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So I'm making this campaign where Orcs rule the world and the PC's are forced to fight in an arena for entertainment of the orcs. So to survive they have to fight, and afterwards they are thrown back into the dungeons into their cells where most of the social interactions occur.
Thing is, I want my players to feel like they are being challenged with every encounter, but I don't want to set an unbeatable campaign. I just want to make them feel like badasses even though they are trapped in this cruel world. I've never before killed my PC's, so if it happens I want to know how to approach it.
Any help would be much appreciated!
It's a difficult balance. I'm interested in seeing what others indicate.
If you have access to it, check out the old intro adventure for the Dark Sun campaign; Freedom. This module starts with the characters in bondage and struggling to find a way to escape before they die.
Are you having the characters fight solo in the arena? Are they always together as a group?
Spontaneous and divine spellcasters will have an advantage in that they don't need books for memorization every day.
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If you have access to it, check out the old intro adventure for the Dark Sun campaign; Freedom. This module starts with the characters in bondage and struggling to find a way to escape before they die.
Are you having the characters fight solo in the arena? Are they always together as a group?
Spontaneous and divine spellcasters will have an advantage in that they don't need books for memorization every day.
Campaign actually starts "In Media Res" a battle. Waking up on a rising platform, chained by the ancles and hands (PC's have to figure this out) with loud shatters in Orc (which nobody knows unless there is a half-orc) surrounded by 8 friendly NPC's which are to scare to fight and assualted by 12 kobolds. After winning (if they do win) they are recieved by an ovation by the NPC's in the dungeons, and then they are subdue by the guards and humiliated, then thrown back to their cells.
Interesting premise. Performance Combat might actually be used quite a bit given your campaign set-up.
Let’s talk pre-campaign planning, though…
Where do you see the campaign going? ( is this a “slave revolt & overthrow the orcs rule” long-term sort of thing … is this a “my players just want to roll some dice and kill things without annoying moral qualms” sort of thing? Etc.). Are those who vie against each other in the arena able to win their freedom or is it an endless, hopeless battle with the sure knowledge that they will eventually fall?
What levels do you see this game going to? (is this an “all the way to 20!” sort of game or a grittier, more hopeless “you’re lucky if you survive long enough to hit 4th” sort of game?)
Do you know what sorts of characters your players are planning? … prepared arcane casters (ie wizard & magus characters) are likely going to have a much harder time of things than divine casters due to the spellbook restriction.
Do you anticipate this as an active PvP game where PCs will be trying to defeat each other in addition to the normal arena threats? If so, have you spoken with them about this and made sure everyone’s on the same page about PvP conflict? … this can be a really sticky point for some folks out of play.
Killing PCs is sometimes how the dice fall. In a normal campaign, there are options to raise dead / resurrect / etc. It could be relatively easy to do the same for your campaign, depending on the social structure you have set up around your Arena. Perhaps particularly popular gladiators are allowed to be rez’d after a set # of matches, or are given collars that give them (slow) regeneration. This is more of a “how do you want to flavor your campaign?” sort of thing.
-TimD
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This is more of a “how do you want to flavor your campaign?” sort of thing.
-TimD
So Tim. Let me begin by saying you are awesome! You nailed it, those are exactly the issues I'm worrying about.
To be a bit more specific about the campaign scenario.
1.- This is a "slave revolt & overthrow" scenario with an open war at the end that might cause a massive orc extintion. The guards are lvl 8 orc fighters, the traps are almost CR 10, so escaping will be posible at one point, just not in the begining.
2.- I want this campaign to FEEL like a "you're lucky if you survive long enough to hit 4th" scenario, without necesarilly being that way. PC's might die and reroll characters, but what I really want is the experience to feel like a "I walked through the valley of the dead, and survived" kinda thing.
3.- I love me some bookworm casters. I won't take away the thrill the casters have from investigating the world. I won't give them cookies for free, but I might leave one or two crums down the way of spells they might learn or ways they could hide that they are studying magic.
4.- PvP... it's awesome, and I would love to see 2 PC's fight to the death. But by the time they hit that mark I want them to know that they can choose not to fight and play their cards right so that they might survive. Martyrs might result from this, but that might be the start of the revellion.
5.- I would rather keep dead people dead bellow level 9, but I would rather not kill players till level 4. I don't want the game to be punishing. I want the deaths to be ACTUALLY REWARDING, not in the sense that you go "I'm gonna kill my character so I can reroll a new one" but in the sense that the final moments of the character where meaningful, even if after death they find only darkness. I want their deaths to shake the world, and I want rerolled character to be acknoledge about the great heroism of X character.
6.- This one was asked by Democratus. There might be one or two times where the PC's enter the arena alone, among other solo events.
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Make the combats interesting by planning more than just what monsters they will fight. Look to create battlefields that are more than just flat planes, that have features that can be used by creative players, and that have hazards or danger points. Also, have NPC tactics figured out ahead of time as best as you can.
For example, hidden pit traps filled with spikes or acid dot the field, with stone platforms as high as a man's chest and large enough for only a couple of people to stand on top placed in a ring in the center. The baddies are in the ring, with ambushes waiting along the edges of the field under hidden tarps. The PCs win if they can take the center ring.
Or, a series of platforms set up to simulate the taking of a castle, with stairs, battlements, and ambush points dotting the course. There will be high ground, cover, and trap doors that drop victims into spikes below the set up. Enemies have reach weapons and put themselves in choke points.
Keep in mind the abilities of your PCs. If you can offer them cool actions to take through the environment, go for it.
For arcane casters you might bring up the possibility of using something other than a traditional spellbook. Spells need not be written in normal language. In the past I've had players use detailed notches and carvings on a staff or even tattoos which could get around the whole 'how am I hiding all these thick spellbooks' issue.
As for pc deaths, I would hesitate to try and make each death a super-powerful moment of sacrifice.. as long as the encounter you've designed feels balanced just let the dice fall as they may. The players themselves should be the ones who attach great meaning to a death. I went a long time before ever killing a character and when it happens part of me does feel bad for the player. But I know my players enjoy the element of danger and risk that comes from the possibility of dying.
The only other advice I can think of is to make sure your players are on board w. the general idea of the campaign. Having little to no freedom can be really frustrating for some people. That said, I think its a cool campaign idea, good luck!
So Tim. Let me begin by saying you are awesome!This is more of a “how do you want to flavor your campaign?” sort of thing.
-TimD
and humble too! :)
OK, the more I think about this, the more cool it seems like it could be if executed right and with the right player investment.
To be clear though, the type of PvP I was inquiring about was when PCs decide to actively plot against & act against each other without each others’ knowledge or permission. They may realize that they are about to go up against another PCs and try to bribe or threaten another slave or a guard into poisoning or injuring the other PC before hand, for instance. This is something your group should discuss ahead of time so that there’s at least an out of play agreement on how this may be handled. The type of game you are describing is going to cause a lot of temptation for betrayal.
Back to the useful suggestions (though I’m trying to resist writing out a whole campaign arc like I did for that crazy demon lord thread as it’s probably beyond what you’re looking for)...
I can definitely see some really cool encounters involving PCs attempting to manipulate both the other slaves, the guards, and their owners / keepers with some opportunities for the PCs to maybe find bits and pieces of useful information out from their fellow captives (like spells that are tattood on other slaves rather than kept as spellbooks).
This can give you a great in-play reason to have some really wacky situations that most GMs would love to run, but would normally be considered too “artificial” to run in a normal scenario, especially against weird mixes of CR appropriate critters.
The “uprising” will give players a bit more agency in that they know that their goal is to keep their head down until just the right moment and may lead to some really intense RP scenes with other slaves trying to find out if they are going to be betrayed and what makes their fellow prisoners “tick”.
I would definitely try to play-up the differences between the orcs and their various factions – give the PCs something that they can plot, plan and scheme about that will affect them in their long game while they are putting up with having their PCs somewhat ground down in the short game. Knowing Grutharg Shatterhand’s weakness for elf women may help them set him up for being taken out later, especially if they can implicate his rivals in his death.
Will throw some more thoughts this way a bit later… I really like this concept.
-TimD
Here's the secret to making a challenging, but not punishing, campaign: Make easy encounters. A campaign filled with nothing but challenging encounters will exhaust the PCs and players. They won't feel like badarses if everything kicks their butt. Put in some variety! Have some be easier and others harder.
I am intrigued by this idea. I have recently been watching the Spartacus series and I was considering a scenario similar to it.
I like the idea, although I suspect that my players may take a "why are we in a box" attitude about it.
I want them to feel as if they are a part of something--possibly-greater than themselves without them also feeling stifled and confined.
It is a tricky line to tread, but I applaud the idea.
Arcane magic would be a problem as the captors wouldn't want any chance of rebellion from their captives...
They begin their campaign already enslaved? or will the opening sequence facilitate that?
Have considered having the PCs sponsored? Admittedly the last place I saw it was hunger games, but I feel like I have seen it in other instances as well. Garnering the favor of nobles to give them access to better gear which is taken when not in the arena.
Sounds like a cool campaign, I'll be keeping an eye on this thread for ideas.
As for advice all I can offer at the moment is don't get too attached to NPCs. This is good advice in any campaign, but one where the PCs are cornered and desperate- doubly so! Be prepared if PCs kill off an elite guard boss / gladiator / disarm a key trap / even escape before you planned as it very well could happen. Have back ups in place and be ready to roll with unexpected outcomes.
make a character stave in their cell and give them no choice but to eat a humanoid corpse to survive.
I wanna see a situation where cannibalism isn't considered evil - a choice where it's either eat or die.
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I've been cooking up many things. Once I have this campaign a little bit more fleshed out I'll put a Video on Youtube. All your ideas are being considered, but I won't place in the campaign something I cannot manage. Personally I've considered a way to deal with an early uprising. If in the first few encounters the PC's revel and cause an uprising, they will take control of the dungeons, but not necesarilly be able to escape(the outer traps are still around CR 10, so I don't think they will be able to escape). If they do escape, the Campaign is named "World of Orc" not "World of the Arena", which means they can still experience the gruesome world through out the city... more on this later.
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If you haven't read the Dark Sun series, encourage it as you get a feel for the gladiators. If the party survives, they may be granted limited freedoms. In the Dark Sun series, the reigning champions were recruited by rebels to help them strike at the sorcerer king who ruled in tyranny. In the arena, with a specific weapon, on the day of the games, they would have a chance to strike a major blow in concert with the rebellion. There's quite a bit more to the story, but gladiator themed campaigns can have much going on.
Certain characters can throw a gladiator campaign into whack as already noted and Pathfinder characters tend to have many combat abilities. Also account for how your wizards as slaves are going to get spells as they go up in levels or why the captors would ever, in their craziest dreams, let a foreign priest or sorcerer gain in power.
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Lots, LOTS of progress in this piece. Won't show it yet, want to finish the papercraft coliseum (yup, papercraft coliseum) and make a video about this campaign. Still here is an important question I would like to ask to you all (it has less to to with challenge, and more with history):
WHAT IS THE ECONOMIC ACTIVITY (or activities) OF THE ORC EMPIRE?
Besides having a cool setting, I want to answer this fundamental question for endquest reasons.
Any help would be much Appreciated!
You had indicated that the PCs are destined to be gladiatorial slaves for orcs who seemingly rule the world entire.
Not quite sure where you’re going with the inquiry about their economics. If they rule the world, all the economy is theirs. If you’re looking for a cool backstory about how orcs might have been able to rise to prominence and actually form and maintain a somewhat cohesive empire – well, that’s an excellent question and challenge...
Were I to tackle it, I would probably draw on some of Gordon R. Dickson’s most excellent Dorsai SF materials involving the hyper-specialization of the human race and apply it to orcs. Effectively having Orc Warlords establishing a niche in protecting the mercantile races / cultures throughout the world to the degree that no other effective military could compete with them and then effectively taking over the world by dominance and other influences into their abilities to monitor / influence / predict market forces to their own advantage as they have the monopoly (or close enough to it) on security. Tome of Horrors Complete has some orc subtypes that are very cool and I could see adding additional “castes” of orcs based on specialization and ability to reflect the changes amongst the orcs over time. If the desire is to keep the basic “orc” flavor / theme, you could also have the orcs that the PCs most often interact with considered the “base line” orcs that are protected / supported by the hyper-specialized ones in order to maintain genetic / social diversity that they believe to be necessary for the survival of their species. PC endgame for the overthrow of the Orc Empire would then be to reverse engineer how the orc society is set up and set them upon each other after removing the influences of those who seek to keep the correct balance and watch the orcs fall back into their normal barbarism or turn against the hyper-specialized orcs.
Hope that helps.
-TimD