Reign of Winter chronicle question


Pathfinder Society

Dark Archive *****

I'm running a home game of Reign of Winter (the entire adventure) and I was wondering if I could hand out PFS chronicles to my players on completion of Maiden, Mother, Crone (MMC). The Guide to Organized Play says they can receive chronicles for content below 9th level. The range for MMC is 8-10, so part of that range is below 9th. Or, does 9th level mean the middle of the range (the sanctioned portion of MMC is a 9th level module)?

Edit: Also, do I get one?

Grand Lodge

yes they will get a chronicle sheet that can be applied to a PC that is between 8th and 10th level.
in a PFS setting the module can be played by any PC that is within the level range.

and yes you get a copy of the chronicle sheet as well.

Dark Archive *****

They are not playing PFS characters.

Grand Lodge

well if they ever create PFS PCs then they will be able to apply the chronicle to that PC when it reaches level 8

Liberty's Edge **

What I would do would make sure

A) They all have PFS Numbers first
B) Fill in a record sheet as they play with the usual business ie character number being assigned to, what faction etc

Dark Archive *****

I know how to report and hand out chronicles. I'm asking for clarification on the rules for running an Adventure Path at home with non PFS characters. I think this falls outside of the pregen rules, since a level 7 could not play 8-10, but I want to be sure.

Scarab Sages *****

I'm doing the same thing and if you read through the rules attached for the chronicles, I'm handing the chronicles out at the times specified in the sanctioned rules. Ex: I'll be handing out the chronicle for Snows of Summer once they get through P5 in the story.

EDIT: I guess I should clarify that I think all the players are creating a new PFS character to apply this to, but it definitely can go to existing characters.

Dark Archive *****

I know which part of the adventure corresponds to the chronicle. I just want a specific clarification on this sentence:

Guide to Organized Play p28 wrote:
For modules and Adventure Path content below 9th level, if you do not have a character in the correct level range, you may use a Pathfinder Society pregenerated character

Is the sanctioned content from Maiden, Mother, Crone considered 9th level content since it is an 8-10 module (e.g. The Harrowing is "an adventure for 9th level characters)?

I'm fairly sure it is 9th level content, but I want to dot my I's and cross my T's.

***** Venture-Agent, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East aka Pirate Rob

Below 9 does not equal 9.

The Harrowing etc does not allow a pregen to be used.

However applying AP credits from campaign mode is done like GM credit.

So all the players get a chronicle sheet, those without characters in the appropriate range receive a chronicle sheet tied to a specific character that will be applied once they reach level 9.

Shadow Lodge

If you run an AP in campaign mode, you need not worry about weather or not you could have played a pregen.

Since the OP was running in campaign mode, they all get chronicles as if they had played pregens, despite that there is no legal pregen for the AP.

Quote:

Alternatively, if you are participating in a Pathfinder

Adventure Path with an ongoing group undertaking the
entire, six-book campaign, you may receive credit for
playing the sanctioned portions of the adventure as if you
had played a pregenerated character
. In this case, GMs
running the Adventure Path are not bound to the rules
of the Pathfinder Society Organized Play campaign (such
as 20 point buy, unavailability of hero points, etc...) when
running the campaign or the sanctioned portion of the
adventure. Pathfinder Society characters and characters
from an ongoing Adventure Path campaign may not play
in the same adventure.

Dark Archive *****

To me, that bolded portion triggers the pregen rules, which Maiden, Mother, Crone is outside.

Shadow Lodge

Jauk wrote:
To me, that bolded portion triggers the pregen rules, which Maiden, Mother, Crone is outside.

Except that the intent is that you can run the entire AP in campaign mode and apply all 6 chronicles. If you ran the game in campaign mode you are free to assign the chronicles.

Dark Archive *****

Is there a post or FAQ to confirm this RAI clarification? Because I couldn't find one.

Shadow Lodge

Jauk wrote:
Is there a post or FAQ to confirm this RAI clarification? Because I couldn't find one.

I seem to recall a post by Mike Brock saying something along the lines of apply the chronicles as if they were GM chronicles.

That being said, the rule says if you are undertaking the entire six book campaign you may receive credit for playing the sanctioned portions of the adventure. Surely if you were only able to get the first 3 chronicles it would say sanctioned portions of the first two books. Or it would imply that the later books must be run in Module Mode.

Shadow Lodge

Here's the full relevant text from the Reign of Winter rules:

For the sanctioned content in “The Snows of Summer” and “The Shackled Hut,” if you do not have a character in the correct level range, you may use a Pathfinder Society pregenerated character, available on paizo.com. You may apply the credit for the adventure to a Pathfinder Society character as soon as she reaches the level of the pregenerated character played. Equipment listed on the pregenerated character sheet may only be sold to clear conditions, such as death, during the play of the adventure and any remaining wealth does not carry over at the end of the sanctioned content.
Alternatively, if you are participating in the Reign of Winter Adventure Path with an ongoing group undertaking the entire, six-chapter campaign, you may receive credit for playing the sanctioned portions of the adventure as if you had played a pregenerated character. In this case, GMs running the Adventure Path are not bound to the rules of the Pathfinder Society Organized Play campaign (such as 20-point buy, unavailability of hero points, etc.) when running the campaign or the sanctioned portion of the adventure. Pathfinder Society characters and characters from an ongoing Adventure Path campaign may not play in the same adventure.

The important word is Alternatively the Alternatively paragraph stands on its own, and ignores all the rest of the rules, because it is an alternative. Using the Alternative option, you are not bound by the rules of organized play, it says that right in the paragraph, but you can apply the chronicles.

Dark Archive *****

Michael Brock wrote:
Michael Madison wrote:

I had another question, just wanted to make sure I'm reading it properly.

Per the rules, you can run your own home game and receive credit in PFS as if playing a pregen. So for Shattered Star that means you can only get credit for Shards of Sin and Curse of the Lady's Light because pregens can't be played in The Asylum Stone and beyond, correct? Or is it intended to still be able to gain credit, just with the "hold or reduce" rule?

-Michael

That is correct. You can use a pregen found for download HERE or in the iconic section of the NPC Codex.

For the 9th+ level content, you will need to play your PFS character, or if you receive the Chronicle from home play, hold the CHronicle until your PFS character is that level.

http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5le7p&page=2?Sanctioning-Adve nture-Paths-for-Pathfinder#61

Edit: I think that adequately answers my question. Sorry for being so obstinate.

Shadow Lodge ***

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Jauk, you're taking that one line out of context. All it is saying is that if you are playing a sanctioned portion of the AP (not the entire thing) below 9th level in a PFS setting then you CAN use a pregen since pregens only go up to level 7. Otherwise you are using a PFS character. Again, this is only if you are playing the sanctioned portion as a PFS module.

The reason it's 9th level is because all of the sanctioned AP sections are a 3-level tier. In order to play a 7th level pregen the tier, at most, would have to be 7-9.

The whole following paragraph and the section after tells you how to apply credit if you are playing the entire campaign in a home game setting. Basically, everyone applies the credit just like GM credit. You can apply credit from all 6 books, not just the content below 9th level. The characters just won't benefit from the chronicles until the PFS character they apply it to hits the minimum level of the chronicle.

Liberty's Edge ***** Venture-Agent, United Kingdom—England—Chester aka Paz

1 person marked this as a favorite.

To be crystal clear, if a GM is running an adventure path campaign as a home game (not PFS rules), then once the sanctioned section of a chapter is over, he can hand out chronicle sheets to his players and himself. If the chronicle sheet is marked as tier 8-10, then the players' options are:

- Apply the chronicle immediately to a PFS PC of level 8-10.
- Assign the chronicle to a PFS PC of a lower level, then apply it immediately as soon as the PC reaches level 8.
- Apply the chronicle immediately to a 1st-level PFS PC, with the gold reward reduced to 1398 gp.

The GM can choose from the first two (the third isn't an option for GMs under the current rules).

Shadow Lodge

Paz wrote:
- Apply the chronicle immediately to a 1st-level PFS PC, with the gold reward reduced to 1398 gp.

Am I correct in my assumption that if a player selects this option that they still have the boons and access to the items on the sheet? I see nothing in the guide that says that you lose access to any boons or items by reducing the gold, but some of the AP chronicles have really powerful things on them that might be a little much for 1st level characters.

Shadow Lodge ***

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Dylos wrote:
Paz wrote:
- Apply the chronicle immediately to a 1st-level PFS PC, with the gold reward reduced to 1398 gp.
Am I correct in my assumption that if a player selects this option that they still have the boons and access to the items on the sheet? I see nothing in the guide that says that you lose access to any boons or items by reducing the gold, but some of the AP chronicles have really powerful things on them that might be a little much for 1st level characters.

Yes, only the gold is changed.

Shadow Lodge ***

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Paz wrote:

To be crystal clear, if a GM is running an adventure path campaign as a home game (not PFS rules), then once the sanctioned section of a chapter is over, he can hand out chronicle sheets to his players and himself. If the chronicle sheet is marked as tier 8-10, then the players' options are:

- Apply the chronicle immediately to a PFS PC of level 8-10.
- Assign the chronicle to a PFS PC of a lower level, then apply it immediately as soon as the PC reaches level 8.
- Apply the chronicle immediately to a 1st-level PFS PC, with the gold reward reduced to 1398 gp.

The GM can choose from the first two (the third isn't an option for GMs under the current rules).

I don't know of anything that says that the GM can't do the same thing. Typically, if the player can do it (other than day job rolls) then the GM can too.

Grand Lodge ****

Anthony DiDomenico wrote:
Paz wrote:

To be crystal clear, if a GM is running an adventure path campaign as a home game (not PFS rules), then once the sanctioned section of a chapter is over, he can hand out chronicle sheets to his players and himself. If the chronicle sheet is marked as tier 8-10, then the players' options are:

- Apply the chronicle immediately to a PFS PC of level 8-10.
- Assign the chronicle to a PFS PC of a lower level, then apply it immediately as soon as the PC reaches level 8.
- Apply the chronicle immediately to a 1st-level PFS PC, with the gold reward reduced to 1398 gp.

The GM can choose from the first two (the third isn't an option for GMs under the current rules).

I don't know of anything that says that the GM can't do the same thing. Typically, if the player can do it (other than day job rolls) then the GM can too.

The section about GM credit doesn't list that as an option. Only the player credit section does.

Shadow Lodge ***

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

It may not directly say it but I assume it to be implied. Heck, it was probably an oversight. Do you mean to tell me that the GM helping his local PFS community by volunteering is unable to apply his one time GM credit to a new character instead of having to wait to get a character to the minimum level? What if he did a lot of GMing and hardly ever played? He would then potentially have all of these saved up chronicles but could never take advantage of them because he has to play to get them to the appropriate level.

This makes no sense to me. Why would you not let the GM do something that the players can do? Is it really that big of a deal to not allow it?

Liberty's Edge ***** Venture-Agent, United Kingdom—England—Chester aka Paz

I'm just stating the rules in the Guide. I'm not trying to be mean to GMs; after all I am the GM, more often than not. I don't see anywhere that hints that GMs should have that option; to change that, it would take Mike Brock to update the Guide or issue a ruling that this option is allowed after all.

Bear in mind that players only assign credit to a different PC in the odd cases where they're playing a pregen or an adventure path in campaign mode. For GMs it's every session; maybe GMs routinely loading a bunch of tier 7-11 chronicles onto their 1st-level PCs wasn't desired behaviour.

Shadow Lodge ***

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Maybe, I personally don't see an issue with it. Of course this all started with talking about applying credit from running a home game AP which it is very possible the GM may not even have a PFS character. I'll bring it up to other VOs and see what they say.

Grand Lodge ****

It's something that's come up before on the forums and the consensus is that, currently, GMs cannot reduce the gold and apply a sheet to a level 1.

Silver Crusade *****

Jeff Merola wrote:
It's something that's come up before on the forums and the consensus is that, currently, GMs cannot reduce the gold and apply a sheet to a level 1.

Not yet anyway. I am hoping this will change in next years version of the guide. Currently I almost never apply high tier credit to a character, as I personally enjoy playing the most at levels 6+ and I hate hate hate level 1... so I'd love to be able to judge credit myself past level 1 many more times :)

Silver Crusade *****

I've got a few questions/points that I was hoping could be cleared up. I am currently playing in an AP in home game mode. I can apply the chronicles to different characters, correct? Can I apply those chronicles to a level one character, taking reduced gold? If so, does it matter what levels the original chronicle was for?

Thanks,
Mitch

Grand Lodge **** Venture-Agent, Nevada—Las Vegas aka kinevon

Anthony DiDomenico wrote:

It may not directly say it but I assume it to be implied. Heck, it was probably an oversight. Do you mean to tell me that the GM helping his local PFS community by volunteering is unable to apply his one time GM credit to a new character instead of having to wait to get a character to the minimum level? What if he did a lot of GMing and hardly ever played? He would then potentially have all of these saved up chronicles but could never take advantage of them because he has to play to get them to the appropriate level.

This makes no sense to me. Why would you not let the GM do something that the players can do? Is it really that big of a deal to not allow it?

Actually, if you GM a lot, you could easily have a PC in the rioght level range for most chronicles.

Between GMing and playing, I am only three star, but I have PCs from 1st level (with a single XP) to 13.2, at present. Heck, I currently have an 8th and 2 (3 on Saturday) 7th level PCs.

One of those 7th level PCs has only ever been played at 1st level, the second one has not been played since 3rd level. Player and GM credit, respectively, for Dragon's Demand in campaign mode, and GM credit for a 2-4 module on the first one in addition.

Liberty's Edge ***** Venture-Agent, United Kingdom—England—Chester aka Paz

UndeadMitch wrote:
I've got a few questions/points that I was hoping could be cleared up. I am currently playing in an AP in home game mode. I can apply the chronicles to different characters, correct?

Yes.

Quote:
Can I apply those chronicles to a level one character, taking reduced gold?

Yes, that's specifically permitted in the Guide. I believe that it's one of these chronicles per character though, as after the first one, they aren't 1st level any more.

Quote:
If so, does it matter what levels the original chronicle was for?

No, you still get the same boons.

Liberty's Edge *****

1 person marked this as a favorite.

GMs can apply the chronicles just like players. The oversight in language is just that: an oversight.

But there us no language that specifically says that in this one specific case a GM cannot assign a chronicle like a player.

Shadow Lodge *****

Andy, we don't need language to specify that we can't, we need language that says GMs can apply it. I don't remember any ruling by Mike, Mark, or John that said GMs can apply higher chronicle credit to a 1st level. Got a link to a ruling? Currently the guide does not allow for it.

Silver Crusade *****

From the Guide

Quote:
Alternatively, if you are participating in a Pathfinder Adventure Path with an ongoing group undertaking the entire, six-book campaign, you may receive credit for playing the sanctioned portions of the adventure as if you had played a pregenerated character.

So there's really no question in Home Game mode, you can apply it as if it were a pre-gen, including taking the level 1 reduction.

Quote:

All players receive a Chronicle sheet unless, at the GM’s discretion, they are replaying the module or Adventure Path for no credit. If a player uses an existing Pathfinder Society character for the adventure, he must apply the Chronicle sheet to that character immediately. A player who uses a pregenerated character must apply the Chronicle sheet to a 1st-level character or hold the Chronicle sheet until his character reaches the level of the pregenerated character.

A GM who runs a module may likewise apply the Chronicle sheet to one of her Pathfinder Society characters. The GM must decide which of her characters will receive the Chronicle sheet at the time when the module or sanctioned Adventure Path content is completed and the Chronicle sheets are filled out.

This is a little more tricky in terms of only playing the sanctioned portion, but I think that the "may likewise apply" indicates that the GM can apply credit the same as a player, including being able to apply the credit as if it were a pre-gen.

I think the confusion comes from the fact that normally in the case of a PFS scenario (as opposed to a module or AP), a GM cannot apply credit from a higher tier scenario (such as 3-7, 5-9 or 7-11) to a first level with reduced gold.

Dark Archive ****

Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Maybe I'm missing something, but I see multiple people mentioning that a chronicle sheet for a pregen can be applied to a level 1 character with reduced gold. Can someone point me to the post or language that says that? I see nothing in the Guide or the FAQ.

-Edit found it in the Guide... Reading comprehension fail...

The Exchange ****

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Katie, I usually apply the chronicle, but go slow progression. That way I still play the same amount, but I get nifty boons and junk.

Sczarni ****

Eric Clingenpeel wrote:
Andy, we don't need language to specify that we can't, we need language that says GMs can apply it. I don't remember any ruling by Mike, Mark, or John that said GMs can apply higher chronicle credit to a 1st level. Got a link to a ruling? Currently the guide does not allow for it.
Quote:

Alternatively, if you are participating in a Pathfinder

Adventure Path with an ongoing group undertaking the
entire, six-book campaign, you may receive credit for
playing the sanctioned portions of the adventure as if you
had played a pregenerated character

It'd make little sense that your players who aren't in a PFS game, get more benefit to their PFS characters than you do.

IE you GM'd it, but can't apply the chronicle until you're the right lvl, but your players can all apply it to a lvl 1 character with reduced gold (1,399)...

Grand Lodge *****

3 people marked this as FAQ candidate.
Andrew Christian wrote:

GMs can apply the chronicles just like players. The oversight in language is just that: an oversight.

But there us no language that specifically says that in this one specific case a GM cannot assign a chronicle like a player.

I completely agree with Andrew here. The fact that the Guide does not say GMs can convert Chronicles for 1st level PCs as players are allowed to do, is simply an oversight. It was always my understanding in reviewing the Guide for Mike that things should work the same, as much as possible, for players and GMs.

Pregens and GM credit work slightly different when applying Chronicles because pregens only exist at levels 1, 4 and 7 while GM PCs can be any level. So for pregens you apply the Chronicle when the PC reaches the level of the pregen. For GM credit you apply it when the PC reaches the lowest level of the adventure's tier. For PCs (getting GM credit) already in tier for the adventure, GMs must add the Chronicle to that PC's stack right away, at whatever level their PC is (in tier).

None of this should prevent GM's from converting the Chronicle for a level 1 PC. And I don't remember any discussion as to why GMs should not be allowed to do it. It was a simple oversight.

That said, it is not in the current rules for GMs, so until Mike posts a clarification, FAQ update, or releases a new version of the Guide with the change, technically, it's not in the rules.

Realistically, I can't imagine any GM doing an audit of a PC and invalidating it because of this.

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