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So my question is, would it be unrealistic for these Orcs to follow a detailed battle strategy told to them by a 24 intelligence Wizard?
There are 4-5 players. An evil wizard plans to scry an item, give it to the party. His Orc mooks are outfitted with alchemical goodies, potions and masterwork equipment. He has 12 of them attack the PCs at night if possible. At least a few of them are invisible. Potions of Enlarge person, heal spells and buffs.
The orcs are told to capture the PCs and leave them ill-equipped in the dungeon. A cleric mook stone shapes them inside. Hirelings all killed, along with familiars. Wizards spell books burned. Sacrifices in the game of a Rovagug-worshipping sadistic sociopath.
If repelled, mooks regroup and get reinforcements. This time they attack wildly with a few bugbears. Heavy armor, masterwork weapons, buff potions and the whole shebang.
The dungeon the party gets locked in and/or is seeking? Rappan Athuk. :-P
They're chaotic, and they're known for raging. They might want to follow the plan, but in the heat of the moment, when they see four of their comrades get disemboweled and fireballed? I'm thinking they're gonna improvise their own plan.
Unless the Wizard has them mind controlled, and has made his commands impossible to disobey.
Well I decided on giving the little guys an INT check in battle whenever something might trigger their blood rage. Wizard has these guys pretty well outfitted. Base modules gives them a 9 int so they are no slouches... Guess it's unrealistic they'd remember to burn the spell casters components or spell books though :P
Well, are they experienced warriors? They might know to do that simply because that's how Wizards hurt them and they'd learned the hard way.
What's their WIS?
bob_the_monster wrote: Well I decided on giving the little guys an INT check in battle whenever something might trigger their blood rage. Wizard has these guys pretty well outfitted. Base modules gives them a 9 int so they are no slouches... Guess it's unrealistic they'd remember to burn the spell casters components or spell books though :P Uhh, why is that unrealistic? You think 9 int makes them that stupid?
This is far more a question of whether or not they care to follow the directions than if they're capable of it.
Make one of them the Orc Leader. Give him 11 INT, and 16 WIS.
This wizard what kind of carrot stick ratio is he using? If the wizard is competent as a leader; he will sent a capable officer or two. It depends on how brutal you want to be.
Well, first... it really depends on his charisma score, not his intelligence so much. If his charisma score is decent, he'd have a better time explaining his plan.
Next, if he is the scheming type who wants orderly soldiers... why is he using Orcs instead of Hobgoblins?
Next, well... even if they are Orcs, they don't necessarily need to adhere to all the stereotypes of all Orcs period. He's only got... a dozen of them? Look, I would assume those would be the dozen most disciplined and intelligent.
Now, where it is going to count is when the fight breaks out. If the fight generally goes in their way and they don't struggle much, sure.. the Orcs would have no trouble sticking to their plans. If they get broken, bloody, one or more of them die in the attempt and they really have to call upon their inner monster to overcome the PCs and survive the battle? Well, far more chance that they are going to get lost in the battle lust and keep chopping at their foes until there isn't much left of them.
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The Big Bad is a highly charismatic, highly intelligent lich with class levels in Wizard. He's manipulating the Orc's leaders back at Belzken through Geass/Quest, Leadership, outright bribery and force when absolutely needed. The power of being a level 16+ lich and what not. In return they 'allow' him to maintain his little playground in Rappan Athuk and sacrifice people for his rituals. Of course, the Orcs are convinced this is all for the unending glory of Orcus, Rovagug, Horsemen and numerous other (un)holy figures.
The carrot-to-stick ratio is that this BBEG has full access to high PC-level wealth and level 7 Wizard spells, and he's lived for quite awhile. In this story, the Orcs of Belzken are abducting dozens from bordering villages, to the point where Lastwall has to become involved.
I think it's probably brutal to give CR 1/3 Orcs access to potions of Enlarge Person, Bull's Strength, Cure Mod, Invisibility and Prot (Good) and even masterwork weaponry.. but these are well-funded mooks from a disturbingly well-organized raiding force. So I see changing the stat block as fully justifiable :p
Am I really just being too mean? I mean these are experienced players..
I don't think you're being mean at all. These are Orcs. War and combat and doing dirty work is their jam, baby.
As long as the next five games aren't just Hostel vs. Saw, and your players get to get out and murder some mofos, I think you'll be ok.
If a pack of wolves at a whopping Int of 2 can work together strategically and flank their prey, I think a pack of Orcs, with good leadership, should be able to do the same even with the dismal Int of 8.
bob_the_monster wrote: So my question is, would it be unrealistic for these Orcs to follow a detailed battle strategy told to them by a 24 intelligence Wizard?
There are 4-5 players. An evil wizard plans to scry an item, give it to the party. His Orc mooks are outfitted with alchemical goodies, potions and masterwork equipment. He has 12 of them attack the PCs at night if possible. At least a few of them are invisible. Potions of Enlarge person, heal spells and buffs.
The orcs are told to capture the PCs and leave them ill-equipped in the dungeon. A cleric mook stone shapes them inside. Hirelings all killed, along with familiars. Wizards spell books burned. Sacrifices in the game of a Rovagug-worshipping sadistic sociopath.
If repelled, mooks regroup and get reinforcements. This time they attack wildly with a few bugbears. Heavy armor, masterwork weapons, buff potions and the whole shebang.
The dungeon the party gets locked in and/or is seeking? Rappan Athuk. :-P
The orcs need a leader, perhaps the cleric, who at least has some Wisdom and Charisma. The really smart wizard should know their limitations and possible language barrier anyway, so should know to keep plans for them simple.
They can follow plans, sure - but plans never work out as planned. The real question is whether or not they've got the wherewithal to think up a new plan on the spot when the old one falls through.
My response? Probably not.
I've read somewhere the idea that while orcs aren't all that bright, orc chieftains often try to sire Half-Orcs to breed smarter lieutenants.
Kazaan wrote: If a pack of wolves at a whopping Int of 2 can work together strategically and flank their prey, I think a pack of Orcs, with good leadership, should be able to do the same even with the dismal Int of 8. I really don't think it is a question of whether they have the intelligence to work together as a pack. They most certainly do. Orcs work in formations and take up specialized roles in a battle all the time.
The trouble isn't the intelligence.
Rather the trouble is whether the Orcs would have the willpower or self-control not to just flat out kill someone instead of going through what seems like a silly and self-destructive plan of simply knocking them out, taking their stuff and dumping them somewhere.
Especially once the battle becomes difficult and their bloodlust kicks in or the PCs skewer their friends in the process of trying to knock them out.
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The plan is relatively simple and violent. Why should the average orc have any problem with it?
Not unrealistic at all. Int 9 doesn't make them retards, that would be int 3-5.
Int 9 is more like the kid who got b's in high school despite really trying hard.
My only warning with this plan is to not gimp your characters too much if they loose.
Having the wizard not be able to cast or prepare spells really takes away from his enjoyment. I would say let him keep a limited amount of his spells. Say roll a d20 and keep the ones higher then 10. Assume that he also have the components for those spells. Maybe he had his 2nd spell book stashed away in his robes.
I liked the old AD&D explanation... INT 8 or 9 was the captain of the football team, the guy that breathed through his mouth unintentionally. Still human intelligence, but near the low end of "stoopid".
In this case, the Orcs are told that these humanoids are sacrifices for their death God Orcus. As they are from Belzken and largely mind-washed loyalists, they will probably follow orders.
Basically these are black orcs. They are part of a frighteningly well-trained military force. Leaders supplied through lich Wizard BBEG. The high command at Belzken has a new supplier, and they're not at all disappointed Orcus and Rovagug have answered their 'prayers'.
Long and short of it is, Lastwall's Paladin force is starting to get creamed -- badly -- and they're resurrecting powerful PCs en-masse. Entire villages are being raided by well-outfitted Orc raiders. When the Orcs aren't sufficient, they send in Bugbears. Create diversions, raiding parties, recon teams of Invisible Stalkers and poltergeists and ultimately prey on those disaffected by society.
Having a 9 intelligence does not make you stupid. You are probably a little slow but can understand everything a normal person would be able to understand, it just takes you a little bit longer. This is probably the equivalent to a straight C student. I would consider someone with a 7 intelligence to be kind of dumb, but still functional. It also matters what your other mental stats are.
If you have a 9 intelligence and a 12 wisdom for example you are going to be pretty close to average. You may be a little slower but have enough common sense to make up for it. If on the other hand you have a 7 intelligence and a 7 Wisdom you are going to be about as bright as All Bundy on married with children.
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