Hey all, a friend of mine is looking to play a cleric character inspired by Chains from the Locke Lamora novels. You see she originally wanted to go straight rogue, but since she's the last one to join the table,.. and we didn't have a healer yet... Well you know. Cleric it is!
So I have been looking for a rogue / cleric hybrid class or something of the like but this area of design space seems to be lacking. I no longer have access to all the old 3.5 sources even if I could convince my GM to let that in. I've seen the Divine Agent over in Cartmanbeck's lab over on d20pfrd.com and though interesting it plays up the sneak attack angle a lot and that doesn't really fit the concept that well.
Basically we are looking for skill monkey + healing.
Currently we have her built as a Cleric with the Cooperation and Thievery subdomains. Gave her Team Pickpocketing for her 1st feat, and going for the usual Selective Chanel at 3rd.
Anyway any pointers would be welcome :)
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I think it was for 3.5 D&D but Rich Berluw (writes Order of the Stick webcomic over at Giant in the Playground website) did a Divine Trickster PRC.
It's about five or six posts down on this page Archived Articles of GitP
It may or may not be helpful...
Just snag the trickery domains, a good int score and a few traits for class skills.
Just play an Inquisitor
Bard or Inquisitor are better than trying to mix Cleric and Rogue. The Divine spell list just doesn't suit a skilled/stealthy playstyle at all.
I second (Third?)Inquisitor. Its your Hybrid DPS Cleric. And its a blast to boot.
Going with the Inquisitor...
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Hey all, a friend of mine is looking to play a cleric character inspired by Chains from the Locke Lamora novels. You see she originally wanted to go straight rogue, but since she's the last one to join the table,.. and we didn't have a healer yet... Well you know. Cleric it is!
If inquisitor isn't an appealing option for her, then just let her play a straight rogue and give the party some wands of CLW and lesser restoration. Don't force your friend to play a class she doesn't want to so the party has some role filled (especially when that role is healbot).
Inquisitor would be my first suggestion. But if she doesn't like the inquisitor, maybe the alchemist? I think there is an archetype that replaces the bomb with sneak attack.
Inquisitor would be my first suggestion. But if she doesn't like the inquisitor, maybe the alchemist? I think there is an archetype that replaces the bomb with sneak attack.
Vivisectionist.
Inquisitor would be my first suggestion. But if she doesn't like the inquisitor, maybe the alchemist? I think there is an archetype that replaces the bomb with sneak attack.
Yeah Vivisectionist/Chirurgeon alchemist is the best rogue/healer in the game. Inquisitor is a divine/rogue hybrid in many ways, but not much of a healer, overall.
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Well, as long as the inquisitor can cast CLW, the "healer" role is fulfilled with wands. There's not much of a need to put any more investment into healing than that. I've often found that proactive defenses are better at keeping the party alive than having someone who just pumps out healing anyways. In one of my current games, the healer is a warpriest that opens the fight up by stacking on defense spells, distracting the enemy by running up in their face, and buffs up using fervor to go in for the kill, only ever healing to patch up the wounds after the fight or to keep herself running when things go south in the fight.
As for OP's goal of giving someone who wants to play a rogue with healing ability, it depends on if they are looking for a more skill focused character, or want the massive DRR from sneak attack. If it's the first, I would suggest a bard. Sound Striker would offer get back some of the high damage output of the rogue (but spread it out over 10 hits, so DR is a concern) or the songhealer on accounts of it getting the ability to cast Heal as class feature. If they want the sneak attacking, stealthy, assassin like character, the I third the vivisectionist/Chirurgeon. Either play style could fit the inquisitor. Wands are spell trigger items, so both the alchemist can use them.
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Inquisitor is definitely the way to go. Not as good a healer as a straight Cleric...but adequate, assuming she invests Spells Known into it.
And can do basically everything a Rogue does except Disable Device by default (something a Cleric's also going to lack). So, yeah, pretty much a perfect choice for this.
Some oracle mysteries work too, depending on what kind of rogue you kind of want to be. For example, some give good social skills, some give some good movement skills, some give good sneaky skills. Also, there is a curse (Wrecker?) that is effective against locks and/or traps if IRC.
It depends on what you want to focus on. If you want mainly a rogue with minimal healing an archeologist bard is probably your best bet. The cure spells are on their list so wands will do most of the work. They also have a good charisma and UMD as a class skill for using scrolls for condition removal. The archeologist bard is probably the best “Thief” in the game. They even get rogue talents, but not as many, and at a latter levels.
If you want a divine rogue that would be an inquisitor. They have nearly the same number of skill points as a rogue but also have several skills that they get bonus equal to half their level. Take improved monster lore and they are probably the second best skill monkey in the game after a bard. The inquisitor will also be better at combat than either the bard or the rogue. Bane and latter greater bane will more reliable than sneak attack anyways.
Inquisitor is definitely the way to go. Not as good a healer as a straight Cleric...but adequate, assuming she invests Spells Known into it.
And can do basically everything a Rogue does except Disable Device by default (something a Cleric's also going to lack). So, yeah, pretty much a perfect choice for this.
And that's only a trait away.
Well, as long as the inquisitor can cast CLW, the "healer" role is fulfilled with wands.
Condition removal? Resurrection?
Well, as long as the inquisitor can cast CLW, the "healer" role is fulfilled with wands.Condition removal? Resurrection?
Also wand/scroll-based.
About the only thing the inquisitor is going to have a problem with is bringing someone back from the dead. The important condition spells are on their spell list. Pick up a Mnemonic Vestment if you can and keep some scrolls with the condition removal spells and you should be good for most part. If you are human use the favored class bonus for extra spells. I would eventually take cure light wounds as a first level spell, but probably not put a lot more than that into spells known.
About the only thing the inquisitor is going to have a problem with is bringing someone back from the dead.
Which, depending on your group, may not even be an issue. Everybody I know takes this as an opportunity to play something new and lets dead PCs lie.
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ANOTHER voice for the Inquisitor. While I was personally unhappy with the idea because in my mind, "Inquisitor" ought to be a more overtly holy warrior-bent (like the Inquisitor Paladin kit from Baldur's Gate II, and it must be pointed out that Super Genius Games published as part of their Advanced Options series a class they called the Justiciar that does just about that, taking an Inquisitor's magic and replacing it with proportionately more fighting power), it was obvious from the first time I read it that the Advanced Player's Handbook Inquisitor was Paizo trying to make their take on a Priest/Rogue hybrid. If you want Disable Device as a class skill, there are traits that let you tack that on (and the Hermean Blood feat, which is just barely worth taking, although if your DM can offer to facilitate the roleplaying/adventure hooks/"we've been looking for you for some time, prodigal child, you've honored your lineage by the made your mark on the world, so we offer you a boon" potential of the other half of the feat, it could be very much worth taking), or maybe (since such a thing is yet to be formally published) you could homebrew an Archetype that gave that (I could see a variant based, for example, on the original "hashishins", or on CIA/KGB/Mossad/MI6 agent-types, who got that and other features for the sake of taking a more "intrusive" approach to hunting down a faith's enemies).
Understand, if you don't already, that most fantasy-gaming classes are grounded in a "founding 4" broad staple archetypes drawn from millenia of fantasy fiction that's been around since 1st Edition and further canonized by fantasy games of all sorts ever since: The Warrior (aka Fighter or Knight), The Rogue (aka Thief), The Priest (aka Cleric), and the Mage (aka Wizard or Sorcerer), and most classes beyond these pillars are either spun from "what happens if I zoom in and create an extra-specialized sort of this general archetype?" or "What happens if I take two or more of these archetypes and play Doctor Frankenstein with them?" Results include the Bard, who is, more than anything else, a Mage/Rogue hybrid (but was originally more of an equal-parts-everything sort of affair who started off mostly a Fighter who grafted on Rogue, Priest, and Mage abilities with levels), the Alchemist can be viewed as another kind of Mage/Rogue, the Magus is the long-struggled-with Warrior/Mage hybrid (which I'm dissatisfied with, personally - I come from the background of the Might & Magic computer games, which had its Warrior/Mage hybrid, the Archer, figured out from day 1 back in 1986, while, tragicomically, the great patriarch of fantasy-gaming fumbled around with getting the concept for decades and never succeeded as well as Might & Magic), the Paladin is a Warrior/Priest hybrid, the Ranger and Druid might be viewed as a Warrior/Rogue hybrid (as can the Ninja) and Mage/Priest hybrid (again, I cite the Might & Magic games, in which the Druid was't "arguably" but "unambiguously" the Mage/Priest hybrid, likewise the Ninja was a Warrior/Rogue hybrid, the Paladin was more equally Warrior and Priest rather than significantly favoring the former over the latter as D&D Paladins do, and the Ranger was the resident jack-of-all-trades), respectively, the Witch has been cited by some as a Mage/Priest hybrid, as can, with some mental gymnastics, you view the Summoner - one could even go so far (as I do) as to think of the Monk as a tripartite Warrior/Rogue/Priest hybrid.
Will your DM allow third-party stuff? If so, look at Adamant Ents Priest.
I ran one from level 1 to 14. 6SP/lev as standard+human+FCB+2(Int) gave her 10 SP/level. Traits and a feat gave her an extra 4 class skills.
There were various changes of party personnel over those levels and my character found herself fulfilling - and performing well at - a variety of roles. Perhaps not as well as dedicated classes but they don't have 9th-level spells, domain powers, channel energy and bardic knowledge.
Choose domains to complement the intended role and it'd make a very good bard/cleric: Trickery has been mentioned. The Trade subdomain of Travel gives a bonus to social skills. Luck gives rerolls. Law makes skill-checks more reliable.
A straight up Cleric with a domain like Trickery is rather sneaky