More often than not I find that most magic in fiction depends upon the stamina of the caster. Or atleast how MUCH of it you can put out. Most of the time it's an inborn ability to cast(which is then nurtured through practice) rather than study.
"Mana Pool" mechanics is supported by literature.
That said, "Why not both?" is a question I ask myself quite often.
"How dare you print that book using commas!" :)
4e was a success for all tabletop gaming due to it drawing in new crowds to the hobby.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
If only the rules were available directly from the publisher on the Internet for free.
If only the rules were available directly from the publisher on the Internet for free.MADNESS.
So now I'm not only dumb for not wanting PF 2.0, but also dumb for walking into my local game store and laying down the cash to purchase the Ultimate Combat hardcover I didn't have because I could just use the internet and a computer to get the information. . .
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'll also say that sticking with the same edition for too long will stagnate new interest in your game. 4e was a success for all tabletop gaming due to it drawing in new crowds to the hobby. Say I'm a potential newcomer to the hobby and I look up Pathfinder Books and see a huge list of 20 odd books. Wow! That's gonna put me off a bit.
There has to be new books to sell every month, and there has to be with of them sold to keep the company in the black. Eventually the number of new players put off by the number of existing (and especially number of out of print books) will exceed the number of existing customers that will revolt over a new edition. It's a financial inevitability that there will eventually be a revision. I'm hoping that it also asked for the creation of a better ruleset at the same time.
4e was a success for all tabletop gaming due to it drawing in new crowds to the hobby.NO
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
*Sigh* All these people just refusing to buy a new edition that hasn't even been announced yet.
You claim that you wouldn't buy the next edition.... However, if you decide that the next edition is better and that you would have more fun playing it you probably will start buying it.
So now I'm not only dumb for not wanting PF 2.0, but also dumb for walking into my local game store and laying down the cash to purchase the Ultimate Combat hardcover I didn't have because I could just use the internet and a computer to get the information. . .If only the rules were available directly from the publisher on the Internet for free.MADNESS.
I wouldn't say dumb. I'd actually thank you for putting your money down in support of this wonderful company. If I had more money I'd certainly spend it on peripheral for this game.
I'd say dumping your support because they wanted to improve their game so that everyone could enjoy it more is petty.
I'd say thinking that Paizo Publishing could survive on a sole edition through countless releases of material might be a bit unrealistic.
So now I'm not only dumb for not wanting PF 2.0, but also dumb for walking into my local game store and laying down the cash to purchase the Ultimate Combat hardcover I didn't have because I could just use the internet and a computer to get the information. . .If only the rules were available directly from the publisher on the Internet for free.MADNESS.I wouldn't say dumb. I'd actually thank you for putting your money down in support of this wonderful company. If I had more money I'd certainly spend it on peripheral for this game.
I'd say dumping your support because they wanted to improve their game so that everyone could enjoy it more is petty.
I'd say thinking that Paizo Publishing could survive on a sole edition through countless releases of material might be a bit unrealistic.
I will say, while I wont buy immediatly a new game, I might buy it if it shows interesting traits. I'm not a first adopter by nature, so it will take value for me to spend.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
So now I'm not only dumb for not wanting PF 2.0, but also dumb for walking into my local game store and laying down the cash to purchase the Ultimate Combat hardcover I didn't have because I could just use the internet and a computer to get the information. . .If only the rules were available directly from the publisher on the Internet for free.MADNESS.
The point is that any accusations of a new splatbook (or edition) being a "cash grab" are shut down, full stop, as long as the PRD exists.
Hey Mr. Love, you know that you can keep playing with your books, right? The same way people still play with heir 4e, 3.5, 3rd (some people do! especially here where 3.5 books actually weren't relased translated), 2nd, AD&D, OD&D, Basic, etc books. despite those editions no longer being supported.
The PF2 strikeforce won't come to your house and burn down your secret stash of illegal roleplaying books. Your purchaces will not be invalidated.
Also, unless you have evey single book, every single AP, and have even got all the third party books you want... why do you even care? You'll have content to purchase long, loooong after the last PF CRB rolls off the prints if that's what you want.
And through awesome online gaming sites you can always find a game.
Today's Age of Gaming is quite grand.
*Sigh* All these people just refusing to buy a new edition that hasn't even been announced yet.
You claim that you wouldn't buy the next edition.... However, if you decide that the next edition is better and that you would have more fun playing it you probably will start buying it.
I just got my books...
No I wouldn't buy a new edition. I'd probably go back to 3.5 with PF 1.0 splashes or PF 1.0 with 3.5 splashes.
Hey Mr. Love, you know that you can keep playing with your books, right? The same way people still play with heir 4e, 3.5, 3rd (some people do! especially here where 3.5 books actually weren't relased translated), 2nd, AD&D, OD&D, Basic, etc books. despite those editions no longer being supported.
The PF2 strikeforce won't come to your house and burn down your secret stash of illegal roleplaying books. Your purchaces will not be invalidated.
Also, unless you have evey single book, every single AP, and have even got all the third party books you want... why do you even care? You'll have content to purchase long, loooong after the last PF CRB rolls off the prints if that's what you want.
And through awesome online gaming sites you can always find a game.
Today's Age of Gaming is quite grand.
While I rely on online gaming sites (roll20 & the like), my impression is that the majority of gamers I know do NOT want to play online (they value the social aspect more than the gaming aspect). It's something important to remember.
*Sigh* All these people just refusing to buy a new edition that hasn't even been announced yet.
You claim that you wouldn't buy the next edition.... However, if you decide that the next edition is better and that you would have more fun playing it you probably will start buying it.
I just got my books...
No I wouldn't buy a new edition. I'd probably go back to 3.5 with PF 1.0 splashes or PF 1.0 with 3.5 splashes.
How can you be so sure you won't have more fun with the as of now unlimited possibilities of improvement a PF 2.0 could bring?
How can you be so sure that PF 2.0 won't be compatible with content from PF 1.0 material?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Hey Mr. Love, you know that you can keep playing with your books, right? The same way people still play with heir 4e, 3.5, 3rd (some people do! especially here where 3.5 books actually weren't relased translated), 2nd, AD&D, OD&D, Basic, etc books. despite those editions no longer being supported.
The PF2 strikeforce won't come to your house and burn down your secret stash of illegal roleplaying books. Your purchaces will not be invalidated.
Also, unless you have evey single book, every single AP, and have even got all the third party books you want... why do you even care? You'll have content to purchase long, loooong after the last PF CRB rolls off the prints if that's what you want.
And through awesome online gaming sites you can always find a game.
Today's Age of Gaming is quite grand.
While I rely on online gaming sites (roll20 & the like), my impression is that the majority of gamers I know do NOT want to play online (they value the social aspect more than the gaming aspect). It's something important to remember.
As I grow older and the hobby becomes more sparse, I find sites like Roll20 to be absolutely crucial.
A game is better than no game heh.
Personal Note: It allows me to play with my dear brother who moved away. It can keep gaming groups together despite difficulties.
*Sigh* All these people just refusing to buy a new edition that hasn't even been announced yet.
You claim that you wouldn't buy the next edition.... However, if you decide that the next edition is better and that you would have more fun playing it you probably will start buying it.
I just got my books...
No I wouldn't buy a new edition. I'd probably go back to 3.5 with PF 1.0 splashes or PF 1.0 with 3.5 splashes.
How can you be so sure you won't have more fun with the as of now unlimited possibilities of improvement a PF 2.0 could bring?
How can you be so sure that PF 2.0 won't be compatible with content from PF 1.0 material?
What is so wrong with the game we have now that yoy want to destroy it right away for something new?
What makes you think that PF 2.0 is going to fix everything I or any other person dislikes about the game without destroying what I or any other person likes?
No, the new edition isn't announced yet but those of us who do not WANT a new edition need to make our voices heard because the chatter on these message boards makes it out that the game is absolutely awful and that they could not get a new edition out soon enough-- which could not be further from the truth.
If a new edition came out in the next few years, tbph-- I wouldn't even crack open the cover in a store or look at the PRD for several years at least.
Then the first change I don't like that I saw, I'd put it down and not look at it again for another few years. . .
Most like I would skip the edition entirely. So the second they announce PF 2.0, you can count me out of buying ANYTHING published by Paizo for at least 25 or so years. . . maybe I will come back in 2050 for PF 4.0, but I'm not giving a company that keeps riding the edition rollercoaster my support.
So far I believe paizo when they say they don't plan to do that, but I get tired of hearing the clamoring to be taken advantage of and people who actually WANT this company to treat them like disposable cash machines instead of valued customers.
That stuff makes it hard for me to sleep at night. "I could be having more fun."Unless of course you think Pathfinder is perfect as is eh?Either that or he doesn't care if it's imperfect.
While I realize that you're probably being facetious, "Could I be having more fun?" kind of is my thought process when it comes to buying new editions. Does it improve on something I already have? Or, does it do something new and interesting? If so, I might just buy it!
I have much less attachment to particular rulesets than the average PF fan seems to.
That stuff makes it hard for me to sleep at night. "I could be having more fun."Unless of course you think Pathfinder is perfect as is eh?Either that or he doesn't care if it's imperfect.While I realize that you're probably being facetious, "Could I be having more fun?" kind of is my thought process when it comes to buying new editions. Does it improve on something I already have? Or, does it do something new and interesting? If so, I might just buy it!
I have much less attachment to particular rulesets than the average PF fan seems to.
I tend to follow similar ideals. Though I am attached to the system, as it is the one (of the 4 I have tried yet) that I've enjoyed most.
I would like to try a 4e game though. Some of it's notions interest me a lot. However the feedback I've gotten from local players is that the system has been garnering less interest lately (in a club of about 100 members, they've not had a 4e game in nearly a year, but plenty of 3.5, pathfinder & others too numerous to mention, including like 4 call of cthulu tables).
I'll never get to try 4e will I...
What is so wrong with the game we have now that yoy want to destroy it right away for something new?
What makes you think that PF 2.0 is going to fix everything I or any other person dislikes about the game without destroying what I or any other person likes?
The core rulebook is littered with problems that I have to houserule in order to prevent them from driving me crazy. Beyond that, some issues are so inherent to the 3.5 basis of the system that it would be impossible to fix them without a new edition. So yes, considering the fun I have with pathfinder already... I get kind of excited about how much more fun it would be if it wasn't littered with issues.
You're right, it isn't guaranteed that a new edition would fix everything or that it will be the fixes that I want, but that is a gamble that I would be perfectly willing to take.
|
That stuff makes it hard for me to sleep at night. "I could be having more fun."Unless of course you think Pathfinder is perfect as is eh?Either that or he doesn't care if it's imperfect.While I realize that you're probably being facetious, "Could I be having more fun?" kind of is my thought process when it comes to buying new editions. Does it improve on something I already have? Or, does it do something new and interesting? If so, I might just buy it!
I have much less attachment to particular rulesets than the average PF fan seems to.
I tend to follow similar ideals. Though I am attached to the system, as it is the one (of the 4 I have tried yet) that I've enjoyed most.
I would like to try a 4e game though. Some of it's notions interest me a lot. However the feedback I've gotten from local players is that the system has been garnering less interest lately (in a club of about 100 members, they've not had a 4e game in nearly a year, but plenty of 3.5, pathfinder & others too numerous to mention, including like 4 call of cthulu tables).
I'll never get to try 4e will I...
Go online homie.
That stuff makes it hard for me to sleep at night. "I could be having more fun."Unless of course you think Pathfinder is perfect as is eh?Either that or he doesn't care if it's imperfect.While I realize that you're probably being facetious, "Could I be having more fun?" kind of is my thought process when it comes to buying new editions. Does it improve on something I already have? Or, does it do something new and interesting? If so, I might just buy it!
I have much less attachment to particular rulesets than the average PF fan seems to.
Uh. I literally budget all my free time on what I could be having the most fun with.
What makes you think that PF 2.0 is going to fix everything I or any other person dislikes about the game without destroying what I or any other person likes?
Why do you think it will? You're quite the pessimist. Have some hope mate.
So far I believe paizo when they say they don't plan to do that, but I get tired of hearing the clamoring to be taken advantage of and people who actually WANT this company to treat them like disposable cash machines instead of valued customers.
As long as the PRD exists, I'd kindly like you to not imagine this is about money or anything.
You're worried that if the edition changes it will invalidate all your previous material. What if it's compatible with PF 1.0? Then unless you find out that PF 2.0's core rules were better you could avoid paying for the core stuff all together.
Go online homie.That stuff makes it hard for me to sleep at night. "I could be having more fun."Unless of course you think Pathfinder is perfect as is eh?Either that or he doesn't care if it's imperfect.While I realize that you're probably being facetious, "Could I be having more fun?" kind of is my thought process when it comes to buying new editions. Does it improve on something I already have? Or, does it do something new and interesting? If so, I might just buy it!
I have much less attachment to particular rulesets than the average PF fan seems to.
I tend to follow similar ideals. Though I am attached to the system, as it is the one (of the 4 I have tried yet) that I've enjoyed most.
I would like to try a 4e game though. Some of it's notions interest me a lot. However the feedback I've gotten from local players is that the system has been garnering less interest lately (in a club of about 100 members, they've not had a 4e game in nearly a year, but plenty of 3.5, pathfinder & others too numerous to mention, including like 4 call of cthulu tables).
I'll never get to try 4e will I...
I get plenty of online man. Sometimes you feel like something different... Well, at least I have my warhammer fantasy roleplay game in RL. The feel between RL & online is very different. I've been trying PbP though, and it is fun, if VERY slow.
|
|
I get plenty of online man. Sometimes you feel like something different... Well, at least I have my warhammer fantasy roleplay game in RL. The feel between RL & online is very different. I've been trying PbP though, and it is fun, if VERY slow.Go online homie.That stuff makes it hard for me to sleep at night. "I could be having more fun."Unless of course you think Pathfinder is perfect as is eh?Either that or he doesn't care if it's imperfect.While I realize that you're probably being facetious, "Could I be having more fun?" kind of is my thought process when it comes to buying new editions. Does it improve on something I already have? Or, does it do something new and interesting? If so, I might just buy it!
I have much less attachment to particular rulesets than the average PF fan seems to.
I tend to follow similar ideals. Though I am attached to the system, as it is the one (of the 4 I have tried yet) that I've enjoyed most.
I would like to try a 4e game though. Some of it's notions interest me a lot. However the feedback I've gotten from local players is that the system has been garnering less interest lately (in a club of about 100 members, they've not had a 4e game in nearly a year, but plenty of 3.5, pathfinder & others too numerous to mention, including like 4 call of cthulu tables).
I'll never get to try 4e will I...
I feel you. Just sayin if its hard locally to find a table you can always itch that scratch online.
As long as the PRD exists, I'd kindly like you to not imagine this is about money or anything.You're worried that if the edition changes it will invalidate all your previous material. What if it's compatible with PF 1.0? Then unless you find out that PF 2.0's core rules were better you could avoid paying for the core stuff all together.
I played through D&D 3.0 in 2000, 3.5 in 2003 and 4th ed in 2007-- I don't want to do that again.
I know just how "compatible" previous edition material is with the new editions because I've seen how 3.0 material worked with 3.5 (and 3.5 with PF-- a quick glance at these boards and you will see that many people do not consider PF to be backwards compatible with 3.5)
So no, I do not have hope that PF 2.0 will play well with PF.
And I don't want PF 2.0 in 2015 followed up by PF 2.5 in 2018 and PF 3.0 in 2022-- I don't want to start over every 3-5 years. I want a stable set of rules expanded on with options, not a revolving door of edition upon edition to "fix" the game.
...
I feel you. Just sayin if its hard locally to find a table you can always itch that scratch online.
Oh, and I am, very much so. Which is the main reason I want to find something different.
Though I am trying GM-ing online for the first time tomorrow. Hopefully it will go well.
*Sigh* All these people just refusing to buy a new edition that hasn't even been announced yet.
You claim that you wouldn't buy the next edition.... However, if you decide that the next edition is better and that you would have more fun playing it you probably will start buying it.
I just got my books...
No I wouldn't buy a new edition. I'd probably go back to 3.5 with PF 1.0 splashes or PF 1.0 with 3.5 splashes.
How can you be so sure you won't have more fun with the as of now unlimited possibilities of improvement a PF 2.0 could bring?
How can you be so sure that PF 2.0 won't be compatible with content from PF 1.0 material?
It doesn't matter. I require fun return on my investment.
If 2.0 is somehow God's gift to gaming, then I may play it. That doesn't mean I would buy any of the material.
It doesn't matter. I require fun return on my investment.
If 2.0 is somehow God's gift to gaming, then I may play it. That doesn't mean I would buy any of the material.
That is a fine way to go.
Personally I try the game first and gauge about how much money I should put into it based on the fun I had. Then see how putting money into it enhanced the experience and go from there.
The interesting bit I find is how many folks can say they've gotten their moneys worth of fun already? If so is it that painful to continue your support into another edition if said edition is still solid?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
What is so wrong with the game we have now that yoy want to destroy it right away for something new?
What makes you think that PF 2.0 is going to fix everything I or any other person dislikes about the game without destroying what I or any other person likes?
No, the new edition isn't announced yet but those of us who do not WANT a new edition need to make our voices heard because the chatter on these message boards makes it out that the game is absolutely awful and that they could not get a new edition out soon enough-- which could not be further from the truth.
If a new edition came out in the next few years, tbph-- I wouldn't even crack open the cover in a store or look at the PRD for several years at least.
Then the first change I don't like that I saw, I'd put it down and not look at it again for another few years. . .
Most like I would skip the edition entirely. So the second they announce PF 2.0, you can count me out of buying ANYTHING published by Paizo for at least 25 or so years. . . maybe I will come back in 2050 for PF 4.0, but I'm not giving a company that keeps riding the edition rollercoaster my support.
So far I believe paizo when they say they don't plan to do that, but I get tired of hearing the clamoring to be taken advantage of and people who actually WANT this company to treat them like disposable cash machines instead of valued customers.
I dont think there's anything wrong with arguing for no new edition if that's what you want (what else are you supposed to argue for). Those who do want a new edition should keep clamouring for it and poor Paizo have to work out what's the best course of action.
Having said that, I'm curious why you dont have a problem supporting Paizo now (who updated 3.5 and essentially "rode the edition rollercoaster") but wouldnt if they switched to supporting PF 2.0? Is it just that one edition update per company is okay but a second is a bridge too far? (ie Wotc releasing 3.0 and then 3.5 was acceptable but 4th edition was too much. Paizo updating 3.5 to Pathfinder was reasonable but PF2 is less so).
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It doesn't matter. I require fun return on my investment.
If 2.0 is somehow God's gift to gaming, then I may play it. That doesn't mean I would buy any of the material.
That is a fine way to go.
Personally I try the game first and gauge about how much money I should put into it based on the fun I had. Then see how putting money into it enhanced the experience and go from there.
The interesting bit I find is how many folks can say they've gotten their moneys worth of fun already? If so is it that painful to continue your support into another edition if said edition is still solid?
Speaking from experience yes yes it is.
Maybe I'll like it better, most likely I won't.
Maybe I will like Amazing Spiderman better than Toby Mcguire Spiderman-- but I still don't want to watch the origin story again. . .
Maybe I'll like the new 52 better than the old DCU, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to be frustrated by having beloved characters changed, discarded, or retconned into never having existed at all.
You liked Breaking Bad? How would you like them to start it over with a new cast, new writers, but "fixing" all the problems that there were in it? You going to be in on watching "New Breaking Bad?"
I get plenty of online man. Sometimes you feel like something different... Well, at least I have my warhammer fantasy roleplay game in RL. The feel between RL & online is very different. I've been trying PbP though, and it is fun, if VERY slow.Go online homie.That stuff makes it hard for me to sleep at night. "I could be having more fun."Unless of course you think Pathfinder is perfect as is eh?Either that or he doesn't care if it's imperfect.While I realize that you're probably being facetious, "Could I be having more fun?" kind of is my thought process when it comes to buying new editions. Does it improve on something I already have? Or, does it do something new and interesting? If so, I might just buy it!
I have much less attachment to particular rulesets than the average PF fan seems to.
I tend to follow similar ideals. Though I am attached to the system, as it is the one (of the 4 I have tried yet) that I've enjoyed most.
I would like to try a 4e game though. Some of it's notions interest me a lot. However the feedback I've gotten from local players is that the system has been garnering less interest lately (in a club of about 100 members, they've not had a 4e game in nearly a year, but plenty of 3.5, pathfinder & others too numerous to mention, including like 4 call of cthulu tables).
I'll never get to try 4e will I...
I feel for ya, friend! I've tried pbp and email gaming, and it's just impossible to maintain my focus. Two weeks in, and I've completely lost interest. Every time.
If you're ever in NYC, look me up! I'll show you what a blast 4e is. :)
|
|
You liked Breaking Bad? How would you like them to start it over with a new cast, new writers, but "fixing" all the problems that there were in it? You going to be in on watching "New Breaking Bad?"
You mean something like this?
It doesn't matter. I require fun return on my investment.
If 2.0 is somehow God's gift to gaming, then I may play it. That doesn't mean I would buy any of the material.
That is a fine way to go.
Personally I try the game first and gauge about how much money I should put into it based on the fun I had. Then see how putting money into it enhanced the experience and go from there.
The interesting bit I find is how many folks can say they've gotten their moneys worth of fun already? If so is it that painful to continue your support into another edition if said edition is still solid?
Speaking from experience yes yes it is.
Maybe I'll like it better, most likely I won't.
Then you haven't gotten your money's worth of fun yet? Ouch.
The Breaking Bad analogy would be more like saying "The cast and writers should never make another show, just more Breaking Bad seasons, because their next show probably won't be as good and I'm not buying all those Blu-rays".
The Breaking Bad analogy would be more like saying "The cast and writers should never make another show, just more Breaking Bad seasons, because their next show probably won't be as good and I'm not buying all those Blu-rays".
That's not true at all because PF 2.0 wouldn't be a completely new thing, it would be a remake. . .