Promoting a business gets resources per day? Or once per promotion?


Rules Questions


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Promote a Business downtime rules:

You can spend 1 day of downtime to increase interest in a business, temple, organization, or other local fixture. You can also spend one type of capital, depending on how you want to promote the business. For example, if you want to promote a bakery, you can spend Goods giving out free pastries to people in town, Influence to get the mayor to visit the bakery and praise its food, Labor to hire workers to stand with signboards advertising the bakery, or Magic for a memorable illusion that draws people to the bakery.

The promotion increases activity at the site for 1d6 days. Choose one capital the building generates, then attempt a skill check for using skilled work to earn capital, using Diplomacy, Knowledge (local), or Spellcraft. Add 5 to your check result for every 1 point of Goods, Influence, Labor, or Magic you spent to promote the business, then use the skilled work option to determine how many additional resources the business generates over the course of this increased activity. If you're promoting an organization without a physical building, each Good, Influence, Labor, or Magic adds only 2 to the check instead of 5—it's harder to encourage people to be patrons of something they can't physically visit.

The business you promote with this downtime activity doesn't have to be one you own.

If the building or organization does not generate capital (such as charity that takes care of war orphans), the promotion generates either gp or Influence (your choice) .

I'm wondering about the bolded portion. Do you gain the additional resources for EACH DAY of the promotional period? Or do you only gain them once for the entire promotional period?

For example, say my sage sorceress has a +14 Spellcraft modifier. Her library opens tomorrow, and so she decides to promote its grand opening by spending 10 capital in the hopes that it will generate more Magic capital.

She takes 10 on her check and gets 24, then adds another 50 due to the capital she spent for a total of 74. Her library will no generate an additional 7 Magic capital "over the course of this increased activity."

Say she gets a 4 on the 1d6, so the promotional benefits will last for 4 days.

For each of those four days she uses the Run Your Business downtime option. She uses 1 hour of research in her own library's Magical Repository to gain a +3 bonus to her Spellcraft checks, then takes 10 on her check each day getting 27, but then she adds the library's Magic modifier of +25, along with an additional +10 bonus for being physically present to whip her employees into shape. That gets her a total of 62, enough to earn 6 magic a day, or 24 magic by the end of the promotional period.

But what about the Business Promotion bonus? Is it +7 per day, or just +7? At the end of the promotional business, should she have 31 magic, or 52 magic?

I hope that made sense.


I'm curious to know this too. Anyone got an answer to this man's question?


Hey, this came up in our game just today. How fortunate is the timing on this thread? :P

EDIT: Nevermind. It doesn't look like anyone's interested in finding an answer.


I was about to say it's obvious, but then I realized it's not.

I would say that "over the course" means "total for the period", not "per day". Except, then, why are we saying "for 1d6 days"? Because it doesn't matter at all if the total is just a total.

So I think they probably intend it to mean per-day, but wrote it ambiguously. Usually, "produces X additional resources over the course of Y" would imply X total per Y, but in context I think it's an accident.


I'm a business owner and in terms of business language, it means at the end of the time frame (you get the change to increase your resources 1 time). I can go into more detail into the specific reasons for this if you want.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Sarrah wrote:
I'm a business owner and in terms of business language, it means at the end of the time frame (you get the change to increase your resources 1 time). I can go into more detail into the specific reasons for this if you want.

Would I not earn more by simply taking the earn capital option with my business to get the +10 bonus then? And like Seebs said, what is the point of adding "1d6 days" to the verbiage, it I only get the capital bonus once?


If you you get it at the end of the time frame (as Sarrah suggested), then the 1d6 days tells you how long it takes before you get that bonus.


What's surprising about that interpretation is that, under that, you're best off if you roll a 1, because that minimizes the time before you get the bonus. That seems counterintuitive.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
seebs wrote:
What's surprising about that interpretation is that, under that, you're best off if you roll a 1, because that minimizes the time before you get the bonus. That seems counterintuitive.

Is there anything keeping you from promoting it for 3 days, getting bonus stacking resources each time?

Scarab Sages

I believe it means over the entire course, not per day. The only reason to roll per day is to see how quickly this is determined.

For example, if you generate 10 extra whatever and roll a 1 on the d6, then you generated that extra 10 over 1 day. If you roll a 6, it took nearly a week to do it. In this case, rolling lower on the d6 seems to be the better option. It represents a giant influx of customers on a single day, as opposed to spreading them out over many. Either way, the end extra gain is the same.

I haven't really used the Downtime rules much before, but just reading it that seems to be the intent.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Except you only need to spend 1 day of downtime to get the entire ball rolling.

What happens if I take the "promote a business" action on Monday, Tuesday, AND Wednesday? Do all the checks, bonuses, and time periods work independently of each other?

Scarab Sages

It gets a little sketchier there. I think the easiest way to treat it would be to say you can't "promote a business" while a business is still under the effects of a promotion. It doesn't outright say that, it may not be the intent, but it's a simple ruling that should avoid too much complexity.


http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pyas?UC-promoting-a-business-wording#3

Figured I'd spread the love, though about two months late.

From the answer I got way back, it sounds like each day gets the bonus (which is nice), otherwise this spell would be a horrible thing to do to yourself.

Cheers


Pulling a 5 year Necro on this thread in hopes for a definitive answer possibly with a couple of examples relating to business booms spell and the actual benefits of spending capital to promote a business


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Day: The downtime system measures time in days rather than hours, minutes, or rounds. Most downtime activities require you to spend at least 1 day on the activity.

Promote a Business is an Activity. This happens before the Income phase.

The unit of time for downtime is the day, and you get one skill check each day spent as downtime. This Activity's result affects multiple days of checks, and you add the bonus to the check.

To me this means you apply the bonus to each check made over the 1d6 days. The promotion is not worth it if 1d6 rolls a 1, since the bonus equates to 0.5 capital gained per day for each 1 capital spent. If you roll a 2, it is break even. At 3 or higher, it generates profit.

If the bonus only applies once after 1d6 days, that is equivalent to rolling a 1. That makes it always a loss. I don't think that is what they intended.

/cevah


@ Cevah

I thought this also but if so Im reading the spell Business-Booms to mean that the building is getting 're-promoted' everyday it is active for another 1d6 days per spell day. You throw in a couple of 6's there and by day 5 you are generating a huge amount of resources


I'm just going to point out that even if you only get one bonus to a resource generated, it is a good deal. By running a promotion you are in effect trading 2 resources you have for an opportunity to buy 1 you can generate.

Lets say I'm using magic item creation to fuel my rapid growth of a business empire. I have a business that lets me create 1 magic, 1 influence, 1 labor and 1 goods per day. Well magic naturally gets used up to create items. Labor and Goods get sucked up into making more business to produce more resources. Influence...can't seem to use up all the influence I could create.

Every influence costs me 15g. Spending 2 influence (30gp cost, 60gp value) equals a +10 bonus during a promotion. Which means its equal to a resource. Naturally since I'm funding my empire by crafting magic items, it magic resource. 50gp cost, 100gp value. That 30 from the 2 influence gets added to the cost here, so in effect I pay 80gp for 100gp in value. Not terribly efficient but if I'm waiting to get enough magic resources to create magic items its worth sinking our profits from 50gp per resource to only 20gp. Though once you can create as many magic resources as you can consume each day there is no reason for you to continue using promotions to generate magic resources.

But early on, it would be a way to accelerate your business.


Screaminjim wrote:

@ Cevah

I thought this also but if so Im reading the spell Business-Booms to mean that the building is getting 're-promoted' everyday it is active for another 1d6 days per spell day. You throw in a couple of 6's there and by day 5 you are generating a huge amount of resources

You are stacking bonuses that are from the same source.

Best additional promotion does is to extend the number of days of increased activity. Same for repeated spells. I am not sure that the increased activity of the spell stacks with the increased activity of promotion. Even if it did, that would only double the return on investment.

@Meirril: if you spend the same kind of capitol that you choose to generate, and you roll a 1 on 1d6 or treat the bonus as occurring at the end of the time, then you loose. If you spend Goods or Labor, but Generate Magic, that is the best trade.

/cevah


Meirril wrote:

I'm just going to point out that even if you only get one bonus to a resource generated, it is a good deal. By running a promotion you are in effect trading 2 resources you have for an opportunity to buy 1 you can generate.

Lets say I'm using magic item creation to fuel my rapid growth of a business empire. I have a business that lets me create 1 magic, 1 influence, 1 labor and 1 goods per day. Well magic naturally gets used up to create items. Labor and Goods get sucked up into making more business to produce more resources. Influence...can't seem to use up all the influence I could create.

Every influence costs me 15g. Spending 2 influence (30gp cost, 60gp value) equals a +10 bonus during a promotion. Which means its equal to a resource. Naturally since I'm funding my empire by crafting magic items, it magic resource. 50gp cost, 100gp value. That 30 from the 2 influence gets added to the cost here, so in effect I pay 80gp for 100gp in value. Not terribly efficient but if I'm waiting to get enough magic resources to create magic items its worth sinking our profits from 50gp per resource to only 20gp. Though once you can create as many magic resources as you can consume each day there is no reason for you to continue using promotions to generate magic resources.

But early on, it would be a way to accelerate your business.

I think it would be marginally more efficient, at least from a gold piece standpoint, to trade 5 Influence for 1 Magic, since that's effectively paying 75 gp (15 * 5) for 100 gp of crafting. I can see being willing to take the 5 gp hit on monetary efficiency to do things faster, though. Although, on the other hand, that extra point of Capital one can earn for Running a Business might actually be better than taking the day to do the Promotion in some cases, especially without the Business Booms spell.

OTOH, if you're using the Prosperous Room spell, I can see why you would want to continue to benefit from that and so wouldn't take the Running a Business downtime action.

.

As an aside, converting Goods and Labor (10 gp each) into Magic at the same 5 for 1 rate will actually result in the same overall cost as Magic capital (50 gp), too, so after a certain point, you can view anything that produces Goods or Labor as producing that much Magic over the course of 5 days. Which could be significant, since, IIRC, Gardens are one of the more efficient Room types for how much of a bonus to producing Capital they have for how much it costs to make them.


Okay so if business booms wouldn't stack why would you cast it at all? Also it is saying that you should pay the promotional rate each day it is active which would mean casting the spell would cost you up to 5 times the resources you put in. This spell and it's use are what originally made me question the promote a business in the first place. If it doesn't stack I can't see a benefit to casting it if it does it is crazy strong. I feel like I'm missing something


You pay the promotion once. It nets you 1d6 days o boom. Average 3.5 days.
If you use the spell, it nets you a boom. Minimum 2, maximum 5 days.
Once you hit CL8, the spell is better.

The spell may stack with a promotion (I don't thin so, but can see an argument for it). The spell won't stack with itself, but only extend the duration, maybe. The words of the spell say "If the spell is cast on a building that you do not promote immediately thereafter, the spell is expended with no effect.", so it might not extend itself.

Likewise additional downtime promotion won't stack with itself, but it can extend the duration.

The spell does say "During this time, you needn’t spend additional downtime to promote the building, but you must spend capital as normal to promote the building." What is the amount spent "as normal"? Zero.

/cevah

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