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The title says it all. If i have a small earth elemental as a familiar, can it do stuff like wear armor, use wands, carry equipment? It is the only familiar with a truly solid body, and they CAN hold a rigid and normal form. they can speak and manipulate objects. Is there any ruling anywhere that says if they or cannot use equipment like this?
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I use this.
If you are using animal companions or familiars from another source, you can use the information in this table as a guideline for those creatures. Additionally, GMs may use this table as a guide to determine what kinds of magical gear non-humanoid monsters can wear and use. Note that the rules in this section are merely suggestions, and ultimately it is up to the GM to decide what kinds of animals can use particular types of magic items.
I am saying no to the elemental for my player.
But that is me.
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Elemental Traits
An elemental is a being composed entirely from one of the four classical elements: air, earth, fire, or water.
An elemental has the following features.
-Immunity to bleed, paralysis, poison, sleep effects, and stunning.
-Not subject to critical hits or flanking. Does not take additional damage from precision-based attacks, such as sneak attack.
-Proficient with natural weapons only, unless generally humanoid in form, in which case proficient with all simple weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
-Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Elementals not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Elementals are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
Elementals do not breathe, eat, or sleep.
If they have a humanoid shape, then yes, they can in fact do all those things.
Of course, that depends on whether they have a humanoid shape. Looking at the description for earth elementals (the bit that gets repeated across all the entries for them)
Earth elementals are plodding, stubborn creatures made of living stone or earth. When utterly still, they resemble a heap of stone or a small hill.
When an earth elemental lumbers into action, its actual appearance can vary, although its statistics remain identical to other elementals of its size. Most earth elementals look like terrestrial animals made out of rock, earth, or even crystal, with glowing gemstones for eyes. Larger earth elementals often have a stony humanoid appearance. Bits of vegetation frequently grow in the soil that makes up parts of an earth elemental's body.
So according to this, a small earth elemental (such as the ones that are used as familiars) might be restricted to things like turtles, bulls, large dog things, and such. Larger forms (...such as the ones that druids turn into with wildshape maybe?) can have humanoid forms though.
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Earth elementals are plodding, stubborn creatures made of living stone or earth. When utterly still, they resemble a heap of stone or a small hill.
When an earth elemental lumbers into action, its actual appearance can vary, although its statistics remain identical to other elementals of its size. Most earth elementals look like terrestrial animals made out of rock, earth, or even crystal, with glowing gemstones for eyes. Larger earth elementals often have a stony humanoid appearance. Bits of vegetation frequently grow in the soil that makes up parts of an earth elemental's body.
An earth elemental that takeshumanoid shape would be able to wear armor and wield weapons, although they're probably not proficient with them. IIRC, outsiders are proficient with the equipment they're statted with in the Bestiary (none, for earth elementals).
I'd say yes, BUT the real question in my mind is whether an earth elemental can wear or carry equipment while earth gliding. I haven't researched the topic, but I'm inclined to say no earth gliding with equipment.
Interesting question. But looking at other abilities that grant earthglide (Gray Disciple monks, stone mystery oracles, deep earth or kobold bloodline sorcerers, earth elemental school wizards, the spell earthglide, and, most importantly, elemental body) make no mention of your equipment being adversely affected by earth glide.
So....this might be a good development for my idea of a druid that turns into a large earth elemental (complete with cave domain to get tremor sense), and just buys large armor and weapons.
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I think they should be able to earth glide, honestly. I would say this. Armor? SUre, if he's only ever gonna take one shape, if he changes shapes at all, the armor would break or just fall off. HOWEVER, he could, in fact, most likely wear a bag or satchel. He can speak, and manipulate objects. probably wear a belt (and in most forms keep it, as a thing wrapped around it's 'middle'. from what i read above, it's saying the earth elementals can take ANY form they like, animals, humanoids, whatever. so they could use things like belts, bags, bracers even. if they wear anything specifically humanoid (Armor, helmets, gloves, boots) they could only use them while in that form. and the elemental would probably not want to stay in that form forever). they can have hands, can manipulate objects, and also can speak, so they could use scrolls or wands. i can totally imagine a pile of rocks, with what appears to be a messenger bag or satchel kinda tangled up in the rocks, with what appears to be some bracers buried in some rocks and dirt. you reach down to grab it, and the rocks move, and turn into a small elemental wearing the bracers and with the bag around it's middle, growling at you in Terran.
The title says it all. If i have a small earth elemental as a familiar, can it do stuff like wear armor, use wands, carry equipment? It is the only familiar with a truly solid body, and they CAN hold a rigid and normal form. they can speak and manipulate objects. Is there any ruling anywhere that says if they or cannot use equipment like this?
I am going to FAQ this just so it might get an official answer one day.
The title says it all. If i have a small earth elemental as a familiar, can it do stuff like wear armor, use wands, carry equipment? It is the only familiar with a truly solid body, and they CAN hold a rigid and normal form. they can speak and manipulate objects. Is there any ruling anywhere that says if they or cannot use equipment like this?I am going to FAQ this just so it might get an official answer one day.
Me too. But don't get your hopes high. The question has been asked many times. Would be good to know for the stone lords, too.
It's odd, but Earthglide works just fine with equipment. Look no further than your local Shaitan genie for evidence.
Partial answer to the OP's question, which the second poster referenced, is the chart on the inside cover of the Animal Archive.
If elementals have a roughly humanoid shape, they are proficient with all simple weapons and any weapons noted in their stat blocks. They are not proficient with armor, unless armor is noted in their stat block. They would be capable of wearing armor, though. That is all noted in the Elemental Traits entry quoted above.
I don't see why an elemental companion wouldn't be able to make use of other items.
As for Earth Glide, it's an interesting question but I'd err towards allowing it unless specifically told otherwise.
The problam is / how do you determin if earth elementals are humanoid or not? Where does it say a Druid can choose ?
The closest answer we have for that is found in the descriptions of the elementals, and their reach/size ratio.
Most earth elementals look like terrestrial animals made out of rock, earth, or even crystal, with glowing gemstones for eyes. Larger earth elementals often have a stony humanoid appearance. Bits of vegetation frequently grow in the soil that makes up parts of an earth elemental's body.
You will also note that at large size (where space and reach starts to differ depending on body type), elementals have a reach of 10 and a space of 10. According to the Creature Size table, this means that it is of the 'tall' type. Generally, that would make it more likely that they have a humanoid space than that of a 'terrestrial animal'.
But since the entry says that 'larger' ones take humanoid form, and large is the first size category where you could see an appreciable difference on the stat block, then it would not be too strict to say that only large and bigger elementals can take humanoid shapes.
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The problam is / how do you determin if earth elementals are humanoid or not? Where does it say a Druid can choose ?
Where does it say they are suddenly treated as non-humanoid?
It is certainly not in the rules for elementals, which allow elementals their desired form and provides guidelines on what those desired forms may be.
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2. no gear will follow in earth glide.
I don't see any text saying either that gear does, or that it doesn't follow you. The Earth School of wizardry also grants Earthglide, and if those wizards had to do so naked, that seems worth an explicit note to me.
The problam is / how do you determin if earth elementals are humanoid or not? Where does it say a Druid can choose ?Where does it say they are suddenly treated as non-humanoid?
It is certainly not in the rules for elementals, which allow elementals their desired form and provides guidelines on what those desired forms may be.
1. humanoid does not mean he got hands or fingers... slam attack show its more like a club
Zombies get slam attacks, too. So having a slam attack does not mean something does not have fingers.
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Zombies get slam attacks, too. So having a slam attack does not mean something does not have fingers.The problam is / how do you determin if earth elementals are humanoid or not? Where does it say a Druid can choose ?Where does it say they are suddenly treated as non-humanoid?
It is certainly not in the rules for elementals, which allow elementals their desired form and provides guidelines on what those desired forms may be.
1. humanoid does not mean he got hands or fingers... slam attack show its more like a club
Same for sasquatches.
Same for sasquatches.Zombies get slam attacks, too. So having a slam attack does not mean something does not have fingers.The problam is / how do you determin if earth elementals are humanoid or not? Where does it say a Druid can choose ?Where does it say they are suddenly treated as non-humanoid?
It is certainly not in the rules for elementals, which allow elementals their desired form and provides guidelines on what those desired forms may be.
1. humanoid does not mean he got hands or fingers... slam attack show its more like a club
Are ape hands more like clubs? Do they lack fingers?
Plus their subtype directly mentions the possibility for them to use (simple) weapons if they are humanoid in shape. Even if we are talking about elemental body/wildshape, that is still fairly strong evidence of hands.
And as I have said, for point 2, I have seen absolutely no textual evidence that earthglide can't take equipment with them. There are over a dozen options for this ability on a PC, and none of them mention anything about equipment. Maybe this is something people are remembering from a previous edition?
For the original question.
Armor: Yes they CAN wear armor but they are not proficient with it. Also In my opinion an elemental may have to make concentration checks during combat, or during very distracting times such as on a ship during a very rough storm, to hold a very specific shape in order to fill the armor. If it fails, the form changes and the armor may come loose or worse break(Nat 1). This comes from how they can take any shape they want for the most part so they would be a fluid entity to some degree in the least.
Wands: Sure if they can cast spells in the first place as the requirement for wands or UMD. Otherwise they can hold it and have a potentially neat stick...
Weapons: Sure they can hold and use them, but again the proficiencies.
Carry Equipment: eh why not. But sleep with your eyes open, an earth elemental might not appreciate being used as a pack mule.
This is what I would say as a GM anyway.
As a side note, imagine what a blacksmith would say to someone if they showed up with an earth elemental asking for a suit of armor and a waraxe for his little friend...
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1. humanoid does not mean he got hands or fingers... slam attack show its more like a clubThe problam is / how do you determin if earth elementals are humanoid or not? Where does it say a Druid can choose ?Where does it say they are suddenly treated as non-humanoid?
It is certainly not in the rules for elementals, which allow elementals their desired form and provides guidelines on what those desired forms may be.
You are right. Now, show me in the rules where your human has hands and fingers.
2. no gear will follow in earth glide.
Again, show me that in the rules. There are quite a few PC gained options that allow earthglide without assuming elemental form, so you should have plenty of places to look for that ruling.
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sad this ability is written so poorly!
The ability is not written poorly.
Every time somebody decides they don't like an ability, they start in with obtuse rules interpretations or the arguement "It does not explicitly say you can." The rule books could weigh 50 lbs, be written like legal texts, and still not be all inclusive.
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well, the only place there is a description of them is dnd ..."club like hands..."
As opposed to Pathfinder, where elementals are proficient in the use of simple weapons, which would required hands to manipulate.
also, creator note of pathfinder claim earthglide and gear wont work...
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l7ns&page=685?Ask-James-Jacobs-ALL-your-Qu estions-Here#34237
At 8th level, you gain the ability to move through earth, dirt, and stone for a number of rounds per day equal to your wizard level. You cannot move through worked earth or stone; only natural substances can be traversed. If your total duration expires before you exit the earth, you are flung back to the point where you entered the stone, take 4d6 points of damage, and are stunned for 1 round. Your burrowing does not leave a hole, nor does it give any sign of your presence (although you can be detected by creatures with tremorsense). These rounds do not need to be consecutive.
Are you arguing this works only if the wizard is naked?
Earth Glide (Ex) When the creature burrows, it can pass through stone, dirt, or almost any other sort of earth except metal as easily as a fish swims through water. If protected against fire damage, it can even glide through lava. Its burrowing leaves behind no tunnel or hole, nor does it create any ripple or other sign of its presence. A move earth spell cast on an area containing the burrowing creature flings it back 30 feet, stunning it for 1 round unless it succeeds on a DC 15 Fortitude save.
Nothing about gear either way.
Oread Earth Glider
The earth welcomes you, showing you the secret paths through sand and soil.
Prerequisites: Oread Burrower, Stony Step, character level 13th, oread.
Benefit: You gain the earth glide universal monster ability and can use it to travel at your full base speed through sand, dirt, clay, gravel, or similar materials. If protected against fire damage, you can even burrow through lava. You can burrow through solid stone at 1/2 your base speed.
No mention of the PC needing to leave his gear behind.
So....this might be a good development for my idea of a druid that turns into a large earth elemental (complete with cave domain to get tremor sense), and just buys large armor and weapons.I can vouch this is an effective build from personal experience. I should have TPK'd party with a below level CR this way. I pulled a few punches and had the druid earthglide away when is was equally likely that either the last man standing or the druid could die.A spring attack Druid with cave domain or tremor boots can kill any non flyer alone ... With earth elemental spring attack earth glide tactics .....
Add weapon and gear and he will also have super armor class ( improve cover ) ....
Further proof that druids are the best ninjas. I mean, what assassin can beat turning into a bird, flying in the window when everyone is asleep, and then turning back and just stabbing the guy before birding out again and fleeing?
But that, that is some straight up anime junk right there (and I love it). We all that guy, that goes underground and stabs you when you least expect it.
I like spears for this idea. Because 1.) a large spear is basically a greatsword with a x3 crit and 2.) since earthglide lets you move around like it was water, then why not use water rules? Might not be entirely right with that one, but it seems like enough of a reason for me to buy it.
EDIT: read the link to James Jacob's post. It makes a lot more sense than 'you can't bring anything'. Instead, it says you just have to use your borrow ability like someone that doesn't have earthglide (so the ground does get disturbed by your presence). Fair enough. I can understand the logic there, that your body can fuse with the ground, but that your equipment has to be drug around like a normal physical object.
That doesn't stop me from still going underground and stabbing fools from below while being protected by the earth. Heck, it doesn't even look like you are slowed down by this. And if you actually have to be sneaky? Then you have to just have strip (yes, yes, show those sexy stalactites)