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Sorcerers are often suggested as "face" guys, but they already need to buy Spellcraft, Perception and maybe a Bloodline skill, as well as some basic K-Arcana if they want to have a clue about what they're doing.
You'd expect a real cleric to be good at Diplomacy (sermons), Sense Motive (spiritual needs of parishioners), K-Religion, some other knowledges related to his specific faith, Profession(Priest), Spellcraft, Heal and a few other things.
If these people are even baseline competent at their supposed skills, they have nothing left to add a personal touch. At 4+, it's no luxury but they get by. That puts them on the same level as barbarians, druids and oracles. I don't really see any reason why clerics and sorcerers should be less-skilled. It's just a 3.x artifact.
Witches/wizards aren't being gimped. They're considered powerful classes and they're not getting anything extra. They're already Int-SAD. They tend to end up with +3 to +5 extra skill points from Intelligence at level 1 already. They don't need it.
Sorc and ESPECIALLY cleric aren't supposed to be skilled classes. Having to make painful choices is the entire POINT. Really, wizards aren't either, it just ends up being that way due to Int.
Even then, if it weren't for PF's changes to class skills, wizard wouldn't be considered a "skill monkey." Perhaps a "pokedex," but not a skill monkey. Because prior to PF, investing cross-class was brutally painful.
And you don't have to max ranks in every skill. A lot of skill DCs peter out eventually so you *can* broaden out a bit.
I would never just give everyone 4+. It further cheapens the supposed benefit of "skilled" classes like rogue, and since the skills are so uneven in power (perception is king of the hill, UMD is up there, etc...), giving a slightly higher minimum is a straight up power-up to those classes, they can just take all the win skills. While as buffing rogue to say...12+int wouldn't power them up much at all, since all the good skills are taken after the first half dozen skill points anyway. It'd just broaden them very, very slightly.
Witches/wizards aren't being gimped. They're considered powerful classes and they're not getting anything extra. ...They don't need it.
Yeah. Clerics and Sorcerers are powerful already, too. Screw them.
How about this one?
Resistance Training (Ex): Starting at 9th level, a fighter gains Spell Resistance equal to his CMD.
What if UMD were two skills?
Use Wands/Read Scrolls
and
Use Magic Device
What if Perception were, oh,
Spot
and
Listen
I've been playing 3e to pathfinder using nothing but human fighter for I believe over fifteen years. I find it to be one of the worst classes (if not the worst) but I love it too much to let go. I wish you all the best of luck, especially when my fighter and monk dreams were crushed with the brawler.
I just keep trying to come up skill-based mechanics that revolve around combat to help give the Fighter new and improved abilities, and I will continue to do so.
Wall of Blades (Ex): At 5th level, a fighter may deflect a single melee or ranged attack that targets him or another creature within his reach as an immediate action. To do so he makes an attack roll opposed by the attack roll of the attacker. If the fighter's attack roll is higher, the incoming attack misses. If the fighter's attack roll is lower, then the incoming attack gains a +2 bonus to its attack roll.
The fighter cannot use this ability if he is flat-footed.
Spell Parry (Ex): At 13th level, a fighter may attempt to diffuse the energies of a single magical effect with well-honed martial skill as an immediate action. When he or a creature within his reach would make a saving throw against a spell, spell-like ability, or supernatural effect the fighter may make an attack roll in place of that creature's saving throw. If the fighter's attack roll meets or exceeds the effect's DC, then he, or the creature he is protecting, is treated as though he made his save against the effect. If the fighter's attack roll does not meet the effect's DC, then the effect's DC increases by 2 for this particular use.
The fighter cannot use this ability if he is flat-footed.
Penetrating Strike (Ex): At 7th level, a fighter may make a combat maneuver check as a move action. If his check succeeds, then he overcomes 5 points of his opponent's DR until the end of his next turn. For every 5 points by which he beats his opponent's CMD, he overcomes 5 additional points of his opponent's DR.
Greater Penetrating Strike (Ex): At 15th level, whenever the fighter uses his Penetrating Strike ability, he spends only a swift action rather than a move action, and if he beats his opponents CMD, then he overcomes all of that opponent's DR. For every 5 points by which he beats his opponent's CMD he deals 1d6 additional damage with his attacks until the end of his next turn.
Penetrating Strike (Ex): At 7th level, a fighter may make a combat maneuver check as a move action. If his check succeeds, then he overcomes 5 points of his opponent's DR until the end of his next turn. For every 5 points by which he beats his opponent's CMD, he overcomes 5 additional points of his opponent's DR.
Greater Penetrating Strike (Ex): At 15th level, whenever the fighter uses his Penetrating Strike ability, he spends only a swift action rather than a move action, and if he beats his opponents CMD, then he overcomes all of that opponent's DR. For every 5 points by which he beats his opponent's CMD he deals 1d6 additional damage with his attacks until the end of his next turn.
These aren't bad idea, but having to beat CMD is damn difficult as is. If you check my fighter rework in the thread I just gave them the ability to ignore DR equal to their level starting at level 10.
Well, I want the fighter's abilities to be based on skill, so using a combat maneuver just seemed to fit mechanically. Though I realize he has only a minor bonus to CMB (that is if you're going with my suggested Tactical Awareness ability at 2nd level) to this and no other way to boost it the way that a fighter could ordinarily boost Bull Rush or Trip. Hmm...
By skill I meant fighting skill, not skill ranks skill. Skill ranks skill is *supposed* to be the Rogue's job, or so anyone would have thought, but your idea would definitely be a good one if you decided to go to route of simply merging both the Fighter and Rogue into a single class (not a bad idea at all).
What would we even call such a class? The Knave seems thematically off, the Expert sounds really lame... The Professional... just as bad.
Exorcism of Steel (Ex): Starting at 11th level, when a fighter uses his Skilled Maneuverability class feature to successfully move through a threatened area he may spend a swift action and treat his attack roll as an actual attack against every creature whose threatened areas he moved through during his move. Any creature whose AC that attack roll would hit is dealt damage as if the fighter had hit them with a melee attack.
Alignment: Any.
HD: 1d10.
Class Skills
The fighter's class skills are Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (engineering) (Int), Knowledge (history) (Int), Knowledge (local) (Int), Perception (Wis), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), and Swim (Str).
Skill Ranks Per Level: 4 + Int modifier.
Bonus Feats
At 1st level, and at every even level thereafter, a fighter gains a bonus feat in addition to those gained from normal advancement (meaning that the fighter gains a feat at every level). These bonus feats must be selected from those listed as Combat Feats, sometimes also called “fighter bonus feats.”
Upon reaching 4th level, and every four levels thereafter (8th, 12th, and so on), a fighter can choose to learn a new bonus feat in place of a bonus feat he has already learned. He may do this once per day after an hour of practice. In effect, the fighter loses the bonus feat in exchange for the new one. The old feat cannot be one that was used as a prerequisite for another feat, prestige class, or other ability. A fighter can only change one feat at any given level and must choose whether or not to swap the feat at the time he gains a new bonus feat for the level.
Weapon Training (Ex): At 1st level, a fighter selects one group of weapons, as noted below. Whenever he attacks with a weapon from this group, he gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls.
Every four levels thereafter (5th, 9th, 13th, and 17th), a fighter becomes further trained in another group of weapons. He gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls when using a weapon from this group. In addition, the bonuses granted by previous weapon groups increase by +1 each. For example, when a fighter reaches 9th level, he receives a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls with one weapon group and a +2 bonus on attack and damage rolls with the weapon group selected at 5th level. Bonuses granted from overlapping groups do not stack. Take the highest bonus granted for a weapon if it resides in two or more groups.
A fighter also adds this bonus to any combat maneuver checks made with weapons from this group. This bonus also applies to the fighter's Combat Maneuver Defense when defending against disarm and sunder attempts made against weapons from this group. If he has any weapon-specific abilities or feats that apply to a weapon from a group the fighter has chosen, those abilities or feats apply to all weapons from the chosen weapon group (or groups).
Canny Blow (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, whenever a fighter hits an opponent with an attack of opportunity, his attack deals extra damage. This extra damage is 1d6 at 2nd level and increases by 1d6 every two fighter levels thereafter. Should the fighter score a critical hit with an attack of opportunity, this extra damage is not multiplied. This extra damage cannot apply to creatures with concealment against the fighter.
Tactical Awareness (Ex): At 2nd level the Fighter gains a +1 morale bonus to all combat maneuver checks and to his combat maneuver defense, to all Initiative checks, all Perception checks, and to Will saving throws against fear. These bonuses increase by +1 at 6th level and every four levels thereafter.
Armor Training (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, a fighter learns to wear his armor better than most. Whenever he is wearing armor, he reduces the armor check penalty by 1 (to a minimum of 0) and increases both the armor bonus given by his armor and the maximum Dexterity bonus allowed by his armor by 1. Every four levels thereafter (7th, 11th, 15th, and 19th), these bonuses increase by +1 each time, to a maximum –5 reduction of the armor check penalty and a +5 increase of the armor bonus and maximum Dexterity bonus allowed.
In addition, a fighter can also move at his normal speed while wearing medium armor. At 7th level, a fighter can move at his normal speed while wearing heavy armor.
Steely Step (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, a Fighter may use an attack roll to avoid attacks of opportunity for moving through threatened areas in the same way that other characters might use the Acrobatics skill.
Combat Superiority (Ex): Starting at 4th level, a Fighter's skill is sufficient to allow him to ignore all ability score requirements of combat feats he takes. Furthermore, for the purpose of qualifying for combat feats, his base attack bonus is treated as being +1 higher than it is at 4th level, +2 higher at 8th level, +3 higher at 12th level, and so on.
Wall of Blades (Ex): At 5th level, a fighter may deflect a single melee or ranged attack that targets him or another creature within his reach as an immediate action. To do so he makes an attack roll opposed by the attack roll of the attacker. If the fighter's attack roll is higher, the incoming attack misses. If the fighter's attack roll is lower, then the incoming attack gains a +2 bonus to its attack roll.
The fighter cannot use this ability if he is flat-footed.
Penetrating Strike (Ex): At 7th level, a fighter may make a combat maneuver check as a move action. If his check succeeds, then he overcomes 5 points of his opponent's DR until the end of his next turn. For every 5 points by which he beats his opponent's CMD, he overcomes 5 additional points of his opponent's DR. If the fighter has any bonuses to other, specific combat maneuver checks, such as to Bull Rush or Disarm, then he adds the highest among those bonuses to his combat maneuver checks to make a penetrating strike.
Resistance Training (Ex): Starting at 9th level, a fighter gains Spell Resistance equal to his CMD which applies only while he is conscious and only to spells and spell-like abilities the fighter chooses.
Flashing Steel (Ex): Starting at 11th level, when a fighter uses his Steely Step class feature to successfully move through a threatened area he may spend a swift action and treat his attack roll as an actual attack against every creature whose threatened areas he moved through during his move. Any creature whose AC that attack roll would hit is dealt damage as if the fighter had hit them with a melee attack.
Spell Parry (Ex): At 13th level, a fighter may attempt to diffuse the energies of a single magical effect with well-honed martial skill as an immediate action. When he or a creature within his reach would make a saving throw against a spell, spell-like ability, or supernatural effect the fighter may make an attack roll in place of that creature's saving throw. If the fighter's attack roll meets or exceeds the effect's DC, then he, or the creature he is protecting, is treated as though he made his save against the effect. If the fighter's attack roll does not meet the effect's DC, then the effect's DC increases by 2 for this particular use.
The fighter cannot use this ability if he is flat-footed.
Greater Penetrating Strike (Ex): At 15th level, whenever the fighter uses his Penetrating Strike ability, he spends only a swift action rather than a move action, and if he beats his opponents CMD, then he overcomes all of that opponent's DR. For every 5 points by which he beats his opponent's CMD he deals 1d6 additional damage with his attacks until the end of his next turn.
Ruinous Blow (Ex): Starting at 17th level, whenever the fighter confirms a critical hit with an attack of opportunity the struck foe must succeed at a Reflex save (DC 10 + his base attack bonus) or suffer double damage from the fighter's canny blow ability (16d6 rather than 8d6, for example).
Greater Resistance Training (Ex): At 19th level, if a spell or effect would fail to overcome the fighter's spell resistance he becomes immune to that effect for 24 hours. He may apply his spell resistance against supernatural effects if he chooses.
Master at Arms (Ex): At 20th level, a fighter gains DR 5/-- whenever he wears armor and automatically confirms critical hits when attacking with weapons from his chosen weapon groups. He cannot be disarmed and he no longer applies the weight of his armor to his encumbrance.
Not getting anything to help endure will saves before 9th level (by outright rejecting them with SR, which in my personal experience tends to be more of a curse than a blessing to PC's...) is kind of a sticking point, but the improved combat options are shiny.
Yes, I decided to leave off the good Will save, but feel free to nix the bonus vs Fear effects and grant them a good base Will bonus.
One thing I do like about, both the core PF Fighter, and my own revision, is that a) the class features (of both) accommodate fighters of all fighting styles, and b) the class features allow a fighter to branch out with ability scores and actually emphasize bonuses in areas other than fighting. This is because his class features handle the raw bonuses needed to hit and damage creatures (my suggestions even moreso than the core PF Fighter), so that, if the Fighter wants to, he can have a solid Int, Wis, or Cha score, better normally than a Barbarian or Ranger or even Paladin, because his to-hit and damage can both keep up, and now with my suggestions, he gains new in-combat viability that he didn't have before making him more comparable to those classes than ever. Now, upon hitting 20 in one or both scores, he can neglect Str and/or Dex to shore up other ability scores and has class skills to look at as other areas of interest. That freedom is very helpful for character building.
EDIT: I can't edit my previous post, it's too old, but add Diplomacy to the list of that fighter's class skills.
My overall problem with your proposed changes to fighter is that you're taking a class that is already one of the most single-level dipped classes in the game and making them more so. As someone who plays a decent amount of single class fighters, I feel like someone who went to a 4 year college having to compete for jobs with a bunch of people who went to community college.
notes about specific changes below:
The increased skill list is nice, but with traits hardly necessary. I'm not convinced that fighters need 4+ skills, tbh. I can get by just fine with 2-3 (I play humans a lot, and will splash int to 12-13 to get more skills and necessary, in addition to qualifying for feats).
Weapon training: see my general notes above. There's a reason this ability is higher level, and not first.
I like Canny blow, but what about archer fighters? that ability is limited in scope when it comes to helping them.
Tactical awareness is way too potent. It's almost on par with favored enemy in terms of power, but with less downsides (it's always on, and it applies to combat maneuvers instead of just straight up attack rolls.
Steely step is an interesting mechanic. I like it, although it should probably be a CMB check, instead of an attack roll.
Combat superiority is not a bad idea, and I would support it being included in the current build of fighter.
Wall of blades has the potential to grant an enemy +2 to hit an ally every time it's used. I'm not sure if that's the intent, but it could certainly be the case.
penetrating strike is a good idea, but it should probably have a round by round mechanic, as opposed to a move action to last til the end of my next turn mechanic.
resistance training is probably the worst ability you have so far. giving a fighter more SR than creatures of equivalent CR is bad enough, but those creatures have to spend a standard action to drop their SR to get assistance from their allies: with resistance training, you don't even have that! on top that, there's not RP reason that fighters should basically be golems without DR or hardness at 9th level.
Flashing steel is OP as well. using a move and a swift action to deal damage to everyone who takes an AoO against the fighter is not only more potent than anything similar, as written it stacks with spring attack, letting you hit a massive amount of people once, and one poor slob twice. as a full round action.
spell parry doesn't make sense. you make an attack roll in place of a saving throw, then if you fail the attack roll, the DC is 2 higher? but you can't save as well, cause you've already made an attack roll instead of a saving throw.
greater penetrating strike is again very OP as written. now, not only am I spending a swift action to bypass DR, but I get to ignore it completely (one of the better parts of smite, which can only be done by paladins a limited number of times per day and has an alignment rider on it as well), but I get better damage against them as well?
ruinous blow is okay, but if a character wielding a 15-20 crit weapon forces someone to make a reflex save (DC 28 when you get the ability), they get to double all their dice, unlike (say) a rogue?
Greater resistance definitely turns a fighter into a golem. The entire SR mechanic needs to be removed from the class, tbh.
It seems to me that you want to build a fighter that's better than most of the other non-caster classes that currently exist (including the stuff from the ACG). some of your ideas have merit, but we haven't even covered the idea of the party having to face fighters like these.
While I’m nowhere near far enough along in my play-testing to call myself satisfied with any of the fixes I was pondering, I’m more than willing to share some of my thoughts on the “Fighter Fix”.
My intent was to discourage or at least not reward minimal level dipping into fighter with this progression, which is why most of the abilities don’t really “come into their own” until a bit higher level. I also find that the level of the game I and those I game with tend to play is higher than most of what I read on these boards.
The wording definitely needs to be cleaned up a bit, but with only a little further ado …
Skill Points: Fighters gain 4+Int modifier skill points per level.
Expanded Repertoire - for each level of Bravery, a Fighter may also choose a "skill boon" taken from the the list below. These skill becomes a class skill if not already a class skill and also gain a bonus equal to the Fighter’s Bravery Bonus (+1 at 2,6,10,14,18).
At any point a Fighter may select a combat feat, they may instead choose to select Skill Focus in a class skill. Any time a fighter may retrain a bonus combat feat, they may also choose to retrain the Skill Focus feat gained from this ability.
Skills:
Bluff
Climb
Craft (Armor, Weapons, etc.)
Diplomacy
Handle Animal
Intimidate
Knowledge (Dungeoneering, Engineering, History, Local, or Nobility)
Linguistics
Perception
Profession (Soldier, etc)
Ride
Sense Motive
Stealth
Survival
Swim
Bravery:
As Bravery is one of the least useful fighter abilities, I wanted to do something to both make it more useful and have it serve as an effective measure of advancement as well. Here are my thoughts on improving Bravery…
Bravery 1 (2nd Level) –
Unshakable - a Fighter who makes a fear save takes no penalties at all, even if the save would normally result in a lesser fearful state. The fighter adds double their Bravery bonus to their Wis bonus when others attempt to use an Intimidate skill or ability against them.
Bravery 2 (6th Level) –
Tenacity – Fighter gains Tenacity Pool. Tenacity Pool is equal to Bravery+Wisdom modifier. Any character with a Grit pool cannot also have a Tenacity Pool (as it is thematically the same mechanic). If the Fighter has a Grit pool or gains a Grit pool, all Tenacity abilities are instead activated using Grit and the Fighter gains an additional point of Grit for each level of Bravery beyond the 1st (ie at 6th, 10th, 14th, & 18th Level).
Fire in the Belly – The Fighter may expend a point of Tenacity to reroll a Will save, but must take the 2nd result, even if worse. This ability must be used before the result of original roll is declared. Fire in the Belly may only be used once per round.
Bravery 3 (10th Level) –
Focused Will – the Fighter can as an immediate action expend one point of Tenacity to apply their Bravery bonus instead as a Will save bonus.
In addition, any time the Fighter successfully saves against or has a fear effect fail against them (such as from an unsuccessful attempt at intimidate) the fighter may either regain a point of Tenacity or apply their Bravery bonus as a morale bonus on all attack, damage, saving throws, and skill checks against the originator of that effect for a number of rounds equal to their base Tenacity Pool rating. Each opponent may only provide the opportunity to regain a point of Tenacity or grant the Fighter the morale bonus against them once per day, no matter how often the Fighter successfully saves against their Fear effect or how often the enemy fails an Intimidate check.
Bravery 4 (14th Level) –
Rousing Courage – as a Swift action, the Fighter may give all allies within 30' with clear line of effect a morale bonus vs. fear equal to 1/2 their Bravery. This is a mind-affecting effect, and may not be used if fighter is paralyzed, stunned, unconscious, or otherwise prevented from participating in the combat. This effect lasts a number of rounds equal to their Bravery+ Charisma Modifier.
The Fighter may also expend a point of Tenacity when activating this ability. If he does so, allies affected by Rousing Courage who successfully save against a fear effect gain a +1 morale bonus on all attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks and caster level checks for 1 round.
Bravery 5 (18th Level) –
Unshakable Will – after expending a point of Tenacity to activate Focused Will, the Fighter takes no penalties from a successful Will save, even if a lesser or alternate effect would normally apply (as Stalwart, but only applying to Will saves).
Armor Training:
Armor training is a great ability, but unless the Fighter is built to be very Dex-focused, is usually relegated to niche usefulness once mithril is readily available. My intent with the expanded Armor Training rules was to take the thematic element of great mobility a touch further. I also wanted to give the Fighters a slight edge over defense with Gunslingers. All of the abilities below are in addition to the normal advantages of Armor Training…
Armor Training-2 (7th) – for purposes of movement rate, attack penalties, and skill check penalties the weight of armor, shields, and weapons wielded no longer apply to the Fighter when calculating light and medium encumbrance, but still count against the maximum possible weight the Fighter may carry.
Armor Training-3 (11th) – the Fighter may move up to 10 feet or half their movement (whichever is less) and still take a full-attack action. By spending a point of Tenacity as an immediate action, the fighter may apply one half of their shield bonus to their touch AC against an attack which deals hit point damage (such as against a firearm attack within its first range increment or acid arrow spell, but not against an enervation spell).
Armor Training-4 (15th) – the Fighter may move up to 15 feet or half their movement (whichever is less) and still take a full-attack action. By spending a point of Tenacity as an immediate action, the fighter may apply one half of their armor & shield bonuses to their touch AC for 1 round against attacks which deals hit point damage (such as against a firearm attack within its first range increment or acid arrow spell, but not against an enervation spell).
Weapon Training:
Weapon Training is arguably the best Fighter ability (excepting possibly all of the Bonus Feats) and really needed very little to make it more powerful, but I thought it could use a bit of a thematic boost. I also feel that Fighters should be the best class to use a variety of weapons, so I think the Exotic Weapon Synergy is thematically appropriate. As with Armor Training, the intent is to add to the base Weapon Training ability…
Exotic Weapon Synergy – Any time the fighter expends a Feat for the Exotic Weapon Proficiency, they gain a number of additional Exotic Weapon Proficiencies equal to their Weapon Training Level. If a Fighter has previously expended a Feat to purchase an Exotic Weapon Proficiency, they may choose an additional Exotic Weapon Proficiency each time their Weapon Training increases. In addition, at each additional Weapon Training level, the Fighter may choose to retrain one Exotic Weapon Proficiency into another.
If the original Exotic Weapon Proficiency Feat was gained from a Bonus Combat Feat, the Fighter may elect to use their Retrain ability to retain that Feat and all Exotic Weapon Proficiencies gained from that feat are retrained at the same time.
Weapon Training-2 (9th) – The Fighter may retrain their Weapon Training Groups each time a new level is gained in a manner similar to combat feat retraining. This ability allows them to “re-stack” their bonuses in the most optimal manner they desire.
Weapon Training-3 (13th) – The Fighter applies their Weapon Training bonus to their CMD against any attacks from weapons in any of their Weapon Training Groups. When taking the Total Defense or Fight Defensively actions, they gain a dodge bonus equal to their Weapon Training against weapon attacks from those Groups.
Weapon Training-4 (17th) – The Fighter applies their Weapon Training bonus to initiative when wielding any Weapon in their Weapon Training Groups. They apply their full Weapon Training bonus to the DC opponents must beat with any bluff checks to Feint or acrobatics checks to move through the Fighter’s square.
Taken all together the above “fixes” might actually be a bit too much, but hopefully they will prove useful in either mechanics or inspiration for folks trying to balance their own games.
-TimD
I am testing this in my group right now:
Combine Tactician Fighter archetype into base Fighter/whatever fighter archetype the player plays.
Allow all weapon specific feats (weapon focus, weapon specialization, improved critical) to affect entire fighter weapon groups.
I'd actually also add Lore Warden to that. 6 skill points, actually some use for INT, being capable at multiple combat maneuvers? Not bad, not bad at all.
This. The only issue with Lore Warden, however, is the free Combat Expertise despite other Feats in chains requiring Int 13. Overall, its an awesome base Fighter. Give them the vanilla Fighter bonuses and that would be awesome.
As in, gain all the Tactician abilities without losing anything? That might not be a bad idea actually.
Combine Tactician Fighter archetype into base Fighter/whatever fighter archetype the player plays.
Yes. Exactly that. Gain the extra scaling initiative, tactician abilities (which include a bonus feat), extra skill points, cooperative combatant, and battle insight.
Also, allowing weapon specific feats like weapon focus, weapon specialization, improved critical to affect a whole weapon group helps too. Also helps reduce whining when the party keeps getting greatsword loot that the falchion fighter cannot use.
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I do like the idea of fighters applying feats like Weapon Focus to a weapon group, but as much as this thread's going to hate me for saying it, I still believe that we can "fix" the fighter just through the addition of new fighter-only feats, without having to errata the CRB. The release of the qinggong and zen archer "fixed" the monk, right?
People seem to really want more skill points, but I like that there's a few classes that only get 2+Int. Plus, the fighter gets enough bonus feats that he can afford to spend one or two of his regular ones on Skill Focus, yes?
I do like the idea of fighters applying feats like Weapon Focus to a weapon group, but as much as this thread's going to hate me for saying it, I still believe that we can "fix" the fighter just through the addition of new fighter-only feats, without having to errata the CRB. The release of the qinggong and zen archer "fixed" the monk, right?
People seem to really want more skill points, but I like that there's a few classes that only get 2+Int. Plus, the fighter gets enough bonus feats that he can afford to spend one or two of his regular ones on Skill Focus, yes?
He doesn't need to, the big thing about the fighter and skill points is that he doesn't have a role out of combat, and doesn't really need those skill points unless someone wants to be insatiable about it.
I like the idea of a length of feats starting with Disruptive that lead into a fighter version of Spell Sunder.
I do like the idea of fighters applying feats like Weapon Focus to a weapon group, but as much as this thread's going to hate me for saying it, I still believe that we can "fix" the fighter just through the addition of new fighter-only feats, without having to errata the CRB. The release of the qinggong and zen archer "fixed" the monk, right?
People seem to really want more skill points, but I like that there's a few classes that only get 2+Int. Plus, the fighter gets enough bonus feats that he can afford to spend one or two of his regular ones on Skill Focus, yes?
Qingqong didn't fix monk so much as bandaid it.
Besides, if we will be custom making feats, then it does not hurt so much to custom make class features? Sometimes the CRB needs to be changed. It is the most broken book in pathfinder anyway.
He doesn't need to, the big thing about the fighter and skill points is that he doesn't have a role out of combat, and doesn't really need those skill points unless someone wants to be insatiable about it.
I like the idea of a length of feats starting with Disruptive that lead into a fighter version of Spell Sunder.
The thing is that a lot of players don't like the fact that the fighter has no role outside of combat. At least with more skill points they can try to do something.
Though as for custom feats, how about:
Might over Magic
prerequisites: Disruptive, Spellbreaker, Fighter level 12
Benefit: Increase the DC adjustment of Disruptive by another +2. Additionally, the Fighter can take a -5 penalty to an attack roll to target an ongoing spell effect against an AC of 15+ the effect's caster level. If the Fighter succeeds at hitting this AC, the effect is dispelled, dealing half the Fighter's normal damage to the creature enhanced by the effect.
I had a house rule for fighters only that changed iterative attacks to a standard action. Fighters (and only fighters) could move and still get full attacks.
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I had a house rule for fighters only that changed iterative attacks to a standard action. Fighters (and only fighters) could move and still get full attacks.
I think the two-weapon warrior archetype already gets something like that-- or maybe just once with each weapon?
I like the idea of a few feats along the lines of Sea Legs, but just for fighters. Instead of having them choose extra class skills, let them take a feat that grants bonuses to a certain collection of skills?
Soldiers' Legacy
Prereq: 6th level Fighter
Benefit: You get a +3 bonus to Diplomacy, Knowledge(history), Knowledge(nobility), and Perception, and may use those skills untrained.
Rough and Ready
Prereq: 4th level Fighter
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus to Climb, Handle Animal, Swim, and Survival, and may use those skills untrained.