spouses and children to anchor them to the city.

I agree.

Maizing wrote:

Why do NPCs have to be young/attractive to be romantic interests?

For example... in Jade Regent, one of the campaign traits is to have a childhood crush on one of (3 out of) 4 NPCs. What would be so "wrong" about role playing a Herald and Maude style romance with Koya? Not to mention that older males can be quite sexy (think: Sean Connery!).

Just my two cents.

For the record, I'm not factoring in age. So far one of the men in CotCT is well into middle age or somewhat beyond, and one of the women is cited as 40.

Attractiveness I am factoring in to some degree, because we're looking for planned love interests, designed to appeal to a majority of people...or at least not designed to not appeal. Ignoring physical attractiveness will give a very skewed and inaccurate picture as compared to people's actual experiences.

DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

I used Sean Connery impression to voice a prominent character in Curse of the Crimson Throne:

** spoiler omitted **

I used Antonio Banderas impression to voice:

** spoiler omitted **.

Ha! That's hilarious. And appropriate. :)

It's plausible. My current character in Jade Regent has fallen in love with a spirit of a dead bard woman found in the Forest of Spirits and is looking to resurrect her from her skull. She's my Patrick Swayze :D

Also, not spoilers since this was added to the AP by my GM.

[Wrong John Silver]

And "attractiveness is subjective" is precisely why variety is so important. This is not a place where it's wise to put all your eggs in one basket.

[chopswil]

I hear there is a big Golarion issue of Tiger Beat coming soon

[KaiserDM]

I didn't realize so many people out there even cared about "romance options". I consider myself 50/50 on the roll-player vs. role-player, and it really doesn't cross my mind that much.

I like eye-candy and all as it sounds like female players like some beef cake in a way, but I play a lot 3 party adventures that don't have much art at all and I still enjoy it a lot.

In my experience as a PC I've had a "significant other" twice. In one campaign it was just something I added. I had a pally redeeming an abused prostitute that was a great roleplaying experience that the DM and I ran with on the fly. She became a stabilizing force for my conflicted crusader. It was awesome.

In the second, I was a war cleric whose wife's kidnapping was a hook for a second part of the campaign I played in. In neither adventure did I have so much as a portrait of what those NPC's looked like.

[Chris Lambertz]

Removed a post. Sexist remarks and generalizations about gender aren't appropriate. Let's keep this thread on topic.

[Adjule]

Hopefully, they could have more non-human love interests as well. Such as dwarves, or gnomes, or orcs. Even toss in some of the suggestions in that one about non-traditional and monstrous relationships. Such as a minotaur or gnoll or even an ogre. Although characters such as those, being "enemy races", probably won't happen at all. Especially if they are female.

Though it is nice to see games where PCs and NPCs could romance each other. Those never happen in the games I end up playing in.

So, my opinion would be more non-human love interests added to the APs.

[Gorbacz]

Qlippoth love interests is where my money is at.

[Tirisfal]

Gorbacz wrote:

Qlippoth love interests is where my money is at.

Oh baby, all those madness-inducing tentacly bits.

[Wrong John Silver]

Gorbacz wrote:

Qlippoth love interests is where my money is at.

So speaks the Bag of Devouring.

(Memo to me: do not include the words "love interest" and "Bag of Devouring" in the same post ever again.)

[GreyWolfLord]

It looks like my post was deleted?

I wonder why Paizo listens to guys but deletes the post written by a group of women?

I wont repost, as Paizo apparently does NOT want to make male NPC love interests that women would be interested in.

I have two women here with me that are a little infuriated right now, as I was posting their comments to me as I was writing (previously), and it was their comments that were deleted.

I now have to see if they even want to continue with PF (and we just rolled up a new party last night...which could stink if the group decides to scrap it). (edit: Luckily it's only two of six that are angry right now...anger can be contagious with this group though)

I'm am currently getting an earful (I'm not sure if they are blaming me or Paizo for deleting their comments on what they'd find interesting in males, and male NPC's) from them about male chauvinistic...okay...I'm not going to go there...

I think judging from their reactions is...while we understand why Paizo caters to it's main sales units...do they even WANT WOMEN AS GAMERS for PF?

Now I'm stuck with trying to point out the good points they've found (Paizo has some women leadership...and there are several AP's with very strong women leads).

And that went over like a rock with them. Their counter is if Paizo is so concerned about sexism and generalization...and the women leadership is so involved...why is there so much sexism and generalization against women in the AP's?

This is bad. I think perhaps that could answer the questions in regards to why the AP's don't have as much investment into women gamers, the treatment and attitudes towards their comments and what they would talk about are tossed out while the male perspective of what they want or think women want in the AP's are kept in.

And I'm done, I'm having a major revolt right now and it looks like I am going to have to dodge a dish...

And I think they are angry against Paizo and not me...but I'm not so sure with how they took that post deletion....

[Jessica Price]

Your post was deleted because it was making sweeping gender generalizations that were irrelevant to the discussion. If you have questions or concerns about moderation policies, please direct them to [e-mail]