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Can a club be made of metal, like iron?
Can a club be made of a metallic Special Material, like Adamantine, Cold Iron, or Mithral?
The Club, noted here, is "usually just a shaped piece of wood, sometimes with a few nails or studs embedded in it", but can it be of other materials?
If you do that (manufacture a metal club) doesn't it become a light or heavy mace ?
A club made of metal is basically a mace. A wooden club with numerous nails or spikes in it is essentially a morningstar. (EDIT: Though, according to Ultimate Equipment, you can have a "few" nails or studs and still have it be treated as a club.)
RAW, you cannot have one made out of metal. It's no longer the same weapon in that case.
I think there are subtle differences in balance and whatnot between a club and a mace. I would have no problem if someone wanted to waste spend money on an improved version of a club.
RAW, you cannot have one made out of metal.
Cite? Bear in mind that the official text above merely says that it's "usually" made of wood, not "always."
You may want to look into the tetsubo, which is essentially a large studded metal club.
RAW, you cannot have one made out of metal.Cite? Bear in mind that the official text above merely says that it's "usually" made of wood, not "always."
I believe there was a table either in Ultimate Equipment or in the Gamemastery Guide which specifically stated what various weapons and armor were classified as for the purposes of what special materials you could make them out of. On that table, I recall club being listed as wood.
Okay.
In this case, I mean the same Club, as the one in Weapon Focus(Club), in the Hammers and Thrown Fighter weapon groups, and deals 1d6 x2, with a 10ft range, wieghs 3 lbs., and deals Bludgeoning damage.
No, because if you made it out of metal, it would weigh much more, or have to be smaller/a different shape (hollow ?) to not weigh more.
If you made it the same shape/balance, then it would weigh more and be a mace.
You may want to look into the tetsubo, which is essentially a large studded metal club.
I've looked into it. The fact that a tetsubo is an oversized metal club doesn't seem to invalidate the idea that one could have a metal club that's not oversized, that would, in fact, be something other than a tetsubo. Like, for example, a club.....
You may want to look into the tetsubo, which is essentially a large studded metal club.I've looked into it. The fact that a tetsubo is an oversized metal club doesn't seem to invalidate the idea that one could have a metal club that's not oversized, that would, in fact, be something other than a tetsubo. Like, for example, a club.....
Or, you know, a mace.
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Okay.
In this case, I mean the same Club, as the one in Weapon Focus(Club), in the Hammers and Thrown Fighter weapon groups, and deals 1d6 x2, with a 10ft range, wieghs 3 lbs., and deals Bludgeoning damage.
No, because if you made it out of metal, it would weigh much more, or have to be smaller/a different shape (hollow ?) to not weigh more.
If you made it the same shape/balance, then it would weigh more and be a mace.
No, maces are balanced differently than clubs.
Maces typically have a large weight on at the "business end," such as the flanges in the picture above. Basically, think about a large unfriendly metal lollipop. A club is typically just the stick without the metal candy at the end.
Or, you know, a mace.
Only if you don't know the difference between a lollipop and a lollipop stick. In which case I'd hate to have you buy candy for me.
Allow me to rephrase my previous statement: RAW, you cannot have a club made out of metal special materials.
On further inspection, technically, there is nothing saying you can't have a metal club, but there is RAW saying that if special materials are used, you are limited to wooden ones or those that specifically say they can be used with clubs.
Only if you don't know the difference between a lollipop and a lollipop stick. In which case I'd hate to have you buy candy for me.
Or, you know, a mace.
Clubs are nearly always heavier on the receiving end. If it's a straight stick, per your lollipop reference, then it is a baton, not a club or mace.
And yet if a club is made from ironwood, which "is as strong, heavy, and resistant to fire as steel," it is still a club. Weight need not be a factor.
I think that this is DM territory, but should be possible. The shape might be a bit different, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it will still deal 1d6 damage and have a x2 critical :P .
And yet if a club is made from ironwood, which "is as strong, heavy, and resistant to fire as steel," it is still a club. Weight need not be a factor.
I think that this is DM territory, but should be possible. The shape might be a bit different, but as they say, if it hits a club and crits like a club, it is a club.
And yet if a club is made from ironwood, which "is as strong, heavy, and resistant to fire as steel," it is still a club. Weight need not be a factor.
I think that this is DM territory, but should be possible. The shape might be a bit different, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it will still deal 1d6 damage and have a x2 critical :P .
Well, yeah, that works because ironwood is considered a WOODEN special material.
It's really all just fluff until one gets to the special materials anyways. What made you bring up the question BBT? Were you hoping for an adamantine club, or just wanted something that was more visually appealing?
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I have seen players rock an Adamantine Great Club, in PFS.
So it looks like you could have some of it be metal, the nails or studs the think is what most say is the Special Materials. as for being just an long Iron Pipe or Bar, I guess but I think that the big part of being a Club is it's not been manufactured, it's made on the fly. that is why the normal one is 0gp
I have seen players rock an Adamantine Great Club, in PFS.
That's an illegal item, though it doesn't surprise me much. When I play PFS I usually see more mistakes and incidental house rules than when I play in home games that use deliberate house rules!
Well, I plan to build a PC, built around using a Club.
I would like to know if an Adamantine, or Cold Iron Club is possible.
RAW, they are not. Though your GM may override that, and I seriously doubt it would cause any balance issues.
Good luck with your concept.
EDIT: Those tables I mentioned earlier are on pages 121-122 of the GMG. They do not appear in the PRD insofar as I can tell.
Well, the Core Rulebook doesn't even have a description of a Club.
By the way, there is no "Baton" weapon in Pathfinder.
Close as I can come up with, is Club.
Just saying.
Very astute of you. Ultimate Equipment on the other hand DOES have a description of a club. It also has a description of a tonfa, which is explicitly described as "baton-like."
In the absence of baton stats, I would use club stats for a baton in Pathfinder.
(If I'm not mistaken, batons and tonfa in real life are generally made of wood or sturdy/heavy plastics/polymers rather than metal. EDIT: Though I'm hardly an expert in the matter.)
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I noticed you mentioned the random loot tables in the Gamemastery Guide.
That really isn't a good place to derive rules for what can, and cannot, be made of Special Materials.
Some, just are not fitting, or not worth it.
Those tables imply that crossbows cannot be made of any special material.
If your Pc happened upon a length of lead pipe, and then decided to wield it as a club, you would be smacking things with a metal club. I would reason that as long as it's not too ridiculously unwieldy any club like improvised weapon could just be treated as a club.
The RAW description is vague for a reason.
Why do you have to be a club-user, and not simply describe your mace as a club ?
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Okay let's try this and look at different reasons why/why not
RAW - the sole justification is on the word 'usually' in usually made of wood. So RAW possibly could make it possible but this seems to be very shaky grounds
RAI - usually wood doesn't mean metal
Special materials - the CRB especially calls out the quarterstaff as a weapon that can't be made out of Cold Iron, Adamantine or Mithril. The description of the quarterstaff is very similar to the club with one single difference - the 'usually' is missing. This further weakens the case
Cost - zero - again - only circumstantial - but cold iron doubles cost - which twice zero still would be zero and doesn't seem the intention. The other melee weapon with cost zero - the quarterstaff ...
Home game - your GM can easily overrule this
PFS - doesn't allow custom items. This certainly is a custom item - so answer is no. Especially for cold iron as this looks like a cheap way to get a free cold iron weapon.
You could argue that RAW it isn't 100% clear - see my own ruling above - unless a developer or Mike Brock is giving an official ruling.
Reality is - a lot of PFS judges might not notice as audits are rare. This doesn't make it right. A new player who doesn't know the rules well might be forgiven but I think I saw enough posts from the OP that he/she doesn't qualify.
Stretching rules to the limit - and worse afterwards complaining because the toys are taken away from you is frowned upon in PFS. As GM I get a random set of players at my table. I want to give them a great experience and not a rules discussion in the 4-5 hour slot they might have paid for.
In summary - if you plan this for a PFS character just don't do it even if you are not convinced by the other arguments
How much does a Cold Iron, Adamantine, or Mithral Q-staff cost?
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I think that this is DM territory, but should be possible. The shape might be a bit different, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it will still deal 1d6 damage and have a x2 critical :P .
Does this mean ducks have a 1d6 damage bite attack? Or that ducks deal 1d6 damage when used as a weapon?
Yes, because we've never had a character fight with an adamantium staff before. I mean, it would be like being able to charge your playing cards with magic and using them as weapons. Except that makes a lot less sense, and yet is actually supported in the rules.
Honestly, considering that in the end a staff is a weapon with certain look and combat stats, it should be quite possible unless your DM just don't want to be bothered.
@ Zhayne - in the special materials section it gives fixed prices for armors and shields, and says that for other items the cost would be 500 gp/pound (on top of the cost of the work).
How much does a Cold Iron, Adamantine, or Mithral Q-staff cost?CRB p154 and 155 explicitly rules them out.
I misread your post. I thought you said they were possible. My bad.
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Does this mean ducks have a 1d6 damage bite attack? Or that ducks deal 1d6 damage when used as a weapon?
I think that this is DM territory, but should be possible. The shape might be a bit different, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it will still deal 1d6 damage and have a x2 critical :P .
So, if she weighs the same as a duck ... then she's made of wood. And therefore ... A WITCH!
Yes, because we've never had a character fight with an adamantium staff before. I mean, it would be like being able to charge your playing cards with magic and using them as weapons. Except that makes a lot less sense, and yet is actually supported in the rules.
Honestly, considering that in the end a staff is a weapon with certain look and combat stats, it should be quite possible unless your DM just don't want to be bothered.
@ Zhayne - in the special materials section it gives fixed prices for armors and shields, and says that for other items the cost would be 500 gp/pound (on top of the cost of the work).
2000gp for a mithral staff? That's nuts ...
It is a special, masterwork weapon that ignores DR/Silver without the penalty of actual alchemical silver. And yes, special material weapons aren't particularly cheap. Then again, at higher levels, 2k GP isn't much.
@ Exiel: actually, if we go by the monk of the empty hand, it depends on the size of the duck. If it is small enough to be considered a light improvised weapon, it will be 1d4, if it is a one-handed sized duck it will be 1d6.
Great, now I have to imagine Jackie Chan dual-wielding stuffed ducks.
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Special Material weapons are not "custom items", in regards to what is available in PFS.
A cold iron dagger - no custom item
A cold iron club - according to most people replying here that this is GM decision and that makes it custom.
I know you decide otherwise. All I can say - don't come complaining at the PFS boards if you play up to higher level and then you run into the wrong GM and it gets officially ruled out. It is a bad, bac idea for PFS to build a character relying on clubs being metal if no such official ruling exists.
And the opinion of other posters here just reinforce how I would rule at my PFS table.
A Mace does not count as a Club, for the purposes of feats and abilities. A Mace does not have a 10ft. range.
So there's some feat that only works with clubs ? Let's hear it.
He's got a point. You can't throw a mace with proficiency.
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A Mace does not count as a Club, for the purposes of feats and abilities. A Mace does not have a 10ft. range.So there's some feat that only works with clubs ? Let's hear it.
Weapon Focus (Club).
*runs away*
So why not take weapon focus (mace) and just CALL it a club for your concept ?
And I believe the "usually" is in the description of club so as to allow bone clubs and such, not metal clubs.
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I read "Metal Club," and thought I'd get to join a society dedicated to the preservation and expansion of the Metal genre in all it's glorious forms. But this is okay too, I guess.
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Special Material weapons are not "custom items", in regards to what is available in PFS.A cold iron dagger - no custom item
A cold iron club - according to most people replying here that this is GM decision and that makes it custom.
I know you decide otherwise. All I can say - don't come complaining at the PFS boards if you play up to higher level and then you run into the wrong GM and it gets officially ruled out. It is a bad, bac idea for PFS to build a character relying on clubs being metal if no such official ruling exists.
And the opinion of other posters here just reinforce how I would rule at my PFS table.
Your previous post suggested Special Material items, of any kind, were somehow a "custom item".