Goblin Squad Member
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Yeah it's vulgar, like PG-13 can not say "Goblin Balls", but it can say Sh#t, A$$h@le, etc.
I have no intrinsic issues with vulgarity. Though that is because people can choose whether or not to be vulgar. As soon you choose the vulgar term as the official defining name, you are taking that choice away from them.
A number of folks have been against the term in use since it was proposed, and it was pretty definitively stated that it would not be the official name. Instead of respecting the decision like mature adults, a group of folks thought they'd get their giggles by trying to force the unwanted term into popular vernacular.
Instead of getting all childishly masculine and showing we have a pair, how about we pull our pants up and act like respectful adults?
hmm i prefer something like "Tome of Knowledge"
but Goblin Book or Goblin Ball or a troll and fun name is good as well.
Spoilered So Nihimon Isn't Jealous Of How Mature We Are...If that's your definition of "jealous", no wonder you're having such a difficult time with the definition of "vulgar" :)
Spoken like a true jealous-jealousy-jealous-jealousypants.
All this being said, I think that insulting the people who like the name (such as myself) is much more immature than the name itself.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yeah, I don't think the folks who use the term are bad people at all... I've used it myself quite a bit and even started a thread to document how it came to be.
I just think it would be better if there were a better term that didn't prompt so many juvenile jokes, even if some of those jokes are funny...
Goblin book
what is wrong with this piture
Guys, clearly the problem is that Goblin Balls simply was not outrageous enough to successfully blackmail Goblinworks. I therefore propose this new name:
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Goblin Squad Member
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They could just call it "Play Time" and so link it with the ability to log the toon in.
Just a little nudge for my preference ;)
That us not the funding model they are using. It appears that it will be F2P a character, but not Free-to-Train one. Otherwise GW will be taking a step towards P2W with inky ibe character per account that us playable.
I applied my kobold ninja skills to repair the link. Now you don't see the video...now you do!
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Goblin Squad Member
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That us not the funding model they are using. It appears that it will be F2P a character, but not Free-to-Train one. Otherwise GW will be taking a step towards P2W with inky ibe character per account that us playable.They could just call it "Play Time" and so link it with the ability to log the toon in.
Just a little nudge for my preference ;)
The same as any of us here, you have "zero" handle on the funding model that they are going to someday, maybe use.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Spoilered So Nihimon Isn't Jealous Of How Mature We Are...If that's your definition of "jealous", no wonder you're having such a difficult time with the definition of "vulgar" :)
Spoken like a true jealous-jealousy-jealous-jealousypants.
All this being said, I think that insulting the people who like the name (such as myself) is much more immature than the name itself.
Maybe I don't understand something, but when people said that the "goblin balls" term was vulgar, did you take that as a personal insult? edit: perhaps I missed some other exchange.
No, I saw this as an insult.
For your information, kobolds don't even wear pants.
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It is (though you totally ripped off my Indulgences). This is a brainstorming session. Hopefully, once the matter of the old name is resolved, people can start agreeing on a new name. So far a lot of the ideas seem pretty good.
yep BrotherZael maybe a barbarian using a tome of knowledge doesnt make sence.
what about Goblin Book or Goblin Tome?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Why is Pharasmic Essence or some variation of that not a viable option D:
I doubt that most anything is out of the question. You just have to get GW to like it. Unless they offer it for an actual vote, that is.
We just all VERY rarely agree on much of anything (that is not very clearly defined) here. It makes this sub forum fun. :)
Just one teensy problem I subtly brought up earlier:
Goblins can't read.
Goblins can't write.
How about Goblin Songs? The goblins sing of your cruel goblin-killing deeds, and this sufficiently impresses the trainers to give you their assistance. ;D
bah you guys type alot interesting names.most of them are fine.
just Goblin in the name makes the item name more funny and familiar.
Taking my idea a step further, Goblin Bards: We get to keep all but two letters the same as Goblin Balls, and it gives us an excuse to carry bound and gagged goblins around to perform when need be. Plus, it makes a great distraction for predators!
did you play the bard's tale kobold cleaver?
goblin songs and goblin bards reminds me that :D
No, I played Burnt Offerings. ;)
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Goblin Squad Member
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It appears that it will be F2P a character, but not Free-to-Train one.
I don't think that's accurate, at least it implies more than I think is true.
You might be able to log on a Character that isn't being trained if it's on an Account that otherwise has lots of Training or is currently Training. However, it's unlikely that you'll be able to login a Low XP Character that is the only Character on that Account if it's past its free-trial period.
Characters earning XP will be able to log in. When characters not earning XP will be able to log in is uncertain at this time (at least to me; Ryan probably has a plan ;) ).
I'm less concerned about the account that has lots of characters and a steady payment history being able to access any low skill characters as I am with the account with one character with a small number of XP being able to play forever "for free". We will have to experiment with criteria for when a given account can no longer be used "for free".
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'd be curious to see what happens if after 2 years, what happens to an account that has gone through its pre paid time from add ons.
Shutting the door on logging in is also shutting the door on the incentive to purchase items in the MTX.
My statement above did not hinge on whether or not we were discussing alts or a main account character either.
The comment I was responded to gave me the impression Bringslite was thinking of alts, and that they should require active training.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'd be curious to see what happens if after 2 years, what happens to an account that has gone through its pre paid time from add ons.
Shutting the door on logging in is also shutting the door on the incentive to purchase items in the MTX.
My statement above did not hinge on whether or not we were discussing alts or a main account character either.
The comment I was responded to gave me the impression Bringslite was thinking of alts, and that they should require active training.
Hoping that they require active "paid for" time to use. That they only be usable when they are on active, experience/skill point earning time.
I am not certain that it would be the best way to do things. I do feel that many problems could be addressed if that were the case though.
I could certainly understand that if PfO could not stand on it's own, that way, another system would be better.
Get your 30 days to try the game when you buy the client/gamecode. If the client/gamecode is free, why was it a reward for kickstarter support?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'd be curious to see what happens if after 2 years, what happens to an account that has gone through its pre paid time from add ons.
Shutting the door on logging in is also shutting the door on the incentive to purchase items in the MTX.
My statement above did not hinge on whether or not we were discussing alts or a main account character either.
The comment I was responded to gave me the impression Bringslite was thinking of alts, and that they should require active training.
Hoping that they require active "paid for" time to use. That they only be usable when they are on active, experience/skill point earning time.
I am not certain that it would be the best way to do things. I do feel that many problems could be addressed if that were the case though.
I could certainly understand that if PfO could not stand on it's own, that way, another system would be better.
Get your 30 days to try the game when you buy the client/gamecode. If the client/gamecode is free, why was it a reward for kickstarter support?
If I understand you correctly, you're saying 1 paid account per character. This not only makes the game Pay-to-Win, but it also severally limits the player based economy.
A great deal if crafting is done by alt characters, that are typically not very skill needy as compared to a combat oriented character.
I think this is very, very unlikely the direction GW goes.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Hoping that they require active "paid for" time to use. That they only be usable when they are on active, experience/skill point earning time.
I could also see some grace period, so a player could log on an inactive character if that was required to access (PFO's PLEX-equivalent) and spend it on the character. That grace period might be measured in minutes per month, if that was its purpose. It only has to be long enough to log-on, grab PLEX, and use PLEX.
Or the grace time could be scaled based on the character's total xp (since that's a measure of how much that character has paid into the game).
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'd be curious to see what happens if after 2 years, what happens to an account that has gone through its pre paid time from add ons.
Shutting the door on logging in is also shutting the door on the incentive to purchase items in the MTX.
My statement above did not hinge on whether or not we were discussing alts or a main account character either.
The comment I was responded to gave me the impression Bringslite was thinking of alts, and that they should require active training.
Hoping that they require active "paid for" time to use. That they only be usable when they are on active, experience/skill point earning time.
I am not certain that it would be the best way to do things. I do feel that many problems could be addressed if that were the case though.
I could certainly understand that if PfO could not stand on it's own, that way, another system would be better.
Get your 30 days to try the game when you buy the client/gamecode. If the client/gamecode is free, why was it a reward for kickstarter support?
If I understand you correctly, you're saying 1 paid account per character. This not only makes the game Pay-to-Win, but it also severally limits the player based economy.
A great deal if crafting is done by alt characters, that are typically not very skill needy as compared to a combat oriented character.
I think this is very, very unlikely the direction GW goes.
There is room on a single account for lots of characters. Room for some "active" and some not. Especially if we could divide time between them as we like.
I am not sure that it is an unlikely direction. As Ryan has posted and Nihimon has pointed out, they are not sure "what" they may need to do or "what they will do according developing needs and limits.
There are many concerns with FTP alts and characters paid to a certain level and then "coasting FTP". You have argued that people will just have multiple paid characters anyway. I say: Great! Instead of all of these FTP toons causing trouble, make those that want to have these extra toons (for mischief) pay for it. There will certainly be less of them then, and GW will make bank.
And yes, that applies to those that use their alts in good ways too. You could always pay for a few hours on those toons if that is all you need at a moment.
Hordes of players multi boxing for free, sounds like a nightmare. Hordes of FTP toons just for unlimited storage, sounds like a nightmare. Hordes of FTP toons that could actually alter a settlement's rep average, sounds like a nightmare. Etc... etc...
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Goblin Squad Member
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Hoping that they require active "paid for" time to use. That they only be usable when they are on active, experience/skill point earning time.I could also see some grace period, so a player could log on an inactive character if that was required to access (PFO's PLEX-equivalent) and spend it on the character. That grace period might be measured in minutes per month, if that was its purpose. It only has to be long enough to log-on, grab PLEX, and use PLEX.
Or the grace time could be scaled based on the character's total xp (since that's a measure of how much that character has paid into the game).
Maybe you could access the MTX from the login screen, or assign "unassigned" playtime to characters as needed before actually entering game.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I would think a reasonable solution would be to let you play any Character on an Account that has at least one Character training. This actually creates an incentive to put all your Characters on one Account, which I think would be a good. As I've said elsewhere, if the game creates incentives to segregate your Alts onto separate Accounts for essentially random reasons, then there's a temptation to go ahead and Grief or break rules with the alt because the Player knows the rest of his Accounts are protected. If the game instead creates incentives to put all your Characters on the same Account, then the reverse is true, and Players have to premeditate the choice to create an Alt that's segregated from the Characters on their Main Account, which I believe will reduce their temptation to Grief, etc.
I would think a reasonable solution would be to let you play any Character on an Account that has at least one Character training. This actually creates an incentive to put all your Characters on one Account, which I think would be a good. As I've said elsewhere, if the game creates incentives to segregate your Alts onto separate Accounts for essentially random reasons, then there's a temptation to go ahead and Grief or break rules with the alt because the Player knows the rest of his Accounts are protected. If the game instead creates incentives to put all your Characters on the same Account, then the reverse is true, and Players have to premeditate the choice to create an Alt that's segregated from the Characters on their Main Account, which I believe will reduce their temptation to Grief, etc.
This suggestion in my view changes nothing. In Eve I have multiple accounts
because a) I can only log on one character at a time per account
because b) I can only train one character per time per account
While goblinworks is suggesting a and b is a non issue as it costs me the same to train 2 characters on one account (assumption* see footnote) as two characters on two accounts then I see little reason still to not use 2 accounts rather than 1. The only potential reason being they introduce a high box price (100$ or more on creating an account) should they do so however they also limit the people who will give the game a go.
*Eve sell plex which is the equivalent of goblin balls used for extra training at a premium over and above what a subscription costs. Will Goblinworks do the same? Who knows. If I put characters onto the same account however I leave them vulnerable to a goblinworks hike on the price of goblin balls over and above subscription price whereas I suspect subscription price is likely to remain low to attract new business
Or you could purchase multiple subscriptions on one account.
Did you miss the point about being at the mercy of them raising goblin ball prices for a captive audience or did you just choose to ignore it.
POINT they cannot raise primary subscription prices easily but they can easily as CCP has done increase the cost point of goblin balls
If you're doing two subs on one account, you aren't dealing with PFO-PLEX at all.
They have said you can buy extra training for alts. They have as yet not suggested how this happens.
CCP recently allowed you to get training for more than one character on an account. Guess what it costs more.
Excuse me for being a cynical bastard but CCP and Goblinworks have something in common. They are both companies who have the primary goal of making money.
As I have said my assessment is they will want to keep the price of entry low therefore the first subscription on an account will remain low. Second subscriptions or goblin ball purchases tell them you are on the hook and waiting to be reeled in. Just put a sign over your head saying "fleece me please"
If you want to miss the point, don't let me stop you.
What point did I miss
Show me a quote where it shows how you pay for extra training.
Show me a quote where it says it will cost only as much as a base subscription
Can't do either of those then it is not me missing the point it is you making the assumption they will cost the same.
I am not saying I am right I am saying I could be right and that even if I am wrong then I may be right in the future. A second subscription on one account lets them know you are committed. The first rule of bargaining "never let them know how interested you are"
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Goblin Squad Member
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If I put characters onto the same account however I leave them vulnerable to a goblinworks hike on the price of goblin balls over and above subscription price whereas I suspect subscription price is likely to remain low to attract new business
You do realize that you'll be able to have multiple subscriptions for a single account, don't you? You won't be required to buy <some term for PFO Plex-equivalents> in order to train additional characters on the same account.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If you're doing two subs on one account, you aren't dealing with PFO-PLEX at all.They have said you can buy extra training for alts. They have as yet not suggested how this happens.
As I have said before, we're charging you to train skills. Subscribers don't have to micro-manage their skill training payments, but a subscription still gets you just one character-month of training. You could pay for two subscriptions on one account and double that and train two characters in parallel, or you could use MTX to give some training to a second character in parallel.
Of course the same logic applies for 3, 4, etc. characters.
Seems pretty clear to me that "paying for two subscriptions on one account" is extremely likely to cost the same as paying for two subscriptions on two accounts.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'd actually love to see them give a minor discount for additional subscriptions on the same account. Seems like a win-win. Players get a slight break in the price (maybe something like 5% off), and Goblinworks creates an incentive for most Players to put all their Characters on the same Account. Players who know all their Characters will be affected if they misbehave will be less likely to be jerks.