We might be getting a bit off-topic, and I think that hurts the odds of Goblinworks going over this thread for name ideas.
for my point of view i think players with a subscription should have it for all of their chars in the same account.and subscription should be account based and no char based.
lets say every account have rights to create one char.
the first time you make an active subscription you have max 2 char slots.
as you have your subscription running you get xp to both of them.
if you want to create more chars you need to buy more char slots from the store.
as your subscription remains active all have xp pack running.
if you dont want to use an active subscription you can still buy a char slot from the store but you need to buy xp pack for each of your chars as well to have xp running on them.
that way may someone start with 1 char buy a xp pack from the store and play his char and maybe this will be cheaper than running a monthly subscription but as you are interesting to play 2 or more chars subscription payment is the way to go.
so maybe someone will start with 1 char with no subscription payment but as plays the game all players want to create more than 1 char and they have to run an active subscription because other way the cost will be alot of times higher.that way you encourage them even if they start the game with no subscription to turn them as full subscribers at some point.
Goblin Squad Member
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I'm going to keep using Goblin Balls, despite the negative adjectives it apparently makes me, as an inside joke for the other people who have been here. :)
I'm with you Pax Shane. Goblin Balls is the only way i will refer to them. Makes for a nice slogan to put in the trade chat...
WTB Chat: "Got Balls?'
WTS Chat: "I got balls to spare"
"No Shirt"
"No Shoes"
"No Balls"
"No Way... You Play"
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Goblin Squad Member
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I didn´t read through the whole threat, so if this was suggested before(which it probably was) please pardon my ignorance/just ignore this post.
- so, what is it for?
it´s there to pay a trainer to teach you skills, correct?
so, why not something like apprentice's due?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I usually find something dirty in everything I see, but to be honest I never even THOUGHT about goblin testicles. I equated Goblin Balls to Pokemon Balls and I'm way too old to justify knowing what a Pokemon Ball is.
If they made the graphic for Goblin Balls a sphere with a goblin face on it it might pacify any prudes who see vulgarity everywhere they look. I just haven't seen a valid argument against using Goblin Balls.
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Goblin Squad Member
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In some fantasy IP's the local currency has an official name, but a local slang name is often invoked according to the "Imperial System" of denominations eg Shillings, Tuppence - so translating that you'd get an equivalent of Goblins, Crowns (as per the symbol on the type of coin) a bit like how Pub signs were intended to be recognizable pictures for the name of the Pub, for a largely illiterate population.
This is all getting a tad dramatic, and I haven't even brought up my opinions on fighter power levels yet.
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THEY'RE OP
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Goblin Squad Member
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Meh. So are wizards' high level spells. I mean any character can be "broken". but also remember, it won't translate exactly over. They are not "player classes" but rather "player skills"
you don't become a higher leveled fighter character, you become a character more skilled in fighting
Speaking as someone who's gotten in plenty of arguments over whether or not fighters are grossly underpowered because they can't do magic...yeah. Don't wanna get into it. I'm rather outnumbered, after all.
It was a joke.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm so confused on this, I guess my research skills have failed me? Are you telling me Pathfinder Online will have a cash shop? I thought it was solely a subscription model? Oh man, if there are convenience items or ways for players to gain an advantage by paying for special items/resources I will definitely have to rethink my interest in this game.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm so confused on this, I guess my research skills have failed me? Are you telling me Pathfinder Online will have a cash shop? I thought it was solely a subscription model? Oh man, if there are convenience items or ways for players to gain an advantage by paying for special items/resources I will definitely have to rethink my interest in this game.
It will have both. The cash shop will not be providing advantage. It's more for cosmetics like horse/item reskins or character titles.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm so confused on this, I guess my research skills have failed me? Are you telling me Pathfinder Online will have a cash shop? I thought it was solely a subscription model? Oh man, if there are convenience items or ways for players to gain an advantage by paying for special items/resources I will definitely have to rethink my interest in this game.It will have both. The cash shop will not be providing advantage. It's more for cosmetics like horse/item reskins or character titles.
Yeah, potions and extra stuff like that. No way to get an advantage like gold so you can pick up whatever you want.
Oh wait, Thats what Goblin Balls do. Just sell some Goblin Balls on the market and buy whatever items you need. It will only cost you $19.95.
Yes Nevy, they are going with a cash shop, they say it will be very limited... at first, but everyone ignores Goblin Balls as the pay to win element.
And yes, buying gold (exactly what goblin balls do) is pay to win
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm so confused on this, I guess my research skills have failed me? Are you telling me Pathfinder Online will have a cash shop? I thought it was solely a subscription model? Oh man, if there are convenience items or ways for players to gain an advantage by paying for special items/resources I will definitely have to rethink my interest in this game.It will have both. The cash shop will not be providing advantage. It's more for cosmetics like horse/item reskins or character titles.
Has Goblinworks released the reasoning for including this?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Has Goblinworks released the reasoning for including this?I'm so confused on this, I guess my research skills have failed me? Are you telling me Pathfinder Online will have a cash shop? I thought it was solely a subscription model? Oh man, if there are convenience items or ways for players to gain an advantage by paying for special items/resources I will definitely have to rethink my interest in this game.It will have both. The cash shop will not be providing advantage. It's more for cosmetics like horse/item reskins or character titles.
So they can make more money from people who want to give them more money.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Has Goblinworks released the reasoning for including this?I'm so confused on this, I guess my research skills have failed me? Are you telling me Pathfinder Online will have a cash shop? I thought it was solely a subscription model? Oh man, if there are convenience items or ways for players to gain an advantage by paying for special items/resources I will definitely have to rethink my interest in this game.It will have both. The cash shop will not be providing advantage. It's more for cosmetics like horse/item reskins or character titles.
Ryan has said, because everyone else is doing it, and gamers have lots of disposable income that he can get.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm so confused on this, I guess my research skills have failed me? Are you telling me Pathfinder Online will have a cash shop? I thought it was solely a subscription model? Oh man, if there are convenience items or ways for players to gain an advantage by paying for special items/resources I will definitely have to rethink my interest in this game.It will have both. The cash shop will not be providing advantage. It's more for cosmetics like horse/item reskins or character titles.Yeah, potions and extra stuff like that. No way to get an advantage like gold so you can pick up whatever you want.
Oh wait, Thats what Goblin Balls do. Just sell some Goblin Balls on the market and buy whatever items you need. It will only cost you $19.95.
Yes Nevy, they are going with a cash shop, they say it will be very limited... at first, but everyone ignores Goblin Balls as the pay to win element.
And yes, buying gold (exactly what goblin balls do) is pay to win
Your sarcasm is lost on me as I don't know how this will work. What kind of potions? Potions that could be player made, like healing potions? Oh jeez I'm scared indeed... I can't believe I had no idea this game was going to include a cash shop. I'm so heartbroken.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm so confused on this, I guess my research skills have failed me? Are you telling me Pathfinder Online will have a cash shop? I thought it was solely a subscription model? Oh man, if there are convenience items or ways for players to gain an advantage by paying for special items/resources I will definitely have to rethink my interest in this game.It will have both. The cash shop will not be providing advantage. It's more for cosmetics like horse/item reskins or character titles.Yeah, potions and extra stuff like that. No way to get an advantage like gold so you can pick up whatever you want.
Oh wait, Thats what Goblin Balls do. Just sell some Goblin Balls on the market and buy whatever items you need. It will only cost you $19.95.
Yes Nevy, they are going with a cash shop, they say it will be very limited... at first, but everyone ignores Goblin Balls as the pay to win element.
And yes, buying gold (exactly what goblin balls do) is pay to win
So, a game that is being marketed as being a huge sandbox, where everything is player made and the economy player driven is going to include pay to win. Might as well shut the game down already. I'm completely surprised and appalled and will not be giving money to the crowd funding effort. Hugely disappointed.
***Edit
Let me also add if what being said here is true Ryan and Goblinworks should be much more forthcoming about this on this website and in interviews. I've followed PO for a while and I've never once heard a cash shop mentioned. I honestly feel a bit duped and I'm glad you've enlightened me to this fact before the Goblinstore opened.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Your sarcasm is lost on me as I don't know how this will work. What kind of potions? Potions that could be player made, like healing potions? Oh jeez I'm scared indeed... I can't believe I had no idea this game was going to include a cash shop. I'm so heartbroken.I'm so confused on this, I guess my research skills have failed me? Are you telling me Pathfinder Online will have a cash shop? I thought it was solely a subscription model? Oh man, if there are convenience items or ways for players to gain an advantage by paying for special items/resources I will definitely have to rethink my interest in this game.It will have both. The cash shop will not be providing advantage. It's more for cosmetics like horse/item reskins or character titles.Yeah, potions and extra stuff like that. No way to get an advantage like gold so you can pick up whatever you want.
Oh wait, Thats what Goblin Balls do. Just sell some Goblin Balls on the market and buy whatever items you need. It will only cost you $19.95.
Yes Nevy, they are going with a cash shop, they say it will be very limited... at first, but everyone ignores Goblin Balls as the pay to win element.
And yes, buying gold (exactly what goblin balls do) is pay to win
Sorry about the sarcasm, This is one of the deal breaker things for me about PFO. Ill be watching that store like a hawk, and if they do anything other then whats stated, Im out.
Yes, they are talking about potions, like healing potions. No real specifics past that. Everyone says cosmetics and such, but its just speculation right now. Ryan did make a statement what he hopes to see, but nothing solid.
The Goblin Balls are the sale of a months subscription that you can turn around and sell in game for gold to other people. They get the time you get the gold.
I agreed that this one was acceptable since there will be gold sellers hitting game as soon as we hit Open Enrollment. I still dont like it. I played Eve for a long time, and to me it was no different then buying gold from a 3rd party. except the game makers get the money at an inflated price.
No one wants to take the time to play the game, they want their power now. Kinda sad really.
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Goblin Squad Member
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So, a game that is being marketed as being a huge sandbox, where everything is player made and the economy player driven is going to include pay to win. Might as well shut the game down already. I'm completely surprised and appalled and will not be giving money to the crowd funding effort. Hugely disappointed.I'm so confused on this, I guess my research skills have failed me? Are you telling me Pathfinder Online will have a cash shop? I thought it was solely a subscription model? Oh man, if there are convenience items or ways for players to gain an advantage by paying for special items/resources I will definitely have to rethink my interest in this game.It will have both. The cash shop will not be providing advantage. It's more for cosmetics like horse/item reskins or character titles.Yeah, potions and extra stuff like that. No way to get an advantage like gold so you can pick up whatever you want.
Oh wait, Thats what Goblin Balls do. Just sell some Goblin Balls on the market and buy whatever items you need. It will only cost you $19.95.
Yes Nevy, they are going with a cash shop, they say it will be very limited... at first, but everyone ignores Goblin Balls as the pay to win element.
And yes, buying gold (exactly what goblin balls do) is pay to win
I will say this, player crafted items are not going to be in the store. At least Ryan has stated that. (I still hold to, for now... Ive seen several stores expand from cosmetics items only to power items once they realize they can make tons of cash)
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Goblin Squad Member
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***Edit
Let me also add if what being said here is true Ryan and Goblinworks should be much more forthcoming about this on this website and in interviews. I've followed PO for a while and I've never once heard a cash shop mentioned. I honestly feel a bit duped and I'm glad you've enlightened me to this fact before the Goblinstore opened.
I felt that way as well.
They have only talked about it in threads, I argued with Ryan for days about it. For the store anyway.
For the Goblin Balls (PLEX), I think it was in one of the early blogs, but Im not sure. I dont like this, but will accept it since gold sellers will be here if not.
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Goblin Squad Member
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// Exchange of Services (XoS)
// Rune of Lesser Knowledge (RoLK)
If we were going with more conceptual thinking (like Skymetal bits):
// Leaf of Learning (LoL)
// Foremark (FMK)
// Bramblethorn Wine (BTW)
// Crafty Coins (CC)
I am not sure if we are coming up with viable concepts or just having fun, but we seem to be doing both so don't stop now ;-P
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I'm gonna disagree with the assertion that Ryan and his crew were the least bit deceptive about the presence of the cash shop. It is frequently mentioned on the blog and forums. There are whole threads discussing it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Xeen's got a point about cash shop precedent from benign to malignant.
But it seems F2P or more accurately MTX (cos it's Free To Try) is more conducive to pricing for mmorpgs.
I sort of think if community then membership fee but realized there's a huge space below that to price curve upwards to membership.
@Nevy: Proly need to read up Kickstarter Community Tread: Subscriptions and Microtransactions
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Goblin Squad Member
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Your sarcasm is lost on me as I don't know how this will work. What kind of potions? Potions that could be player made, like healing potions? Oh jeez I'm scared indeed... I can't believe I had no idea this game was going to include a cash shop. I'm so heartbroken.
Nevy, this is good. It's like some unholy combination of snark and sarcasm. Snarkhasm, that's the word. If you're serious, it's still funny.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Don't worry about the Pay to Win element. Like myself, I feel that by the time they implement the store module (after 17+months when OE hits) they are going to have changed a lot of parts in the game drastically, and I feel like that will be a part of it. Or it should. Part of why I feel they need a better "FtP" option.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Your sarcasm is lost on me as I don't know how this will work. What kind of potions? Potions that could be player made, like healing potions? Oh jeez I'm scared indeed... I can't believe I had no idea this game was going to include a cash shop. I'm so heartbroken.Nevy, this is good. It's like some unholy combination of snark and sarcasm. Snarkhasm, that's the word. If you're serious, it's still funny.
I'm glad I could provide a giggle! I'm sure it has been mentioned in blogs, or perhaps a thread where people wholly invested in Pathfinder Online would chance upon. However, for a more casual person like myself, I can honestly say in all the interviews I've watched and articles read I've never come across the mention of a cash shop. Perhaps I should reiterate my earlier meaning: I'm sure there isn't some foul scheme to hide the presence of a cash shop, it just doesn't seem to be mentioned "that much." My only point was that it definitely should be stated somewhere quite noticeable that Pathfinder Online will indeed include a cash shop and the EXACT things a player would find in said shop. This is highly important and excuse me if I'd like to be well informed on this before donating my personal funds.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Gravestone's Obol or Gravestone Obol, used to pay the Endless Gravestone, servant of Pharasma, to ferry your soul back from the Boneyard in the Outer Sphere for another month.
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CEO, Goblinworks
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My only point was that it definitely should be stated somewhere quite noticeable that Pathfinder Online will indeed include a cash shop and the EXACT things a player would find in said shop.
I totally agree.
That's why the FAQ, which was included with the Goblinworks website when it went live in November of 2011 includes the following information about the game:
Will there be a cost to play Pathfinder Online?
We are planning a hybrid subscription/microtransaction model. Players will have the option to pay a flat monthly fee for complete access to all standard game features, or to use microtransactions to access desired features and content on an a la carte basis. Pricing details have not yet been finalized.
Will there be premium content?
Yes. Several types of premium content can be purchased using microtransactions. This content includes "bling"—visual enhancements to the character or the character's property that have no mechanical effect; a wide variety of mounts that let you customize your ride and show your personal sense of style; and adventure content packaged like classic adventure modules that you and your friends will be able to play through as a group.
And, in the blog we posted in May 2012, titled "Money Changes Everything" we said:
Stored Value and MTX
Pathfinder Online will also have a robust microtransaction (MTX) economy as well. This system runs in parallel to the in–game economy, and the two have very limited and very controlled places where they interact.
We start with stored value. We're currently calling this "Skymetal Bits." Each account has a Skymetal bank, and you can purchase Skymetal Bits from Goblinworks using a variety of payment methods. Because there are overhead costs involved in processing credit and debit cards, there will be a minimum amount that you can purchase at one time. We haven't set that minimum yet, but expect it to be in line with other MMOs at around USD $5-10.
The other part of this system is the Skymetal Bits store, which will be accessible both in–game and via our website. In the store, you'll be able to see prices and features of all the things you can purchase with Skymetal Bits.
You'll use Skymetal Bits to purchase four kinds of things:
Enhancements to your account: Things like having multiple characters, paying for skill training, and other premium services
Convenience consumables: Things that your characters might want to use in–game in lieu of relying on always having specialist characters with you while you adventure, or as a way to recover from an encounter that goes horribly awry
Bling: Visual displays that have no in–game mechanical effect, such as specialized clothing, decorations for buildings, and interesting–looking mounts.
Theme park adventure content: In–game modules that you can unlock for yourself and your friends
From time to time we may offer a variety of other things that are linked to Skymetal Bits—things like access to Pathfinder Online conventions, real–world apparel, or other such merchandise.
The Skymetal Bits store will not sell much in the way of items with in–game mechanical benefits. You won't be able to use Skymetal Bits to purchase awesome arms and armor, or magic items, or the ability to summon powerful entities to slay your foes. In other words, you won't be able to bypass the need to play the game in order for your characters to become more skilled and powerful over time.
End of discussion.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Thanks for the details. What is your reasoning of including a cash shop in a game so focused on economy? Do you fear the possible negative effects of such inclusion? If so, how do you plan on preventing Pathfinder Online from becoming "pay to win" or perhaps more accurately, "pay to be wealthy?"
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Goblin Squad Member
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More ideas:
// Gold neck chain (BLING)
// Shiny glass bauble (BAUBLE)
// A gift from the Don (FAVOUR)
// A Secret Sign (ASS - okay, that one might not be ideal as an acronym)
// Whispered Goblin Winks (WINKs)
// Bits'n'bobs (BOBs)
// Third Mark (3Ms)
@nevy - "End of discussion" usually means the end of the discussion ;-)
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Goblin Squad Member
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What is your reasoning of including a cash shop...
I can't find the graph yet (perhaps Nihimon can help), but Ryan showed us that they can come close to doubling their revenue by allowing people who're willing to pay more than the subscription price to give them more money. There's another segment of the graph for revenue they could generate from people who aren't willing to pay a subscription, but are willing to pay *something*; I expect we'll see something clever for allowing those folks--eventually--to support the game as well.
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Goblin Squad Member
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And the term still makes me physically ill. Thanks for making these boards a hostile environment for me.
Maybe you should take a break from this thread then. I'm fairly certain Goblin Bslls will come up quite frequently.
Just a curiosity, does Kobold Nuts have the same effect as Goblin Balls? How about Orc Orbs? Gnome Gnads?
Actually I really like Gnome Gnads, especially with it spelled that way.
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Goblin Squad Member
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What is your reasoning of including a cash shop in a game so focused on economy?
I think it was covered here (from thread: "Goblinworks Basing Cash Shop on Turbine's")
Here's the theory behind MTX.
Imagine a graph with two axis: Vertical is "Amount Player Will Pay Per Month". Horizontal is "Number of Players Who Will Pay".
A traditional subscription creates a square on this graph. You go up the vertical axis to the price of the subscription, and over the horizontal axis to the place where you run out of buyers. The revenue potential of the game is whatever is inside that square.
The genius of MTX is this.
There are some people who would pay something but not a full subscription price. In the subscription model, you get nothing from these people. But with MTX, you allow them to pay something less than the subscription. They play, but they have a reduced experience compared to everyone paying the subscription. But they're playing. And paying.
There are some people who would pay a lot more than the subscription price. In the subscription model, you get nothing more from these people. But with MTX, you create an opportunity for them to give you a lot more money by offering them various things above and beyond what the subscribers are receiving.
This creates two "triangles" of additional revenue - one above the subscription price, and one beyond the limit of the number of people willing to pay for a subscription.
The amount of money represented by those to two triangles can be more than the total of the subscriptions. It represents tremendous upside that is locked for games with flat subscription pricing. MTX unlocks that value.
The challenge is to avoid putting things into the MTX store that degrade the value of the subscription, or that unbalance the game so that an unreasonably high amount of purchases are required to be competitive. ...
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Goblin Squad Member
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Just saying, if we were to use the "name we shouldn't mention anymore", they could be sold in denominations of big and small.Big ones, small ones, ones as big as your head. Goblin Balls come in all sizes!
THEY WHO MUST NOT BE SPOKEN HAVE RETURNNNNNNNNEEEDDDDDDD!
ALL IS LOST!
ALL IS LOST!!
and they come in convenient 4/6/18/24/48 packs :D